Uk Council tax,. Reform. Needed?
Discussion
I live in a fairly large house. 6 bed. It's me the gf and my old man who I look after. My council tax bill is 2500 a year which I think is ridiculous. I think this because of the further issues: 1 surely it should based on number of people in a property the council are collecting refuse, providing police ambulance and fire to, light the streets for etc. It'd not been reformed since 1991 and think just because I'm fortunate enough to have a large ish house in an average town in the southwest I don't really feel I'm Getting my moneys worth. Would a reform of such a tax cause a fall out hence its not been Looked at for so long?
Edited by PorkRind on Monday 18th February 01:47
PorkRind said:
Bullett said:
They tried a personal local tax. It didn't go very well.
Reform only ever results in prices going up for those who pay but use few services.
I've only been a home owner for 4 years so not aware of the historic reforms. Will. Need to do some more reading.. Reform only ever results in prices going up for those who pay but use few services.
Seemed to make sense but apparently it was bad.
I remember shortly after my council taxes went up through the roof.
Here some light reading. Think I’ll read it too as it’s all faded from my memory.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poll_tax_riots
Pesty said:
I was around at the time but can’t for the life of me remember why it was a bad idea. Probably just because it was thatcher in government at the time.
Seemed to make sense but apparently it was bad.
I remember shortly after my council taxes went up through the roof.
Here some light reading. Think I’ll read it too as it’s all faded from my memory.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poll_tax_riots
It was bad because it meant people couldn't live 10 in a house while getting away with not having to pay for council services. Add in the fact that it was Thatcher and the great unwashed and those with too much time on their hands came out in droves to oppose it.Seemed to make sense but apparently it was bad.
I remember shortly after my council taxes went up through the roof.
Here some light reading. Think I’ll read it too as it’s all faded from my memory.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poll_tax_riots
I do think we pay far too much Council tax on top of what we already pay via other taxes, especially seeing as most councils are pretty useless. When I tell my friends overseas that we pay central AND, local taxes they look at me like I'm from another planet.
Pesty said:
PorkRind said:
Bullett said:
They tried a personal local tax. It didn't go very well.
Reform only ever results in prices going up for those who pay but use few services.
I've only been a home owner for 4 years so not aware of the historic reforms. Will. Need to do some more reading.. Reform only ever results in prices going up for those who pay but use few services.
Seemed to make sense but apparently it was bad.
I remember shortly after my council taxes went up through the roof.
Here some light reading. Think I’ll read it too as it’s all faded from my memory.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poll_tax_riots
Edited by PorkRind on Monday 18th February 01:51
Guvernator said:
It was bad because it meant people couldn't live 10 in a house while getting away with not having to pay for council services. Add in the fact that it was Thatcher and the great unwashed and those with too much time on their hands came out in droves to oppose it.
Kind of sums it up! It was a disaster for Thatcher & nobody has nor will go near it again in the forseeable future.
People forget how much it is. Modest houses around me carry charges in excess of 3k a year. Crazy
Be careful what you wish for. ‘Reform’ rarely results in a better outcome. To my eyes a local income tax - charged through HMRC - would strip out an expensive and cumbersome apparatus. Of course it would be open to abuse by those that manage their personal income tax creatively within the existing rules. Better to reform the whole lot, but that isn’t going to happen.
Guvernator said:
I do think we pay far too much Council tax on top of what we already pay via other taxes, especially seeing as most councils are pretty useless. When I tell my friends overseas that we pay central AND, local taxes they look at me like I'm from another planet.
It is quite common to pay both?, they do in America for example.Sadly for the opening poster the only likely "reform" in the short term is something like an extra band that may leave him paying more.
The chances of getting it reformed on the basis of people that are fortunate enough to live in 6 bedroom houses feeling like they pay too much is never going to happen. Even if it was logically the right thing to do the government are never going to introduce a policy that benefits the wealthy few and costs the rest, it would be political suicide
Please don't lose sight of what you are paying your council tax for:
1. Council Staff Pensions liabilities
2. Council Staff salaries
3. err... and then any services that they deem that they can provide after paying for the above.
A councillor friend of mine says that it won't be long before all that they can provide will be statutory services as number 1 above is getting bigger and bigger and Central Government Grants are getting smaller and smaller so council tax payers will have to fund the difference somehow although rises are also limited by law; something will have to give because councils cannot go on like they are without removing more and more services or going bust.
1. Council Staff Pensions liabilities
2. Council Staff salaries
3. err... and then any services that they deem that they can provide after paying for the above.
A councillor friend of mine says that it won't be long before all that they can provide will be statutory services as number 1 above is getting bigger and bigger and Central Government Grants are getting smaller and smaller so council tax payers will have to fund the difference somehow although rises are also limited by law; something will have to give because councils cannot go on like they are without removing more and more services or going bust.
PorkRind said:
Bullett said:
They tried a personal local tax. It didn't go very well.
Reform only ever results in prices going up for those who pay but use few services.
I've only been a home owner for 4 years so not aware of the historic reforms. Will. Need to do some more reading.. Reform only ever results in prices going up for those who pay but use few services.
I cannot think of a single incidence where a major tax reform did not result in people paying more tax.
motco said:
The Lib Dems had a policy of introducing local income tax instead of council tax. That seemed to die the death in very short order for some reason.
Administering local income tax within small local administrative areas (i.e. local authorities) is nightmarish and nigh on impossible.A 6 bed house probably should be paying more in for some of what council tax pays for. Unless you only want half the house saved from fire.
As above, I pay about £2400 for a 4 bed, I think the OP's on to a winner. Council tax rates seem high to me in general but I don't have a big problem with the distribution of them, you can always move to a smaller house if you think that's going to save you anything.
As above, I pay about £2400 for a 4 bed, I think the OP's on to a winner. Council tax rates seem high to me in general but I don't have a big problem with the distribution of them, you can always move to a smaller house if you think that's going to save you anything.
UK budget deficit is down from the days of us running at £100Bn but we still have a deficit. The country needs money, obviously. That money is collected though taxes, obviously. Those taxes should be something other people pay, obviously.
Congrats on your 6 bed house. I only have 4 beds and pay more than you.
Congrats on your 6 bed house. I only have 4 beds and pay more than you.
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