Is this homophobia dressed up as parents' rights?
Discussion
Buggles said:
NoNeed said:
I think schools should focus on academic stuff, subjects such as relationships, religion and politics are better suited to the family
I sort of agree. But then I suppose the reason we have a National Curriculum and OFSTED requirements, is because parents can't be trusted to teach their children about relationships, religion and politics without bias. These parents are proof of that. Ever seen the "British Values" thing that's supposed to be taught in schools? If you're from an Irish, Indian, Pakistani, non-British family you soon realise it's pure biased propaganda.
NoNeed said:
I think schools should focus on academic stuff, subjects such as relationships, religion and politics are better suited to the family
And you think parents would actually properly engage this stuff? Or just push their own opinions on their children (who will take it as gospel)?GroundEffect said:
NoNeed said:
I think schools should focus on academic stuff, subjects such as relationships, religion and politics are better suited to the family
And you think parents would actually properly engage this stuff? Or just push their own opinions on their children (who will take it as gospel)?Parents have a vested interest in their offspring and will do what they believe is right. 1 hour a week in a lesson at school will not change parental teachings, if anything it will become more dogmatic as it will start by "don't listen to what they told you".
NoNeed said:
GroundEffect said:
NoNeed said:
I think schools should focus on academic stuff, subjects such as relationships, religion and politics are better suited to the family
And you think parents would actually properly engage this stuff? Or just push their own opinions on their children (who will take it as gospel)?Parents have a vested interest in their offspring and will do what they believe is right. 1 hour a week in a lesson at school will not change parental teachings, if anything it will become more dogmatic as it will start by "don't listen to what they told you".
Buggles said:
sgtBerbatov said:
The curriculum is biased itself. Without parents there is no balance.
Ever seen the "British Values" thing that's supposed to be taught in schools? If you're from an Irish, Indian, Pakistani, non-British family you soon realise it's pure biased propaganda.
I haven't no, could you give me the highlights? Always eager to learn. Ever seen the "British Values" thing that's supposed to be taught in schools? If you're from an Irish, Indian, Pakistani, non-British family you soon realise it's pure biased propaganda.
I agree that teaching isn't perfect and the curriculum may be biased, but in this case, surely you'd be glad that teaching isn't left in the hands of these parents?
I do know however that one aspect is to do with the armed forces and how they go around the world helping people. One of my sisters colleagues is from Belfast and a Catholic, and she refused to put up that particular aspect of it due to her experiences with them during the 60s/70s. Now I know that in itself is biased, but "pitch capping" was something regularly used during interrorgations, and the Miami Showband murders are two such instances that fly in the face of what this aspect of the british values thing speaks about.
I wonder how many of those on here proclaiming to know whats best for a child actually have them?
Wonder how much overlap there might be with those who don’t and those who think education is something best left to be controlled by the state?
Anyone who thinks Ofsted knows best is ‘avin a larf’
Wonder how much overlap there might be with those who don’t and those who think education is something best left to be controlled by the state?
Anyone who thinks Ofsted knows best is ‘avin a larf’
Fundamentally what this is a fear that merely introducing the concepts of LGBT to children, that it is somehow going to make children grow up to be LGBT. And they don't want an LGBT child.
Someone raised the Section 28 provisions. They were in effect for most of my schooling. I didn't learn about LGBT from school. This censorship harmed me in that I had no reference to understand what I was feeling as I was growing up. It caused me to be anxious, made me lie to myself and to others. I remember swearing an oath to myself that I wouldn't fancy boys. I self censored my own feelings. This is a familiar story to many LGBT. The LGBT community is far more likely to be dealing with metal health issues like anxiety and depression because of these kinds of issues of self-repression. LGBT youth are more likely to commit suicide because of the anxiety caused by the fear of rejection; because of the vile jokes and lies that are common about LGBT people.
