Cannabis safety report
Discussion
Brave Fart said:
Meanwhile, those of you saying "the war on drugs is lost. Legalise it." Would you apply that logic to child sex abuse then, or burglary? "Let's make everything legal then the criminals will go away!"
The last thing society needs is more pyscho-active substance consumption. And don't give me that "what about alcohol?" argument. We are where we are with booze and tobacco, no going back. That is not an argument for relaxing the rules. See public health policy above.
Look at prohibition America & see what lessons can be learned from it.The last thing society needs is more pyscho-active substance consumption. And don't give me that "what about alcohol?" argument. We are where we are with booze and tobacco, no going back. That is not an argument for relaxing the rules. See public health policy above.
4Q said:
The massive red herring in many of the arguments is that people using drugs end up with mental health issues. More often than not it’s the other way around, often people with depression or with other psychological issues will use drugs (including alcohol btw) to self medicate.
Rather than self medicating,I would suggest they are making matters morse.Brave Fart said:
Well of course I have, and I mentioned diet. No government is going to allow smoking, eating or any other form of ingesting something currently illegal that would add to the list of "things that are bad for you". It would be a total reversal of public health policy.
Meanwhile, those of you saying "the war on drugs is lost. Legalise it." Would you apply that logic to child sex abuse then, or burglary? "Let's make everything legal then the criminals will go away!"
The last thing society needs is more pyscho-active substance consumption. And don't give me that "what about alcohol?" argument. We are where we are with booze and tobacco, no going back. That is not an argument for relaxing the rules. See public health policy above.
In 2017, a total of 7,697 people died from alcohol-specific causes in the UK, equivalent to 12.2 deaths per 100,000 population. Meanwhile, those of you saying "the war on drugs is lost. Legalise it." Would you apply that logic to child sex abuse then, or burglary? "Let's make everything legal then the criminals will go away!"
The last thing society needs is more pyscho-active substance consumption. And don't give me that "what about alcohol?" argument. We are where we are with booze and tobacco, no going back. That is not an argument for relaxing the rules. See public health policy above.
Deaths relating to weed 2017 - 29.
Kinda ends the argument there doesn't it. I'm pretty sure child sex abuse is far more devastating to the victim, family and society than Dave having a spliff on a Tuesday night in his house. I'd say its very comparable with me having a bottle of beer watching the football.
I don't smoke weed, but even I can't understand the logic people have against it but will get smashed on booze. I find this topic a bit like arguing about religion with someone.
smifffymoto said:
4Q said:
The massive red herring in many of the arguments is that people using drugs end up with mental health issues. More often than not it’s the other way around, often people with depression or with other psychological issues will use drugs (including alcohol btw) to self medicate.
Rather than self medicating,I would suggest they are making matters morse.FWIW I went through massive problems with my teenage son who was taking drugs and causing serious problems for the whole family, it wasn’t the drugs that were the problem, it was that he was a full on t
t. V6 Pushfit said:
Brave Fart said:
Well of course I have, and I mentioned diet. No government is going to allow smoking, eating or any other form of ingesting something currently illegal that would add to the list of "things that are bad for you". It would be a total reversal of public health policy.
Meanwhile, those of you saying "the war on drugs is lost. Legalise it." Would you apply that logic to child sex abuse then, or burglary? "Let's make everything legal then the criminals will go away!"
The last thing society needs is more pyscho-active substance consumption. And don't give me that "what about alcohol?" argument. We are where we are with booze and tobacco, no going back. That is not an argument for relaxing the rules. See public health policy above.
Very good summary thereMeanwhile, those of you saying "the war on drugs is lost. Legalise it." Would you apply that logic to child sex abuse then, or burglary? "Let's make everything legal then the criminals will go away!"
The last thing society needs is more pyscho-active substance consumption. And don't give me that "what about alcohol?" argument. We are where we are with booze and tobacco, no going back. That is not an argument for relaxing the rules. See public health policy above.
t summary. When you give cannabis use and sex crimes equivalent status your argument is null and void. j_4m said:
V6 Pushfit said:
Brave Fart said:
Well of course I have, and I mentioned diet. No government is going to allow smoking, eating or any other form of ingesting something currently illegal that would add to the list of "things that are bad for you". It would be a total reversal of public health policy.
Meanwhile, those of you saying "the war on drugs is lost. Legalise it." Would you apply that logic to child sex abuse then, or burglary? "Let's make everything legal then the criminals will go away!"
The last thing society needs is more pyscho-active substance consumption. And don't give me that "what about alcohol?" argument. We are where we are with booze and tobacco, no going back. That is not an argument for relaxing the rules. See public health policy above.
Very good summary thereMeanwhile, those of you saying "the war on drugs is lost. Legalise it." Would you apply that logic to child sex abuse then, or burglary? "Let's make everything legal then the criminals will go away!"
