Is this homophobia dressed up as parents' rights?
Discussion
Previous said:
My first thought was that there is a little irony here, in that a group which, at least in the narrative of the general media, seemingly dont always like to respect the views of others are gtting upset that other people aren't respecting their views (applies equally to most religious groups).
Thinking about this in a wider context though I do wonder if LGBT issues are being over represented presently, when compared with the proportion of the population that identifies with being LGBT;
2017 ONS data suggests that over 93% of the UK population identify as heterosexual, 4% didnt respond. Only under 2% identified as gay or lesbian, and less than 1% as bisexual.
Similar to the recent concerns of the Tavistock centre, in that some young people are being fast tracked, coached, and encouraged to transition when in fact they shouldnt be (other issues at play effectively being mis diagnosed, coupled with powerful LGTB lobby groups creating irreversible issues for those affected), I do wonder whether this sort of thing being promoted from age 4 onwards, couped with all of the other LGBT events and initiatives we see around us, will play a part in leading some young people to experiment and or question their sexuality when they otherwise wouldn't have done, and if this will lead to mental health ussues later in life.
With the obviois double entendre, sometimes it can feel like its being pushed down your throat...
Note: questioning sexuality isnt a bad thing in itself however its almost being taught that everyone should question themselves.
I'd far rather a system which teaches children to both question the world around them and to tolerate different views was installed, rather than focus on a specific group or topic (scrapping religious schools would likely be involved in that for a start, but thats a different topic entirely...)
Some people in identity politics make ££££ it's a business. Unfortunately the world isn't perfect, and some groups won't fit into thier imagined tick box world. If Muslims want to quietly opt out thier kids from it then that's thier right. Thinking about this in a wider context though I do wonder if LGBT issues are being over represented presently, when compared with the proportion of the population that identifies with being LGBT;
2017 ONS data suggests that over 93% of the UK population identify as heterosexual, 4% didnt respond. Only under 2% identified as gay or lesbian, and less than 1% as bisexual.
Similar to the recent concerns of the Tavistock centre, in that some young people are being fast tracked, coached, and encouraged to transition when in fact they shouldnt be (other issues at play effectively being mis diagnosed, coupled with powerful LGTB lobby groups creating irreversible issues for those affected), I do wonder whether this sort of thing being promoted from age 4 onwards, couped with all of the other LGBT events and initiatives we see around us, will play a part in leading some young people to experiment and or question their sexuality when they otherwise wouldn't have done, and if this will lead to mental health ussues later in life.
With the obviois double entendre, sometimes it can feel like its being pushed down your throat...
Note: questioning sexuality isnt a bad thing in itself however its almost being taught that everyone should question themselves.
I'd far rather a system which teaches children to both question the world around them and to tolerate different views was installed, rather than focus on a specific group or topic (scrapping religious schools would likely be involved in that for a start, but thats a different topic entirely...)
markcoznottz said:
If Muslims want to quietly opt out thier kids from it then that's thier right.
Not from bits of the school curriculum, though they can homeschool if they want.This is simple, old fashioned religiously inspired homophobia. Teaching kids that there are gay people and they should not be treated unfavourably because of it is not going to turn anyone gay.
otolith said:
markcoznottz said:
If Muslims want to quietly opt out thier kids from it then that's thier right.
Not from bits of the school curriculum, though they can homeschool if they want.This is simple, old fashioned religiously inspired homophobia. Teaching kids that there are gay people and they should not be treated unfavourably because of it is not going to turn anyone gay.
A lifestyle choice, presumably to these religious halfwits?
jeff m2 said:
So you are OK if your daughter comes home and freaks out because there is meat on the table, She has been told killing animals is wrong!
Which maybe it is, maybe it isn't.
But who should decide that for your family,
An alternative view -Which maybe it is, maybe it isn't.
But who should decide that for your family,
The Church teaches that Homosexuality is evil. Your son./daughter comes home with a very negative view about homosexuals.
The School teaches that Homosexuality and heterosexuality are both acceptable. Your son/daughter comes home with an understanding that homosexuality and heterosexuality are both acceptable. one is not fundamentally better than the other. Both exist in the real world etc etc.