And the irony is that people who campaign against education on LGBT in schools say they're doing it to protect the children. They're not. They're harming children who will become LGBT and harming them for life, and enabling homophobia through ignorance in the straight children.
LGBT people exist. LGBT people have always existed; in cultures around the world. It exists in the natural world; with a wide variety of species exhibiting homosexual behavior. Christianity has spent well over a millennia suppressing and eradicating LGBT people, and its not helped anything. It's not a zeitgeist. It's not an idea that spreads. People do not choose to be LGBT, whether or not they learn about it.
And at the heart of it is the homophobia of parents: deathly afraid their kid might grow up to be LGBT.
As if there is something wrong with LGBT people.
There isn't, and that's all that's being taught. So innocent LGBT kids can grow up not repressing their feelings, grow up without being anxious about rejection from their family and friends, grow up without the threat of being bullied or attacked.
Someone raised the Section 28 provisions. They were in effect for most of my schooling. I didn't learn about LGBT from school. This censorship harmed me in that I had no reference to understand what I was feeling as I was growing up. It caused me to be anxious, made me lie to myself and to others. I remember swearing an oath to myself that I wouldn't fancy boys. I self censored my own feelings. This is a familiar story to many LGBT. The LGBT community is far more likely to be dealing with metal health issues like anxiety and depression because of these kinds of issues of self-repression. LGBT youth are more likely to commit suicide because of the anxiety caused by the fear of rejection; because of the vile jokes and lies that are common about LGBT people.
And the irony is that people who campaign against education on LGBT in schools say they're doing it to protect the children. They're not. They're harming children who will become LGBT and harming them for life, and enabling homophobia through ignorance in the straight children.
LGBT people exist. LGBT people have always existed; in cultures around the world. It exists in the natural world; with a wide variety of species exhibiting homosexual behavior. Christianity has spent well over a millennia suppressing and eradicating LGBT people, and its not helped anything. It's not a zeitgeist. It's not an idea that spreads. People do not choose to be LGBT, whether or not they learn about it.
And at the heart of it is the homophobia of parents: deathly afraid their kid might grow up to be LGBT.
As if there is something wrong with LGBT people.
There isn't, and that's all that's being taught. So innocent LGBT kids can grow up not repressing their feelings, grow up without being anxious about rejection from their family and friends, grow up without the threat of being bullied or attacked.
Edited by Rivenink on Monday 4th March 12:12
Rivenink said:
As if there is something wrong with LGBT people.
There isn't, and that's all that's being taught.
Doesn't the argument run something like this:There isn't, and that's all that's being taught.
I perceive that my religion says that there IS something wrong with LGBT people.
I don't want my child's school to teach something that contradicts my religion.
So who wins? The state says "all pupils follow the National Curriculum."
Parents say "our religious beliefs overrule that curriculum. We disagree that it's OK to be gay." For clarity, this isn't my position, I'm just interested how you square this circle?
Or do you just say "tough, if you don't like it, then home school your children."
Rivenink said:
Fundamentally what this is a fear that merely introducing the concepts of LGBT to children, that it is somehow going to make children grow up to be LGBT. And they don't want an LGBT child.
Someone raised the Section 28 provisions. They were in effect for most of my schooling. I didn't learn about LGBT from school. This censorship harmed me in that I had no reference to understand what I was feeling as I was growing up. It caused me to be anxious, made me lie to myself and to others. I remember swearing an oath to myself that I wouldn't fancy boys. I self censored my own feelings. This is a familiar story to many LGBT. The LGBT community is far more likely to be dealing with metal health issues like anxiety and depression because of these kinds of issues of self-repression. LGBT youth are more likely to commit suicide because of the anxiety caused by the fear of rejection; because of the vile jokes and lies that are common about LGBT people.
And the irony is that people who campaign against education on LGBT in schools say they're doing it to protect the children. They're not. They're harming children who will become LGBT and harming them for life, and enabling homophobia through ignorance in the straight children.