The last thing society needs is more pyscho-active substance consumption. And don't give me that "what about alcohol?" argument. We are where we are with booze and tobacco, no going back. That is not an argument for relaxing the rules. See public health policy above.
t summary. When you give cannabis use and sex crimes equivalent status your argument is null and void. Whats that saying? "If you only do what you have always done, you will only get what you have always had" in other words, nothing changes if you don't! The "war on drugs" is in a constant loop, alcohol continues to kill and cripple many thousands of people and families in this country alone, but it's fine because its legal and people love a good binge drink to settle the nerves on any given day
There are literally zero health benefits to alcohol, every-time a study is published saying a glass of red is good for "x" another study publishes another paper saying "actually that's wrong" yet we keep finding health benefits to cannabis (recreational to one side for a second) but no, cannabis bad, alcohol good! But hey, lets just ride that train into the station regardless.
4Q said:
The massive red herring in many of the arguments is that people using drugs end up with mental health issues. More often than not it’s the other way around, often people with depression or with other psychological issues will use drugs (including alcohol btw) to self medicate.
This. I love all the copy-paste-esque stories about "my friend had a single sniff of the marijunanas and now he's in a mental hospital under permanent guard because he went insane". Its like reading the propaganda back in the 60's and I like music from back then (I think I'll go listen to some rock and/or roll music backwards to hear the devil). Hashtag Jimi, Hashtag Nostalgia.
Sorry, but it doesn't work like that. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and take your stories at face value, however you never bothered to consider that they had the mental condition before taking a "single dose" of cannabis and was just successful at hiding it from you (or you never noticed). It's naive to lay the blame at a drug that they only tried once, that kind of thing really fails to be proved in controlled trials.
Intoxicants do not change you, they lower your inhibition so that all the things you're hiding about what you're really like come out. Its the same for Alcohol. Someone who is a nasty drunk is really a nasty sober person hiding their nastiness behind a facade of normalcy.
Besides, widespread Cannabis use is already here. If regular cases of pot based psychosis were a real issue we'd have enough data to prove it by now and I mean from overall use, not just single use. Better off decriminalising and taxing.
These threads always make me chuckle...i've been a daily "user" for 2 years, i've never touched any other drug, nor do i smoke tobacco, nor am i ruining my life, in any way shape or form.
I'm employed full time as an engineer, married, and socially well adjusted... and if you passed me in the street I highly, highly doubt any outdated "druggie" misconceptions would cross your mind at all.
Not everyone that smokes cannabis is a 20 year old benefits claimant who goes on start a class A drug habit, or develop a mental illness....amazing as that may be to grasp. In much the same way that not everyone who drinks is an alcoholic...people don't seem to be able to make this distinction, maybe it's an age/generational thing?
That said, I think when legalised in the UK, it should have a 21 or over limit placed, as smoking a lot in your teens has been shown to have negative impact on brain development.
I'm employed full time as an engineer, married, and socially well adjusted... and if you passed me in the street I highly, highly doubt any outdated "druggie" misconceptions would cross your mind at all.
Not everyone that smokes cannabis is a 20 year old benefits claimant who goes on start a class A drug habit, or develop a mental illness....amazing as that may be to grasp. In much the same way that not everyone who drinks is an alcoholic...people don't seem to be able to make this distinction, maybe it's an age/generational thing?
That said, I think when legalised in the UK, it should have a 21 or over limit placed, as smoking a lot in your teens has been shown to have negative impact on brain development.
TBH, I do blame the media a lot for the propaganda on drugs.
Look at Ecstasy, deaths are just into double digits each year. The second some young lass dies on a night out from underlying health issues or being a stupid and not drinking enough fluids whilst sweating their arse off in a club it's front page news.
Some years it kills as much as 17. Paracetamol deaths are 20 times higher typically.
If an alien came to earth and asked why a substance like this or hash is banned and alcohol isn't you'd have a fking hard time justifying it.
Look at Ecstasy, deaths are just into double digits each year. The second some young lass dies on a night out from underlying health issues or being a stupid
and not drinking enough fluids whilst sweating their arse off in a club it's front page news. Some years it kills as much as 17. Paracetamol deaths are 20 times higher typically.
If an alien came to earth and asked why a substance like this or hash is banned and alcohol isn't you'd have a f
king hard time justifying it. Aphex said:
designforlife said:
not everyone who drinks is an alcoholic...people don't seem to be able to make this distinction, maybe it's an age/generational thing?
What about someone that drank every day for two years 
Just because i smoke most days, doesn't mean i smoke so much that i lie there in a heap surrounded by discarded snacks unable to function....again with the misconceptions.
