Islamaphobia in Tory party?
Discussion
JagLover said:
Brave Fart said:
Gary Neville, never the sharpest tool in the box, was he?
I don't know about that. He is smart enough to realise how you get ahead in the media. Deliberately conflating immigration controls with racism might be just the thing to raise his profile for next time a presenting job is available. 
jakesmith said:
Good post and spot on
And funny how all the people who defend Corbyn to the end and say this and that examples of disgraceful bullying and terrible judgement actually aren’t antisemitism, and fervent supporters of Palestine etc, and it’s all a smear, are now suddenly furious about the injustices faced by Jews at the hands of 2-3 Facebook comments from the odd rogue Tory
I haven't defended Corbyn because you can't defend him.And funny how all the people who defend Corbyn to the end and say this and that examples of disgraceful bullying and terrible judgement actually aren’t antisemitism, and fervent supporters of Palestine etc, and it’s all a smear, are now suddenly furious about the injustices faced by Jews at the hands of 2-3 Facebook comments from the odd rogue Tory
The man is a disgrace and the things that have happened under his leadership are unforgivable.
What is with this constant "but Corbyn" whenever anyone points out wrongdoing in any other party?
Bizarre.
b
hstewie said:
hstewie said: I haven't defended Corbyn because you can't defend him.
The man is a disgrace and the things that have happened under his leadership are unforgivable.
What is with this constant "but Corbyn" whenever anyone points out wrongdoing in any other party?
Bizarre.
Because he is the ringleader of the racism and his party are rotten to the core, and the other party being accused is not? There is a difference you see. It is actually ok to point this out if it is true. Before Labour coughed for antisemitism their defence was wrong are a large organisation there are bound to be a few bad apples’. That was deemed ok until it turned out the barrel was rotten The man is a disgrace and the things that have happened under his leadership are unforgivable.
What is with this constant "but Corbyn" whenever anyone points out wrongdoing in any other party?
Bizarre.
jakesmith said:
Because he is the ringleader of the racism and his party are rotten to the core, and the other party being accused is not? There is a difference you see. It is actually ok to point this out if it is true. Before Labour coughed for antisemitism their defence was wrong are a large organisation there are bound to be a few bad apples’. That was deemed ok until it turned out the barrel was rotten
I think you need to step back and look at what I've written.Point out whatever you like about Corbyn and it's most likely true.
Doesn't mean the issues that people are pointing out with some Conservative candidates are not true.
Staggering.
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: I think you need to step back and look at what I've written.
Point out whatever you like about Corbyn and it's most likely true.
Doesn't mean the issues that people are pointing out with some Conservative candidates are not true.
Staggering.
Oh give the theatricals a rest. Staggering etc. There is very little evidence of an issue with the Tories. Not a staggering amount I’d say anyway. Point out whatever you like about Corbyn and it's most likely true.
Doesn't mean the issues that people are pointing out with some Conservative candidates are not true.
Staggering.
jakesmith said:
Oh give the theatricals a rest. Staggering etc. There is very little evidence of an issue with the Tories. Not a staggering amount I’d say anyway.
Nobody has said it's a staggering amount.Just some issues.
That's what makes all the "but Corbyn" stuff all the more bizarre.
If that bloke doing the monkey chants in the game yesterday said "but United fans are worse" would that be an acceptable defence or make his actions any less abhorrent?
Of course not.
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: I haven't defended Corbyn because you can't defend him.
The man is a disgrace and the things that have happened under his leadership are unforgivable.
What is with this constant "but Corbyn" whenever anyone points out wrongdoing in any other party?
Bizarre.
Because as far as I can see this supposed undercurrent of racism in the Tory party is a furious, politicised campaign which is the result of a Herculean effort to dig up any hint of dirt attached to the Tories which Labour then seize on enthusiastically. See above, they're saying the party is riddled with antisemitism from top to bottom, based on things like a video shared 2 years ago by a prospective candidate which apparently says George Soros manipulates European politics.The man is a disgrace and the things that have happened under his leadership are unforgivable.
What is with this constant "but Corbyn" whenever anyone points out wrongdoing in any other party?
Bizarre.
It isn't a matter of "your party is more racist than mine" but of the Labour party being riddled with antisemitism AND apparently trying to slur the Tories with accusations of racism on very thin grounds.
BigMon said:
Dont like rolls said:
voyds9 said:
BOR said:
Neville was speaking after the Manchester derby, which saw United defeat City 2-1. The result, however, was overshadowed by an incident during the second half of the game that appeared to show a City fan making a monkey gesture towards a United player.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZH2eneguKzwOn a slow view definitely
On full speed so short can't make my mind up.