LGBT people exist. LGBT people have always existed; in cultures around the world. It exists in the natural world; with a wide variety of species exhibiting homosexual behavior. Christianity has spent well over a millennia suppressing and eradicating LGBT people, and its not helped anything. It's not a zeitgeist. It's not an idea that spreads. People do not choose to be LGBT, whether or not they learn about it.
And at the heart of it is the homophobia of parents: deathly afraid their kid might grow up to be LGBT.
As if there is something wrong with LGBT people.
There isn't, and that's all that's being taught. So innocent LGBT kids can grow up not repressing their feelings, grow up without being anxious about rejection from their family and friends, grow up without the threat of being bullied or attacked.
I think this is how a lot of people think nowadays, a lot have moved on, but religion doesnt seem to.Someone raised the Section 28 provisions. They were in effect for most of my schooling. I didn't learn about LGBT from school. This censorship harmed me in that I had no reference to understand what I was feeling as I was growing up. It caused me to be anxious, made me lie to myself and to others. I remember swearing an oath to myself that I wouldn't fancy boys. I self censored my own feelings. This is a familiar story to many LGBT. The LGBT community is far more likely to be dealing with metal health issues like anxiety and depression because of these kinds of issues of self-repression. LGBT youth are more likely to commit suicide because of the anxiety caused by the fear of rejection; because of the vile jokes and lies that are common about LGBT people.
And the irony is that people who campaign against education on LGBT in schools say they're doing it to protect the children. They're not. They're harming children who will become LGBT and harming them for life, and enabling homophobia through ignorance in the straight children.
LGBT people exist. LGBT people have always existed; in cultures around the world. It exists in the natural world; with a wide variety of species exhibiting homosexual behavior. Christianity has spent well over a millennia suppressing and eradicating LGBT people, and its not helped anything. It's not a zeitgeist. It's not an idea that spreads. People do not choose to be LGBT, whether or not they learn about it.
And at the heart of it is the homophobia of parents: deathly afraid their kid might grow up to be LGBT.
As if there is something wrong with LGBT people.
There isn't, and that's all that's being taught. So innocent LGBT kids can grow up not repressing their feelings, grow up without being anxious about rejection from their family and friends, grow up without the threat of being bullied or attacked.
Edited by Rivenink on Monday 4th March 12:12
I have three sons and I decided early on if any of them were gay I wasn't going to waste any time being a dick about it, went through the thought process years ago and realised as long as they were happy and healthy I wasn't bothered about sexuality, think it was seeing a documentary about a lad in America that came out and got disowned by his dad, how tragic is that, disowning your child over something they don't have control of.
But because it says it in an old book written its fair to say in less enlightened times that people cant be gay, how many religious people must be repressing their feelings to tow the line, again, tragic. I wonder how out Gay Muslims manage, thats a f
king tough gig.Brave Fart said:
Doesn't the argument run something like this:
I perceive that my religion says that there IS something wrong with LGBT people.
I don't want my child's school to teach something that contradicts my religion.
So who wins? The state says "all pupils follow the National Curriculum."
Parents say "our religious beliefs overrule that curriculum. We disagree that it's OK to be gay." For clarity, this isn't my position, I'm just interested how you square this circle?
Or do you just say "tough, if you don't like it, then home school your children."
People actively make a choice when it comes to religion, it's easily lost or given up. What kind of people you're physically attracted to is a wholly different matter. One's political or religious ideology isn't a critical part of one's sense of self whereas sexuality is a fairly fundamental part of it.I perceive that my religion says that there IS something wrong with LGBT people.
I don't want my child's school to teach something that contradicts my religion.
So who wins? The state says "all pupils follow the National Curriculum."
Parents say "our religious beliefs overrule that curriculum. We disagree that it's OK to be gay." For clarity, this isn't my position, I'm just interested how you square this circle?
Or do you just say "tough, if you don't like it, then home school your children."