On an average evening at home i'm cooking dinner, playing xbox with the wife, sorting out ebay bits and pieces, doing stuff to the car in the warmer months, occasionally painting acrylics, and often still doing bits for work.
I have also gone 3-4 month stretches without smoking at all, it's not something i find particularly hard to pick up and put down.
designforlife said:
Plenty of people drink 3, 4, 5 days a week or more...does 1 beer a night 4 nights a week make you an alcoholic? Does not drinking in the week then going out on saturday night and drinking 8 or 9 pints every week make you an alcoholic?
Just because i smoke most days, doesn't mean i smoke so much that i lie there in a heap surrounded by discarded snacks unable to function....again with the misconceptions.
You're the one bringing up the misconceptions, not me. I was questioning if there is a link between drinking everyday and smoking everyday in terms of addiction. Just because i smoke most days, doesn't mean i smoke so much that i lie there in a heap surrounded by discarded snacks unable to function....again with the misconceptions.
i personally see smoking everyday the same as drinking everyday and would be worried about the addiction factor.
For the record, I'm in favour of legalisation and for people to consume however much they want
The two primary reasons for legalisation remain control and taxation.
if it's legal then we can control it and instead of the money from drugs going to organised crime it could be used to pay for the NHS.
Also, let's not forget, at the end of the day we are talking about a plant.
A fking plant.
It grows wild all over the world. (Perhaps proving the theory of a higher God)
if it's legal then we can control it and instead of the money from drugs going to organised crime it could be used to pay for the NHS.
Also, let's not forget, at the end of the day we are talking about a plant.
A f
king plant. It grows wild all over the world. (Perhaps proving the theory of a higher God)
Brave Fart said:
dvs_dave said:
I presume you’ve not heard of edibles then? One of the biggest formats for consumption in markets where it’s been legalised. No risk of any smoking related complications with that.
Well of course I have, and I mentioned diet. No government is going to allow smoking, eating or any other form of ingesting something currently illegal that would add to the list of "things that are bad for you". It would be a total reversal of public health policy.Meanwhile, those of you saying "the war on drugs is lost. Legalise it." Would you apply that logic to child sex abuse then, or burglary? "Let's make everything legal then the criminals will go away!"
The last thing society needs is more pyscho-active substance consumption. And don't give me that "what about alcohol?" argument. We are where we are with booze and tobacco, no going back. That is not an argument for relaxing the rules. See public health policy above.
Except it’s not really it’s just years ago people smoked solid Hasish that was mainly imported or ty grass, but now most people just grow weed over hear it’s just more freely available now than it ever was, skunk has always been around just was a bit st to export as it stinks to high heaven, were as hashis ty sticks doesn’t smell anywhere as stinky as skunk so was the easiest to import/export without being found so easy
t to export as it stinks to high heaven, were as hashis ty sticks doesn’t smell anywhere as stinky as skunk so was the easiest to import/export without being found so easy moanthebairns said:
Brave Fart said:
Well of course I have, and I mentioned diet. No government is going to allow smoking, eating or any other form of ingesting something currently illegal that would add to the list of "things that are bad for you". It would be a total reversal of public health policy.
Meanwhile, those of you saying "the war on drugs is lost. Legalise it." Would you apply that logic to child sex abuse then, or burglary? "Let's make everything legal then the criminals will go away!"
The last thing society needs is more pyscho-active substance consumption. And don't give me that "what about alcohol?" argument. We are where we are with booze and tobacco, no going back. That is not an argument for relaxing the rules. See public health policy above.
In 2017, a total of 7,697 people died from alcohol-specific causes in the UK, equivalent to 12.2 deaths per 100,000 population. Meanwhile, those of you saying "the war on drugs is lost. Legalise it." Would you apply that logic to child sex abuse then, or burglary? "Let's make everything legal then the criminals will go away!"
The last thing society needs is more pyscho-active substance consumption. And don't give me that "what about alcohol?" argument. We are where we are with booze and tobacco, no going back. That is not an argument for relaxing the rules. See public health policy above.
Deaths relating to weed 2017 - 29.
Kinda ends the argument there doesn't it. I'm pretty sure child sex abuse is far more devastating to the victim, family and society than Dave having a spliff on a Tuesday night in his house. I'd say its very comparable with me having a bottle of beer watching the football.
I don't smoke weed, but even I can't understand the logic people have against it but will get smashed on booze. I find this topic a bit like arguing about religion with someone.
I wouldn't get smashed on booze (I have more sense) but I do drink alcohol, always have - and that's with a background of having a mum who became alcoholic (didn't kill her, cancer did).