In relation to your example - schools aren't teaching that something is "WRONG". It's the church doing that.
jeff m2 said:
kurt535 said:
jeff m2 said:
Teachers with personal agendas shouldn't be teachers.
what's personal in wishing to reduce hatred towards another human being?Which maybe it is, maybe it isn't.
But who should decide that for your family,
Maybe get a handle on the spelling first, it's your tax money!
jeff m2 said:
So you are OK if your daughter comes home and freaks out because there is meat on the table, She has been told killing animals is wrong!
Which maybe it is, maybe it isn't.
But who should decide that for your family,
Maybe get a handle on the spelling first, it's your tax money!
So, you’d rather your child wasn’t taught that homosexuality is OK. Right-o.Which maybe it is, maybe it isn't.
But who should decide that for your family,
Maybe get a handle on the spelling first, it's your tax money!
Previous said:
My first thought was that there is a little irony here, in that a group which, at least in the narrative of the general media, seemingly dont always like to respect the views of others are gtting upset that other people aren't respecting their views (applies equally to most religious groups).
Thinking about this in a wider context though I do wonder if LGBT issues are being over represented presently, when compared with the proportion of the population that identifies with being LGBT;
2017 ONS data suggests that over 93% of the UK population identify as heterosexual, 4% didnt respond. Only under 2% identified as gay or lesbian, and less than 1% as bisexual.
Similar to the recent concerns of the Tavistock centre, in that some young people are being fast tracked, coached, and encouraged to transition when in fact they shouldnt be (other issues at play effectively being mis diagnosed, coupled with powerful LGTB lobby groups creating irreversible issues for those affected), I do wonder whether this sort of thing being promoted from age 4 onwards, couped with all of the other LGBT events and initiatives we see around us, will play a part in leading some young people to experiment and or question their sexuality when they otherwise wouldn't have done, and if this will lead to mental health ussues later in life.
With the obviois double entendre, sometimes it can feel like its being pushed down your throat...
Note: questioning sexuality isnt a bad thing in itself however its almost being taught that everyone should question themselves.
I'd far rather a system which teaches children to both question the world around them and to tolerate different views was installed, rather than focus on a specific group or topic (scrapping religious schools would likely be involved in that for a start, but thats a different topic entirely...)
What this sample survey tells me is that people are still scared of openly identifying as LGBTQ+. There is still a lot of stigma attached to being one of these and it is still a dangerous world if you are one.Thinking about this in a wider context though I do wonder if LGBT issues are being over represented presently, when compared with the proportion of the population that identifies with being LGBT;
2017 ONS data suggests that over 93% of the UK population identify as heterosexual, 4% didnt respond. Only under 2% identified as gay or lesbian, and less than 1% as bisexual.
Similar to the recent concerns of the Tavistock centre, in that some young people are being fast tracked, coached, and encouraged to transition when in fact they shouldnt be (other issues at play effectively being mis diagnosed, coupled with powerful LGTB lobby groups creating irreversible issues for those affected), I do wonder whether this sort of thing being promoted from age 4 onwards, couped with all of the other LGBT events and initiatives we see around us, will play a part in leading some young people to experiment and or question their sexuality when they otherwise wouldn't have done, and if this will lead to mental health ussues later in life.
With the obviois double entendre, sometimes it can feel like its being pushed down your throat...
Note: questioning sexuality isnt a bad thing in itself however its almost being taught that everyone should question themselves.
I'd far rather a system which teaches children to both question the world around them and to tolerate different views was installed, rather than focus on a specific group or topic (scrapping religious schools would likely be involved in that for a start, but thats a different topic entirely...)
There is still a lot that needs to change within our culture to achieve true equality.
It isn't "almost taught that everyone should question their sexuality . That's a ridiculous notion.
WonkeyDonkey said:
Surely if they want to live in a backwards country they could go move to Pakistan or any middle eastern country that sees homosexuals lower than vermin.
Absolutely ridiculous that we pander to the mostly barbaric and totally backwards beliefs of the Muslim faith.
Talking about backwards beliefs...Absolutely ridiculous that we pander to the mostly barbaric and totally backwards beliefs of the Muslim faith.
I think you'd find similar views in a lot of countries outside Western Europe.....
PurpleMoonlight said:
It's like a game of discrimination trumps.
