Is this homophobia dressed up as parents' rights?
Discussion
t when they routinely contravene their dogma when it suits them.jeff m2 said:
Teachers with personal agendas shouldn't be teachers.
This isnt a personal agenda, it’s a British value. All schools must teach British values, as defined by the government, or face closure. The Head is trying to deliver something that the government defines as essential to childrens’ social upbringing, nothing more than that. nadger said:
This isnt a personal agenda, it’s a British value. All schools must teach British values, as defined by the government, or face closure. The Head is trying to deliver something that the government defines as essential to childrens’ social upbringing, nothing more than that.
Except it's not really an established British value. It's a relatively new concept.(for the avoidance of doubt I support it wholeheartedly)
desolate said:
nadger said:
This isnt a personal agenda, it’s a British value. All schools must teach British values, as defined by the government, or face closure. The Head is trying to deliver something that the government defines as essential to childrens’ social upbringing, nothing more than that.
Except it's not really an established British value. It's a relatively new concept.(for the avoidance of doubt I support it wholeheartedly)
Not really new concepts
j_4m said:
People actively make a choice when it comes to religion, it's easily lost or given up. What kind of people you're physically attracted to is a wholly different matter. One's political or religious ideology isn't a critical part of one's sense of self whereas sexuality is a fairly fundamental part of it.
I don't think many of the ultra religious types (of all flavours) i've met would agree it is something easily lost or given up. Is that not actually the very essence of the argument here? It seems to me the issues here are multiple which is in part why I find it fascinating. For many people, Islam is a way of life and not something easily chosen etc. As it is seemingly unable to be flexible on this issue (or at least certain followers aren't) it has left a large portion of society with an ultimatum has it not? Which I think we would all agree is not very British at all. Unusually I find myself with sympathy for nearly all sides in this one, although I do agree that there should be absolutely no censorship or sidelining of people of differing sexual persuasion I am struggling to keep up with which values are on or off the table with regards to discussion? It's almost like we need a league table of subjects/beliefs.
It would be interesting to see a TV debate (not QT) where this is discussed by leading people of faiths/education as it feels like this is maybe something simmering away that needs addressing. Some enlightened contributions on here, fascinating.
MrNoisy said:
j_4m said:
People actively make a choice when it comes to religion, it's easily lost or given up. What kind of people you're physically attracted to is a wholly different matter. One's political or religious ideology isn't a critical part of one's sense of self whereas sexuality is a fairly fundamental part of it.
I don't think many of the ultra religious types (of all flavours) i've met would agree it is something easily lost or given up. Is that not actually the very essence of the argument here? It seems to me the issues here are multiple which is in part why I find it fascinating. For many people, Islam is a way of life and not something easily chosen etc. As it is seemingly unable to be flexible on this issue (or at least certain followers aren't) it has left a large portion of society with an ultimatum has it not? Which I think we would all agree is not very British at all. Unusually I find myself with sympathy for nearly all sides in this one, although I do agree that there should be absolutely no censorship or sidelining of people of differing sexual persuasion I am struggling to keep up with which values are on or off the table with regards to discussion? It's almost like we need a league table of subjects/beliefs.
It would be interesting to see a TV debate (not QT) where this is discussed by leading people of faiths/education as it feels like this is maybe something simmering away that needs addressing. Some enlightened contributions on here, fascinating.
If you removed all human knowledge and started over, being homosexual would still exist. The same cannot be said of any religion.
MrNoisy said:
I don't think many of the ultra religious types (of all flavours) i've met would agree it is something easily lost or given up. Is that not actually the very essence of the argument here? It seems to me the issues here are multiple which is in part why I find it fascinating. For many people, Islam is a way of life and not something easily chosen etc. As it is seemingly unable to be flexible on this issue (or at least certain followers aren't) it has left a large portion of society with an ultimatum has it not? Which I think we would all agree is not very British at all.
Unusually I find myself with sympathy for nearly all sides in this one, although I do agree that there should be absolutely no censorship or sidelining of people of differing sexual persuasion I am struggling to keep up with which values are on or off the table with regards to discussion? It's almost like we need a league table of subjects/beliefs.
It would be interesting to see a TV debate (not QT) where this is discussed by leading people of faiths/education as it feels like this is maybe something simmering away that needs addressing. Some enlightened contributions on here, fascinating.
You can happily live your life without eating pork or drinking alcohol and facing East at inopportune times of the day, and you can do all of this without persecuting homosexuals.Unusually I find myself with sympathy for nearly all sides in this one, although I do agree that there should be absolutely no censorship or sidelining of people of differing sexual persuasion I am struggling to keep up with which values are on or off the table with regards to discussion? It's almost like we need a league table of subjects/beliefs.