With a "Racists are everywhere" mind set then it could be....It was obviously a Monkey dance
With a "Not much Racism these days" mind set then maybe not. ...It was a cold day, he was keeping warm.
I suppose that 'Oooh' noise his mouth was making was him exclaiming how cold it was as well.
JuanCarlosFandango said:
Because as far as I can see this supposed undercurrent of racism in the Tory party is a furious, politicised campaign which is the result of a Herculean effort to dig up any hint of dirt attached to the Tories which Labour then seize on enthusiastically. See above, they're saying the party is riddled with antisemitism from top to bottom, based on things like a video shared 2 years ago by a prospective candidate which apparently says George Soros manipulates European politics.
It isn't a matter of "your party is more racist than mine" but of the Labour party being riddled with antisemitism AND apparently trying to slur the Tories with accusations of racism on very thin grounds.
The Conservatives have launched an investigation.It isn't a matter of "your party is more racist than mine" but of the Labour party being riddled with antisemitism AND apparently trying to slur the Tories with accusations of racism on very thin grounds.
The story is covered in that famous leftist newspaper The Daily Mail.
The lady you mention isn't alleged to have simply shared a video she's alleged to have liked a comment made under it that said "Ein Reich".
If that did happen and even if Labour spent hours trawling her social media history looking for it Labour didn't make her do it.
People look at everything through the lens of "their" team.
It would be funny if it wasn't so poisonous.
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: The Conservatives have launched an investigation.
The story is covered in that famous leftist newspaper The Daily Mail.
The lady you mention isn't alleged to have simply shared a video she's alleged to have liked a comment made under it that said "Ein Reich".
If that did happen and even if Labour spent hours trawling her social media history for it Labour didn't make her do that.
People look at everything through the lens of "their" team.
It would be funny if it wasn't so poisonous.
As I said I would be interested to see the full post and what exactly she liked. The articles I have seen seem to leave large gaps.The story is covered in that famous leftist newspaper The Daily Mail.
The lady you mention isn't alleged to have simply shared a video she's alleged to have liked a comment made under it that said "Ein Reich".
If that did happen and even if Labour spent hours trawling her social media history for it Labour didn't make her do that.
People look at everything through the lens of "their" team.
It would be funny if it wasn't so poisonous.
Another reason I am suspicious is the whole hoohaa about that candidates comments on disabled pay. To read some of the coverage you would think she had advocated using disabled people as slave labour.
It's rubbish, as anyone can see from a quick Google search. She seems to have shared or liked an article by Rosa Monckton, whose daughter has downs syndrome, on the benefits of working and the fact that the minimum wage has made this more difficult, she believes.
It's more a case of trying to throw enough muck to get a Remainer into Amber Rudd's old seat where Hart is standing.
It's rubbish, as anyone can see from a quick Google search. She seems to have shared or liked an article by Rosa Monckton, whose daughter has downs syndrome, on the benefits of working and the fact that the minimum wage has made this more difficult, she believes.
It's more a case of trying to throw enough muck to get a Remainer into Amber Rudd's old seat where Hart is standing.
JuanCarlosFandango said:
As I said I would be interested to see the full post and what exactly she liked. The articles I have seen seem to leave large gaps.
That's why there's an investigation.25 sitting or ex-councillors have been suspended.
Follow a process and deal with it if proven but for gods sakes don't keep relying on "but Corbyn" as some kind of excuse.
Dont like rolls said:
BigMon said:
Dont like rolls said:
voyds9 said:
BOR said:
Neville was speaking after the Manchester derby, which saw United defeat City 2-1. The result, however, was overshadowed by an incident during the second half of the game that appeared to show a City fan making a monkey gesture towards a United player.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZH2eneguKzwOn a slow view definitely
On full speed so short can't make my mind up.
With a "Racists are everywhere" mind set then it could be....It was obviously a Monkey dance
With a "Not much Racism these days" mind set then maybe not. ...It was a cold day, he was keeping warm.
I suppose that 'Oooh' noise his mouth was making was him exclaiming how cold it was as well.
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: That's why there's an investigation.
25 sitting or ex-councillors have been suspended.
Follow a process and deal with it if proven but for gods sakes don't keep relying on "but Corbyn" as some kind of excuse.
Well let's see.25 sitting or ex-councillors have been suspended.
Follow a process and deal with it if proven but for gods sakes don't keep relying on "but Corbyn" as some kind of excuse.
As I said earlier these comments deserve looking into, but on the face-off it it seems to me that they're pandering too much to a political campaign to smear the party and divert attention away from Labour.
JuanCarlosFandango said:
Well let's see.