Homosexuality trumps religion.
What trumps homosexuality?
Gender identity, have we not figured this out yet (although perhaps not as I thought religion trumps homosexuality-as long as it's not Christianity)?Homosexuality trumps religion.
What trumps homosexuality?
Anyway, I sure am upset I wasn't taught homo/bi/transexuality at school, the world may have turned out such a better place had we have been...
jeff m2 said:
kurt535 said:
jeff m2 said:
Teachers with personal agendas shouldn't be teachers.
what's personal in wishing to reduce hatred towards another human being?Which maybe it is, maybe it isn't.
But who should decide that for your family,
I'm a meat eater, but if my kids had come home from school telling me that being vegetarian was also fine, I'd think that was a good message. If I disagreed, and thought vegetarians were inferior beings to be shunned and abused, then that would make we a bit of a t
t. And all the more reason for the school to reinforce a message that my kid's thick, backward dad was too stupid to realise. Fulmentaljack3t said:
There is still a lot that needs to change within our culture to achieve true equality.
It isn't "almost taught that everyone should question their sexuality . That's a ridiculous notion.
The first part, I agree with you.It isn't "almost taught that everyone should question their sexuality . That's a ridiculous notion.
The second is opinion:
Internal reports from the Tavistock and Portman NHS foundation, the NHS unit which runs the Gender Identity Development Service which helps young people with transitioning suggest that the department is failing to examine patients and is not properly investigating social and / or psychological factors before fast tracking transitions. It also suggests that some patients are coached on what to say to ensure they are "correctly" assessed to get on the fast track, with some patients having identical stories on how they discovered they need to transition.
In short the allegation is that vulnerable people are being helped to transition when in fact they should not be.
I'm not saying the two are linked but it does suggest some individuals are being pushed into courses of action which is not in their interest.
The point broadly was, in the same way that advertisers use multiple channels displying linked but slightly different brand messages to create immersive marketing campaigns, does this education course contribute to the spectrum of LGBTQ+ activities (awareness events etc) in a way that is designed to change behaviour (yes is probably the answer as thats its intent) and then, from that, what is the overall message that is being created: is it one of equality or promotion?
These parents are claiming to be concerned about the latter (although i dont deny that religious inspired bigotry likely plays a part).
Im sure that all of the different messages arent actually coordinated and therefore I doubt theres a planned message as such, however I dont think its rediculous to ask the question given the rate of societal change on this topic and especially so given that some of the people who work in this sector are expressing concerns on similar issues.
Countdown said:
WonkeyDonkey said:
Surely if they want to live in a backwards country they could go move to Pakistan or any middle eastern country that sees homosexuals lower than vermin.
Absolutely ridiculous that we pander to the mostly barbaric and totally backwards beliefs of the Muslim faith.
Talking about backwards beliefs...Absolutely ridiculous that we pander to the mostly barbaric and totally backwards beliefs of the Muslim faith.
I think you'd find similar views in a lot of countries outside Western Europe.....
Shock horror. The holy book that islam is plagerised from is homophobic too.
liam1986 said:
Countdown said:
WonkeyDonkey said:
Surely if they want to live in a backwards country they could go move to Pakistan or any middle eastern country that sees homosexuals lower than vermin.
Absolutely ridiculous that we pander to the mostly barbaric and totally backwards beliefs of the Muslim faith.
Talking about backwards beliefs...Absolutely ridiculous that we pander to the mostly barbaric and totally backwards beliefs of the Muslim faith.
I think you'd find similar views in a lot of countries outside Western Europe.....
Shock horror. The holy book that islam is plagerised from is homophobic too.
Going back on topic - the UK is (IMO) well ahead of most of the rest of the world in terms of promoting “Equality” so we shouldn’t attempt to back down or try to placate people like this who are stuck in the last century.
Johnnytheboy said:
Buggles said:
"Children are being told it's OK to be gay yet 98 per cent of children at this school are Muslim. It's a Muslim community...
So if I drew a Venn Diagram there's no intersection between being born into a Muslim household and turning out to be gay? Riiiiiight.....
https://archive.islamonline.net/?p=659
Which may well be the reason for requiring the lessons in the first place.
Edited by Ridgemont on Sunday 3rd March 19:26
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