It would be interesting to see a TV debate (not QT) where this is discussed by leading people of faiths/education as it feels like this is maybe something simmering away that needs addressing. Some enlightened contributions on here, fascinating.
amusingduck said:
desolate said:
nadger said:
This isnt a personal agenda, it’s a British value. All schools must teach British values, as defined by the government, or face closure. The Head is trying to deliver something that the government defines as essential to childrens’ social upbringing, nothing more than that.
Except it's not really an established British value. It's a relatively new concept.(for the avoidance of doubt I support it wholeheartedly)
Not really new concepts
desolate said:
amusingduck said:
Mutual respect? Tolerance?
Not really new concepts
Teaching it in schools is. Section 28 was repealed less than 20 years ago.Not really new concepts
I’m afraid that for school children 20 years ago is more than a lifetime! Sorry!
nadger said:
I teach students about the causes and consequences of 9/11!
I’m afraid that for school children 20 years ago is more than a lifetime! Sorry!
I am well aware of that.I’m afraid that for school children 20 years ago is more than a lifetime! Sorry!
I am simply stating that the teaching of mutual tolerance and respect is a relatively new thing. If you are over 30 it's highly likely you won't have been taught that way in this country.
Edited by anonymous-user on Monday 4th March 14:29
joshcowin said:
I would send my child to school for academic reasons, I would not want/expect their morals or standards to be dictated to by the state!
I don't believe that any child who has gone to school, at any period in time, has experienced it purely academically. It is as much a social experience is an academic one.Teaching children about the existence of LGBT people and that those people are normal people and it's nothing to be ashamed of is not dictating morals.
grumbledoak said:
That's not right.
I suspect it is common, but it's not right.
It may well not be right. Every time I go to anything at my stepson's school I hear the same thing from at least one parent: "there's X minutes I'll never get back.." most of them appear completely uninterested in what their children are being taught. Why would this random vox popped female be any different? I suspect it is common, but it's not right.
gregs656 said:
joshcowin said:
I would send my child to school for academic reasons, I would not want/expect their morals or standards to be dictated to by the state!
I don't believe that any child who has gone to school, at any period in time, has experienced it purely academically. It is as much a social experience is an academic one.Teaching children about the existence of LGBT people and that those people are normal people and it's nothing to be ashamed of is not dictating morals.
I take your point about the social element of school, and I completely agree. However the state is dictating morals, some religious groups don't agree with the state, that is their right!
Buggles said:
sgtBerbatov said:
I can't give it verbatim, I've sent my sister (who's a teacher) a text for the synopsis.
I do know however that one aspect is to do with the armed forces and how they go around the world helping people. One of my sisters colleagues is from Belfast and a Catholic, and she refused to put up that particular aspect of it due to her experiences with them during the 60s/70s. Now I know that in itself is biased, but "pitch capping" was something regularly used during interrorgations, and the Miami Showband murders are two such instances that fly in the face of what this aspect of the british values thing speaks about.
Dude, that's not a British values lesson you're talking about, it's a history one. There were wrongs done on both sides during the troubles, it's time that people let it go. I do know however that one aspect is to do with the armed forces and how they go around the world helping people. One of my sisters colleagues is from Belfast and a Catholic, and she refused to put up that particular aspect of it due to her experiences with them during the 60s/70s. Now I know that in itself is biased, but "pitch capping" was something regularly used during interrorgations, and the Miami Showband murders are two such instances that fly in the face of what this aspect of the british values thing speaks about.
Would love to see the internet history of those protesting about homosexuality, especially the blokes, guarantee there is some double standards going on there watching two ladies being intimate.
Worked with a very, on the face of it nice Christian bloke, but delve beneath the surface and he was a right homophobe, though fairly convinced his most intimate relationship was with a sock, Plus we had a mutual acquaintance who I used to worked with who could be quite homophobic, he got disciplined for what he wrote on what he thought was an anonymous work discussion forum, he disappeared, along with his PC one day and I never saw him again as he was in prison for, some years earlier for molesting a 12 year old boy.
Worked with a very, on the face of it nice Christian bloke, but delve beneath the surface and he was a right homophobe, though fairly convinced his most intimate relationship was with a sock, Plus we had a mutual acquaintance who I used to worked with who could be quite homophobic, he got disciplined for what he wrote on what he thought was an anonymous work discussion forum, he disappeared, along with his PC one day and I never saw him again as he was in prison for, some years earlier for molesting a 12 year old boy.
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