Brave Fart said:
Doesn't the argument run something like this:
I perceive that my religion says that there IS something wrong with LGBT people.
I don't want my child's school to teach something that contradicts my religion.
So who wins? The state says "all pupils follow the National Curriculum."
Parents say "our religious beliefs overrule that curriculum. We disagree that it's OK to be gay." For clarity, this isn't my position, I'm just interested how you square this circle?
Or do you just say "tough, if you don't like it, then home school your children."
ThisI perceive that my religion says that there IS something wrong with LGBT people.
I don't want my child's school to teach something that contradicts my religion.
So who wins? The state says "all pupils follow the National Curriculum."
Parents say "our religious beliefs overrule that curriculum. We disagree that it's OK to be gay." For clarity, this isn't my position, I'm just interested how you square this circle?
Or do you just say "tough, if you don't like it, then home school your children."
Parents should be told it's the school way or f
k off and pay for home schooling, you backwards s.Maybe if they were that succinct in dealing with it then the message would get home, we shouldn't pander to backwards thinking if it contradicts equality.
Brave Fart said:
Doesn't the argument run something like this:
I perceive that my religion says that there IS something wrong with LGBT people.
I don't want my child's school to teach something that contradicts my religion.
So who wins? The state says "all pupils follow the National Curriculum."
Parents say "our religious beliefs overrule that curriculum. We disagree that it's OK to be gay." For clarity, this isn't my position, I'm just interested how you square this circle?
Or do you just say "tough, if you don't like it, then home school your children."
These kids need to grow up and live in a country where there are many things that other people do that they can't do because Yahweh doesn't like it. I perceive that my religion says that there IS something wrong with LGBT people.
I don't want my child's school to teach something that contradicts my religion.
So who wins? The state says "all pupils follow the National Curriculum."
Parents say "our religious beliefs overrule that curriculum. We disagree that it's OK to be gay." For clarity, this isn't my position, I'm just interested how you square this circle?
Or do you just say "tough, if you don't like it, then home school your children."
Tolerance is a two way street.
J4CKO said:
I think this is how a lot of people think nowadays, a lot have moved on, but religion doesnt seem to.
I have three sons and I decided early on if any of them were gay I wasn't going to waste any time being a dick about it, went through the thought process years ago and realised as long as they were happy and healthy I wasn't bothered about sexuality, think it was seeing a documentary about a lad in America that came out and got disowned by his dad, how tragic is that, disowning your child over something they don't have control of.
But because it says it in an old book written its fair to say in less enlightened times that people cant be gay, how many religious people must be repressing their feelings to tow the line, again, tragic. I wonder how out Gay Muslims manage, thats a fking tough gig.
I know a few....in my generation none of them ever formally "came out", they just went to University and then never came back home. Apropos of nothing two of them became male models and I used to do the accounts for one of themI have three sons and I decided early on if any of them were gay I wasn't going to waste any time being a dick about it, went through the thought process years ago and realised as long as they were happy and healthy I wasn't bothered about sexuality, think it was seeing a documentary about a lad in America that came out and got disowned by his dad, how tragic is that, disowning your child over something they don't have control of.
But because it says it in an old book written its fair to say in less enlightened times that people cant be gay, how many religious people must be repressing their feelings to tow the line, again, tragic. I wonder how out Gay Muslims manage, thats a f
king tough gig.One of my daughter's best friends was muslim/gay. he did have the confidence to come out but his parents were heartbroken. he's also left home and (AIUI) he's patched things up with his parents but the relationship isn't what any parent or child would want it to be. Incidentally (and this isn't another example of whataboutism) a freind of hers called Natalie also came out as gay. her parents were devout catholics and had pretty much the same reaction that the muslim parents did, to the extent that she had a nervous breakdown. Fortunately she's better now and working as a Psychiatrist.
There's clearly a pattern there - strict religion <> homosexuality.
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