Uk Council tax,. Reform. Needed?
Discussion
GT03ROB said:
Guvernator said:
It was bad because it meant people couldn't live 10 in a house while getting away with not having to pay for council services. Add in the fact that it was Thatcher and the great unwashed and those with too much time on their hands came out in droves to oppose it.
Kind of sums it up! It was a disaster for Thatcher & nobody has nor will go near it again in the forseeable future.
People forget how much it is. Modest houses around me carry charges in excess of 3k a year. Crazy
He’s assuming that those who turned up to protest were (a) only “the great unwashed” and (b) the only people affected. Even if (a) is correct, (b) certainly isn’t.
The whole system needs massive reform and by that I mean taxation. I remember poll tax - I was 19 and had just started work. Unlike many of my friends I supported the idea. The concept of paying for local services (bin collection, education , social care etc) seemed common sense to me even if I did not use all of the services at some point I would and that would change as I went through my life. I was 19 and earning why should my parents pay for my rubblish to be collected now ? Mrs T had realised that soemthing needed to be done and that all individuals should pay their fair share. Simple maths means that the burnden is less whe the maximum contribution is made. £39 amonth at the time £10 a week did not seem unreasonable to me. Th irony at the time was that the most vocal were the ones that would not have have to pay it !
Anyway the rest is history and we are where we are with an increasing number not contributing and also sapping local councils income. I dont know what the answer is though. Simplistcially and in terms of collection I would increase income tax and scrap local tax making coucils a grant for 100%. The coucil here is not capable of dealing with the budget and is extremely wasteful in most tax payers eyes.
The alternative proposed by Labout is silly. I have worked hard all my life and have a nice place with 10 acres or so - It was suggested to me that I might need to pay £13.5k a year under their proposals - where on earth they think thats coming from and how people like me can afford it is beyond me. Taxed for working hard, saving and being self sufficient and not a burden oh and having an elderly dependant living with us saving the local authority £750/£1000 a week - what a reward.
Anyway the rest is history and we are where we are with an increasing number not contributing and also sapping local councils income. I dont know what the answer is though. Simplistcially and in terms of collection I would increase income tax and scrap local tax making coucils a grant for 100%. The coucil here is not capable of dealing with the budget and is extremely wasteful in most tax payers eyes.
The alternative proposed by Labout is silly. I have worked hard all my life and have a nice place with 10 acres or so - It was suggested to me that I might need to pay £13.5k a year under their proposals - where on earth they think thats coming from and how people like me can afford it is beyond me. Taxed for working hard, saving and being self sufficient and not a burden oh and having an elderly dependant living with us saving the local authority £750/£1000 a week - what a reward.
Eric Mc said:
motco said:
The Lib Dems had a policy of introducing local income tax instead of council tax. That seemed to die the death in very short order for some reason.
Administering local income tax within small local administrative areas (i.e. local authorities) is nightmarish and nigh on impossible.Ziplobb said:
I have worked hard all my life and have a nice place with 10 acres or so - It was suggested to me that I might need to pay £13.5k a year under their proposals - where on earth they think thats coming from and how people like me can afford it is beyond me. Taxed for working hard, saving and being self sufficient and not a burden oh and having an elderly dependant living with us saving the local authority £750/£1000 a week - what a reward.
Exactly so. Unfortunately socialists are only happy while they have someone else's money to spend. Incapable of creating wealth themselves, they will keep on taxing those that are.Integroo said:
That's such a minor problem as not to be worth worryif about. There are very few destitute pensioners living in million pound houses. For those view that do exist, liability can be rolled up and collected from estate on death.
Yet it’s not. Plenty of places modest 3 bed semis are &1m or there about. Loved there all their lives paid mortgage off 30 years++ ago. They have state pension plus work pension but it’s really not a lot they cannot afford overseas annual holidays.
Now lump on £20-50k annual extra land tax... where does that come from? Also they would be fire selling too to meet the tax deadline an the purchaser might really think twice about it.
Imagine the prospect that the govt had decided Dorris house was a £1m pad so £25k a year. But when it sells (to fund the tax) it’s actually £670k or less taking it below the govt banding... does Dorris then sell or challenge the govt that her house isn’t a £1m that the govt said it was
NDA said:
PorkRind said:
I live in a fairly large house. 6 bed. It's me the gf and my old man who I look after. My council tax bill is 2500 a year which I think is ridiculous. I think this because of the further issues: 1 surely it should based on number of people in a property the council are collecting refuse, providing police ambulance and fire to, light the streets for etc. It'd not been reformed since 1991 and think just because I'm fortunate enough to have a large ish house in an average town in the southwest I don't really feel I'm Getting my moneys worth. Would a reform of such a tax cause a fall out hence its not been Looked at for so long?
I pay about £10 a day in Council Tax (the highest rate) - and yet I use the same two wheelie bins as everyone else. A house nearby pays about half and they have 7 people living there - there's only 2 in my house. But because I have some land, a swimming pool etc then I pay more because my rubbish must be heavier or something. There is no rationale.It is not a fair system - but there is absolutely no chance of it changing. So you have to just suck it up.