Moderation doesn't kill you when talking alcohol, but the weed brigade always point to alcohol as the drug that's worse. You're quoting people who have died. Nobody I ever met in my long life to date ever died after there first pint, or second, or third. Yet I have 2 close immediate family members, one my sis's son (who incidentally, neither of whom has died - yet) whose lives have been totally and utterly f
ked after just taking weed the once. If it weren't for his mum and dad, he probably would be dead now. Trouble is the both love him (they would, wouldn't they being his parents) but a long stretch of their lives has been taking up with him and the troubles and police involvement. How did it happen? He managed just 2 weeks at Southampton Uni, 6 had taken weed, the same weed, two of them went off the rails (he was one) the rest no problem (except with the police who were called in).The other is a nephew, great guitarist, who has recently weened himself of his prescription ADs, but is back home with his parents and lives a lonely sheltered life virtually in his room where he plays his guitar (brilliantly, I might add). He has a part time job, but is vacant in thought. He won't start a conversation unless you do. No communication with parents about his life. For example he has a shrink. 'How did it go today' one of them will ask him. A shrug and 'ok' is as much as they get. Again, a life f
ked from taking weed when younger.That's the problem with drugs - I saw enough of them in the 60s although encountered very few who actually took them - invariably it was the hippy type or band rock group members. One drummer I knew in a local band was utterly screwed after a cocktail of purple hearts and we think lsd. He'd have been 70 this month. He made 29. I apply almost the same to prescription drugs - as with illegal, they can have a vast difference in effect after just one take. I was away with the fairies after taking Tramadol, which is sort of funny having been a 60s teenager. My Misses still says she thought I had gone nuts - called the doc who promptly ordered her to ensure I took not one more!
My bro in law was put on Tram, had no effect other than made him sleep.
A friend was prescribed AD's, and after the first tablet promptly jumped off a bridge into a river, luckily surviving but having no idea why they did it, got back in their car and arrived like a drowned rat, sobbing their heart out. Quickly prescribed an alternative by GP. Strange thing is when put on an alternative it worked for them, they're still on ADs to this day almost 8 years on.
Bill, he has a drink or two of alcohol down our local. He has every right to. His daughter (well, the youngest, 17 - or was!) took just one ecstasy tablet at a party. Dead. End of. Tell him alcohol is as dangerous. I doubt you'd be upright for long.
Another incident: I helped out a friend of mine at his business about 18 yrs ago which I regularly did back then when my work load was short. He'd got in this young problematic lad and agreed to help him turn a corner. He'd been out of work, for a few months, also had girl trouble and faced a gang lot mocking him. He settled in well and I actually got on with him like a house on fire. He just needed some understanding. At heart he was just young and needed some wise shoulders to help him. He'd be anxious at leaving time in case one of the gang lot were waiting for him, they shout obscenities if he left alone. I drove him home on occasion. After one episode with them he was visibly upset and the next morning our stupid secretary suggested he see his doc. The GP prescribed him ADs. I got into work on this Friday morning and was surprised he hadn't turned up (he was conscientious if nothing else and one of the first always in.) I asked the boss to ring his mum. She said he'd left early and mentioned he seemed strange after taking his meds. Nobody knew where he was. Until a copper came in midday and took his helmet off. He had some bad news. Young lad had decided to walk to the railway line... 18 years old. What a f way to go! Of course, the ADs were never mentioned as a factor.
f
k drugs. Illegal or prescription (unless with proper supervision).I'll have a pint of Guinness again this evening. It will do me no f
king harm - whatsoever. Nothing in moderation does. Except drugs. Now that's the roulette wheel spinning.I have been smoking for 30yrs - growing for (just myself) for 20 but stopped for no particular reason a couple of years ago.
Cannabis is unregulated in this country due to its illegal status.
Criminal gangs have been spraying their weed with Smack solutions, LSD and more recently dusting/spraying with spice.
This type of thing has been going on for years. People were injecting stems of cannabis plants with smack before harvest in the early 90s.
It will be interesting to see data from the US States in a few years to see if the introduction of regulated cannabis from licensed producers has any effect on the cases of psychosis linked to cannabis use. But no doubt it will take years for the numbers to settle due to it being in infancy.
All these studies are flawed until the test/study material (cannabis) is a known quantity/composition.
We should wait it out here and see how the US gets on.
Just legalising it would be catastrophic imo
Cannabis is unregulated in this country due to its illegal status.
Criminal gangs have been spraying their weed with Smack solutions, LSD and more recently dusting/spraying with spice.
This type of thing has been going on for years. People were injecting stems of cannabis plants with smack before harvest in the early 90s.
It will be interesting to see data from the US States in a few years to see if the introduction of regulated cannabis from licensed producers has any effect on the cases of psychosis linked to cannabis use. But no doubt it will take years for the numbers to settle due to it being in infancy.
All these studies are flawed until the test/study material (cannabis) is a known quantity/composition.
We should wait it out here and see how the US gets on.
Just legalising it would be catastrophic imo
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