As I said earlier these comments deserve looking into, but on the face-off it it seems to me that they're pandering too much to a political campaign to smear the party and divert attention away from Labour.
Comments allegedly made by some of those suspended:As I said earlier these comments deserve looking into, but on the face-off it it seems to me that they're pandering too much to a political campaign to smear the party and divert attention away from Labour.
“Spineless governments sold us to slavery of the Muslims”
“They can go back to where they came from. Try going to a Muslim country and ask them to stop Muslim traditions because it offends incoming Christians How outrageous is sharia behaviour [sic].”
Nothing to do with Labour.
Maybe one or two (or 25) bad apples but replace with Labour councillors suspended for posting:
“Spineless governments sold us to slavery of the Jews”
“They can go back to where they came from. Try going to a Jewish country and ask them to stop Jewish traditions because it offends incoming Christians How outrageous is Jewish behaviour [sic].”
And ask yourself what your reaction would be.
Be honest with yourself.
JuanCarlosFandango said:
Well let's see.
As I said earlier these comments deserve looking into, but on the face-off it it seems to me that they're pandering too much to a political campaign to smear the party and divert attention away from Labour.
The same tactics you and others are using to divert attention away from the Conservatives? As I said earlier these comments deserve looking into, but on the face-off it it seems to me that they're pandering too much to a political campaign to smear the party and divert attention away from Labour.
JuanCarlosFandango said:
Another reason I am suspicious is the whole hoohaa about that candidates comments on disabled pay. To read some of the coverage you would think she had advocated using disabled people as slave labour.
It's rubbish, as anyone can see from a quick Google search. She seems to have shared or liked an article by Rosa Monckton, whose daughter has downs syndrome, on the benefits of working and the fact that the minimum wage has made this more difficult, she believes.
It's more a case of trying to throw enough muck to get a Remainer into Amber Rudd's old seat where Hart is standing.
Yes it is a very nuanced argument. It's rubbish, as anyone can see from a quick Google search. She seems to have shared or liked an article by Rosa Monckton, whose daughter has downs syndrome, on the benefits of working and the fact that the minimum wage has made this more difficult, she believes.
It's more a case of trying to throw enough muck to get a Remainer into Amber Rudd's old seat where Hart is standing.
If the living wage becomes £10,50 an hour there are clearly some disabled that will not be able to justify that cost for their employers. There needs to be a sensible debate about this not hysteria.
bhstewie said:
hstewie said:jakesmith said:
Oh give the theatricals a rest. Staggering etc. There is very little evidence of an issue with the Tories. Not a staggering amount I’d say anyway.
Nobody has said it's a staggering amount.Just some issues.
That's what makes all the "but Corbyn" stuff all the more bizarre.
If that bloke doing the monkey chants in the game yesterday said "but United fans are worse" would that be an acceptable defence or make his actions any less abhorrent?
Of course not.
the guy doing the monkey noises should be condemned. That doesn’t mean the team he supports should be condemned.
But if the owner, manager, players and fans were all involved? Surely that would be a worse indictment of the team, than one man being an idiot?
And the two certainly shouldn’t get equal news time. And the institutionally racist team above certainly shouldn’t get a pass or distract from their deplorable quagmire of racism due to the one idiot on the other team
bhstewie
Those comments clearly are rotten, but they're not the ones which came out yesterday. Those members are already suspended.
Alpine
I'm not trying to deflect anything. There are a few Conservative members who are wrong uns and they are rightly dealt with. Probably not as swiftly or decisively as would be ideal.
That doesn't mean the party is rife with racism at all levels, nor does it mean they should pander to every silly accusation dredged up on social media.
Nor incidentally should Labour. And FWIW I don't think Corbyn is secretly a Nazi waiting to herd Britain's Jews into gas chambers.
I think he is a pathetic and deluded fool whose desperation to take on unpopular causes has forced him to make bad decisions and dubious allies.
Now this has all come home to roost he is falling back on calling everyone else racist.
hstewieThose comments clearly are rotten, but they're not the ones which came out yesterday. Those members are already suspended.
Alpine
I'm not trying to deflect anything. There are a few Conservative members who are wrong uns and they are rightly dealt with. Probably not as swiftly or decisively as would be ideal.
That doesn't mean the party is rife with racism at all levels, nor does it mean they should pander to every silly accusation dredged up on social media.
Nor incidentally should Labour. And FWIW I don't think Corbyn is secretly a Nazi waiting to herd Britain's Jews into gas chambers.
I think he is a pathetic and deluded fool whose desperation to take on unpopular causes has forced him to make bad decisions and dubious allies.
Now this has all come home to roost he is falling back on calling everyone else racist.
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