If the mentalists get in, it will in fact get worse - McDonnell is very keen to punish anyone even vaguely successful and if you own a nice house, he will be coming after you.
I’m in the same position as you (I lie, I have 3 trash bins and 2 recycling bins) but the reality is that if you have a nice house the difference in CT is relative pennies. If the ‘unfairness’ eats you up you still have the choice to move somewhere smaller or invite a load of in-laws to live with you!
Wealth/property tax is a concern but, as ever, the devil is in the detail.
markymarkthree said:
XCP said:
Eric Mc said:
Resulted in riots in London and a massive boost for the call for Scottish independence. Be very aware of unintended consequences.
I cannot think of a single incidence where a major tax reform did not result in people paying more tax.
My wife and I paid less under poll tax. I cannot think of a single incidence where a major tax reform did not result in people paying more tax.
Our neighbours, with 3 adults working obviously paid more.
Seemed fair to me at the time. Still does in fact.
selmahoose said:
farmergiles80 said:
1. You can read the forum before you’ve joined it.
2. He’s done it on more than one occasion in the last 3 weeks (despite berating others for doing the same).
Sid’s latest alias busted (again)??2. He’s done it on more than one occasion in the last 3 weeks (despite berating others for doing the same).
CT reform is definitely needed, just not along the lines the OP suggests..
You're all in denial about LVT as the best option..
Normally, proposals from the ASI, IEA et al get support on NP&E.. so why not this one?
Abolish SDLT, BR, CT, reduce consumption & income taxes & shift taxation onto land.
You're all in denial about LVT as the best option..
Normally, proposals from the ASI, IEA et al get support on NP&E.. so why not this one?
Abolish SDLT, BR, CT, reduce consumption & income taxes & shift taxation onto land.
selmahoose]ntegroo said:
Yes it should be reformed. It is meant to be in line with property prices - it isn't. Owners should pay, not tenants. /quote]
Why shouldn’t tenants pay towards the local services they use?
Landlords tend to be wealthier than renters. It is not only the tenant that benefits from things like the fire service - the landlord also doesn't want their property to burn down. Landlords can pass the council tax burden to their tenants through increased rents, though evidence suggests that they wouldn't be able to pass it all down. Why shouldn’t tenants pay towards the local services they use?
Edited by Integroo on Monday 18th February 09:57
Welshbeef said:
Yet it’s not.
Plenty of places modest 3 bed semis are &1m or there about. Loved there all their lives paid mortgage off 30 years++ ago. They have state pension plus work pension but it’s really not a lot they cannot afford overseas annual holidays.
Now lump on £20-50k annual extra land tax... where does that come from? Also they would be fire selling too to meet the tax deadline an the purchaser might really think twice about it.
Imagine the prospect that the govt had decided Dorris house was a £1m pad so £25k a year. But when it sells (to fund the tax) it’s actually £670k or less taking it below the govt banding... does Dorris then sell or challenge the govt that her house isn’t a £1m that the govt said it was
I dispute the large number of penniless pensioners living in million pound houses, but leaving that aside, the proposed solution is it is rolled up each year (based on its value that year) and paid out of her estate on death.Plenty of places modest 3 bed semis are &1m or there about. Loved there all their lives paid mortgage off 30 years++ ago. They have state pension plus work pension but it’s really not a lot they cannot afford overseas annual holidays.
Now lump on £20-50k annual extra land tax... where does that come from? Also they would be fire selling too to meet the tax deadline an the purchaser might really think twice about it.
Imagine the prospect that the govt had decided Dorris house was a £1m pad so £25k a year. But when it sells (to fund the tax) it’s actually £670k or less taking it below the govt banding... does Dorris then sell or challenge the govt that her house isn’t a £1m that the govt said it was
Pesty said:
Integroo said:
It's a tax, it's not paying for services. It should operate that the better off pay more. It currently doesn't.
7 people in one house more than likely earn more as a totally and certainly use more services.What do you propose?
NDA said:
Ziplobb said:
I have worked hard all my life and have a nice place with 10 acres or so - It was suggested to me that I might need to pay £13.5k a year under their proposals - where on earth they think thats coming from and how people like me can afford it is beyond me. Taxed for working hard, saving and being self sufficient and not a burden oh and having an elderly dependant living with us saving the local authority £750/£1000 a week - what a reward.
Exactly so. Unfortunately socialists are only happy while they have someone else's money to spend. Incapable of creating wealth themselves, they will keep on taxing those that are.Integroo said:
Landlords tend to be wealther than renters. It is not only the tenant that benefits from things like the fire service - the landlord also doesn't want their property to burn down. Landlords can pass the council tax burden to their tenants through increased rents, though evidence suggests that they wouldn't be able to pass it all down.
What evidence?chow pan toon said:
He doesn't even try to hide it does he? I'm not sure what it says about the character of someone who keeps getting banned that they keep signing up again. Get the hint ffs!
Ha ha ha! Actually he’s got yet another one running ready to use when “the farmer” gets booted...... Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff