Uk Council tax,. Reform. Needed?

Uk Council tax,. Reform. Needed?

Author
Discussion

PorkRind

Original Poster:

3,053 posts

205 months

Monday 18th February 2019
quotequote all
I live in a fairly large house. 6 bed. It's me the gf and my old man who I look after. My council tax bill is 2500 a year which I think is ridiculous. I think this because of the further issues: 1 surely it should based on number of people in a property the council are collecting refuse, providing police ambulance and fire to, light the streets for etc. It'd not been reformed since 1991 and think just because I'm fortunate enough to have a large ish house in an average town in the southwest I don't really feel I'm Getting my moneys worth. Would a reform of such a tax cause a fall out hence its not been Looked at for so long?

Edited by PorkRind on Monday 18th February 01:47

Bullett

10,886 posts

184 months

Monday 18th February 2019
quotequote all
They tried a personal local tax. It didn't go very well.

Reform only ever results in prices going up for those who pay but use few services.

PorkRind

Original Poster:

3,053 posts

205 months

Monday 18th February 2019
quotequote all
Bullett said:
They tried a personal local tax. It didn't go very well.

Reform only ever results in prices going up for those who pay but use few services.
I've only been a home owner for 4 years so not aware of the historic reforms. Will. Need to do some more reading..

Pesty

42,655 posts

256 months

Monday 18th February 2019
quotequote all
PorkRind said:
Bullett said:
They tried a personal local tax. It didn't go very well.

Reform only ever results in prices going up for those who pay but use few services.
I've only been a home owner for 4 years so not aware of the historic reforms. Will. Need to do some more reading..
I was around at the time but can’t for the life of me remember why it was a bad idea. Probably just because it was thatcher in government at the time.

Seemed to make sense but apparently it was bad.

I remember shortly after my council taxes went up through the roof.


Here some light reading. Think I’ll read it too as it’s all faded from my memory.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poll_tax_riots

Guvernator

13,156 posts

165 months

Monday 18th February 2019
quotequote all
Pesty said:
I was around at the time but can’t for the life of me remember why it was a bad idea. Probably just because it was thatcher in government at the time.

Seemed to make sense but apparently it was bad.

I remember shortly after my council taxes went up through the roof.


Here some light reading. Think I’ll read it too as it’s all faded from my memory.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poll_tax_riots
It was bad because it meant people couldn't live 10 in a house while getting away with not having to pay for council services. Add in the fact that it was Thatcher and the great unwashed and those with too much time on their hands came out in droves to oppose it.

I do think we pay far too much Council tax on top of what we already pay via other taxes, especially seeing as most councils are pretty useless. When I tell my friends overseas that we pay central AND, local taxes they look at me like I'm from another planet.

PorkRind

Original Poster:

3,053 posts

205 months

Monday 18th February 2019
quotequote all
Pesty said:
PorkRind said:
Bullett said:
They tried a personal local tax. It didn't go very well.

Reform only ever results in prices going up for those who pay but use few services.
I've only been a home owner for 4 years so not aware of the historic reforms. Will. Need to do some more reading..
I was around at the time but can’t for the life of me remember why it was a bad idea. Probably just because it was thatcher in government at the time.

Seemed to make sense but apparently it was bad.

I remember shortly after my council taxes went up through the roof.


Here some light reading. Think I’ll read it too as it’s all faded from my memory.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poll_tax_riots
Thanks. After reading that I say bring back the poll tax!

Edited by PorkRind on Monday 18th February 01:51

GT03ROB

13,262 posts

221 months

Monday 18th February 2019
quotequote all
Guvernator said:
It was bad because it meant people couldn't live 10 in a house while getting away with not having to pay for council services. Add in the fact that it was Thatcher and the great unwashed and those with too much time on their hands came out in droves to oppose it.
Kind of sums it up!

It was a disaster for Thatcher & nobody has nor will go near it again in the forseeable future.

People forget how much it is. Modest houses around me carry charges in excess of 3k a year. Crazy

RobXjcoupe

3,171 posts

91 months

Monday 18th February 2019
quotequote all
£2500 a year for 6 beds isn’t bad. Mine is currently £2200 for a 3 bed.

abzmike

8,377 posts

106 months

Monday 18th February 2019
quotequote all
Be careful what you wish for. ‘Reform’ rarely results in a better outcome. To my eyes a local income tax - charged through HMRC - would strip out an expensive and cumbersome apparatus. Of course it would be open to abuse by those that manage their personal income tax creatively within the existing rules. Better to reform the whole lot, but that isn’t going to happen.

JagLover

42,406 posts

235 months

Monday 18th February 2019
quotequote all
Guvernator said:
I do think we pay far too much Council tax on top of what we already pay via other taxes, especially seeing as most councils are pretty useless. When I tell my friends overseas that we pay central AND, local taxes they look at me like I'm from another planet.
It is quite common to pay both?, they do in America for example.

Sadly for the opening poster the only likely "reform" in the short term is something like an extra band that may leave him paying more.

Sheepshanks

32,757 posts

119 months

Monday 18th February 2019
quotequote all
Guvernator said:
When I tell my friends overseas that we pay central AND, local taxes they look at me like I'm from another planet.
They’re probably wondering what you’re on about - pretty well every country has some kind of property tax.

BRR

1,846 posts

172 months

Monday 18th February 2019
quotequote all
The chances of getting it reformed on the basis of people that are fortunate enough to live in 6 bedroom houses feeling like they pay too much is never going to happen. Even if it was logically the right thing to do the government are never going to introduce a policy that benefits the wealthy few and costs the rest, it would be political suicide

motco

15,956 posts

246 months

Monday 18th February 2019
quotequote all
The Lib Dems had a policy of introducing local income tax instead of council tax. That seemed to die the death in very short order for some reason.

WyrleyD

1,902 posts

148 months

Monday 18th February 2019
quotequote all
Please don't lose sight of what you are paying your council tax for:

1. Council Staff Pensions liabilities

2. Council Staff salaries

3. err... and then any services that they deem that they can provide after paying for the above.

A councillor friend of mine says that it won't be long before all that they can provide will be statutory services as number 1 above is getting bigger and bigger and Central Government Grants are getting smaller and smaller so council tax payers will have to fund the difference somehow although rises are also limited by law; something will have to give because councils cannot go on like they are without removing more and more services or going bust.

Eric Mc

122,029 posts

265 months

Monday 18th February 2019
quotequote all
PorkRind said:
Bullett said:
They tried a personal local tax. It didn't go very well.

Reform only ever results in prices going up for those who pay but use few services.
I've only been a home owner for 4 years so not aware of the historic reforms. Will. Need to do some more reading..
Resulted in riots in London and a massive boost for the call for Scottish independence. Be very aware of unintended consequences.

I cannot think of a single incidence where a major tax reform did not result in people paying more tax.

Eric Mc

122,029 posts

265 months

Monday 18th February 2019
quotequote all
motco said:
The Lib Dems had a policy of introducing local income tax instead of council tax. That seemed to die the death in very short order for some reason.
Administering local income tax within small local administrative areas (i.e. local authorities) is nightmarish and nigh on impossible.

768

13,680 posts

96 months

Monday 18th February 2019
quotequote all
A 6 bed house probably should be paying more in for some of what council tax pays for. Unless you only want half the house saved from fire.

As above, I pay about £2400 for a 4 bed, I think the OP's on to a winner. Council tax rates seem high to me in general but I don't have a big problem with the distribution of them, you can always move to a smaller house if you think that's going to save you anything.

Dindoit

1,645 posts

94 months

Monday 18th February 2019
quotequote all
UK budget deficit is down from the days of us running at £100Bn but we still have a deficit. The country needs money, obviously. That money is collected though taxes, obviously. Those taxes should be something other people pay, obviously.

Congrats on your 6 bed house. I only have 4 beds and pay more than you.

recordman

386 posts

125 months

Monday 18th February 2019
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Move to Kensington & Chelsea. Band H = £2246

oyster

12,595 posts

248 months

Monday 18th February 2019
quotequote all
OP, it’s a tax not a service charge.

Your local/county council budget is freely and easily available to view online.

The band, and therefore the charge, would have been clear as mud before you bought your property.