Shamima Begum...
Discussion
JagLover said:
Highlighting the difference between relative poverty and absolute poverty.
If you define "poverty" as being below 60% of median income then you are going to find "poverty" in the richest countries.
Correct. Absolute poverty is a stupid measure. We could double the income of everyone in the country without reducing absolute poverty.If you define "poverty" as being below 60% of median income then you are going to find "poverty" in the richest countries.
Northernboy said:
Here’s something more recent then. If you are willing to move to Romania to take advantage of the cheap beer that is directly related to the extreme poverty then you have lost any right to criticize the UK, which goes far, far better on all of the important measures.
https://www.romania-insider.com/children-poverty-r...
https://www.childrenscommissioner.gov.uk/2020/06/22/fact-checking-claims-about-child-poverty/https://www.romania-insider.com/children-poverty-r...
I have never denied Romania is poorer than the UK. As are all the Eastern European countries. However, to suggest its some sort of third world country is simply wrong. As for the price of beer its about the same as in Hungary, Poland, Czech etc etc.
I think we should stop this thread high jack.
So last suggestion go and visit when restrictions lift and then you can judge. If you want suggestions on where to visit just ask.
mrporsche said:
Why do Romanians want to move to the UK then ?
Average salary Romania: €675/monthSource
Average salary UK: £1950/month
Source
Admittedly a lot of Romanians coming here end up working in black economy jobs and won't get close to the UK average salary. Nevertheless, by living in multiple occupancy properties living costs can be lowered and they are able to send money back to Romania to have a better life.
The UK is a means to an end of improving life back in Romania.
The Spruce Goose said:
the ones i've worked with., as quite a few eastern Europeans, use there wages here to build very nice homes back in their orginal country. They can earn 10x what they earn there, doing the dame jobs.
Let's face it, if the tables were reversed we'd be doing the same, group of you in a house sharing, saving up a stack of cash where its worth more back home.Wasn't Auf Wiedersehen Pet similar?
Mrr T said:
Northernboy said:
Are you on crack? Corruption and poverty in Romania is off the scale compared the the U.K. or the US. A large fraction of the population lives in abject poverty, on less than £1,000 per year. Per year, not per month.
But yes, if you move from a rich country like the U.K. then indeed you can live very cheaply, and of course you are staying close enough that we can’t be certain that you’ll be able to pop back when you need to make use of the NHS.
Edited to add some data.
Child poverty rate in the UK is 6%, in Romania it’s 72%;
https://www.unicef-irc.org/publications/pdf/rc10_e...
UK is 11th in the world corruption index, Romania is 60th.
By all means go somewhere that your savings will stretch further, but don’t pretend that Romania is ahead of the UK on any of the normal measures of what makes a country a good one.
Not sure where your figures come from but average wage on PPP is about €2200 per month. The UK is about 50% more but a Romanian can still buy a flat in Bucharest for €100k.But yes, if you move from a rich country like the U.K. then indeed you can live very cheaply, and of course you are staying close enough that we can’t be certain that you’ll be able to pop back when you need to make use of the NHS.
Edited to add some data.
Child poverty rate in the UK is 6%, in Romania it’s 72%;
https://www.unicef-irc.org/publications/pdf/rc10_e...
UK is 11th in the world corruption index, Romania is 60th.
By all means go somewhere that your savings will stretch further, but don’t pretend that Romania is ahead of the UK on any of the normal measures of what makes a country a good one.
Edited by Northernboy on Wednesday 17th March 09:50
Can I suggest you spend some time visiting the country. Only then can you judge.
Drive out a couple of hours to the Sinaia / Busteni areas and you have some fabulous places to live that won't cost you a fortune. Iasi is also proving attractive for foreign investment and job creation, and has some great places to live nearby.
Corruption has certainly been an issue though, and continues to be. The government is trying to change this, but it's been endemic since communist times and is proving difficult to shift.
techguyone said:
Let's face it, if the tables were reversed we'd be doing the same, group of you in a house sharing, saving up a stack of cash where its worth more back home.
Wasn't Auf Wiedersehen Pet similar?
It was, and if anyone in Düsseldorf back then had been banging on in the pubs about how bad Germany was and how he was going to move to North Shields he’d have been laughed out if there, much as someone here saying the same about Romania would be today.Wasn't Auf Wiedersehen Pet similar?
mrporsche said:
Why do Romanians want to move to the UK then ?
A lot of people got out of Romania as fast as they could in 1990 due in a large part to a fear of a rapid return to communism. There was a 'first flight to anywhere' mentality immediately after the Ceausescu regime collapsed - get out while you can! Following Romania's entry to the EU, many folks looked at their new ability to work in countries with higher earning potential and more jobs - and guess what, rather than whining about how terrible the EU was, those folks recognised the opportunities and decided to use them! (I did something similar here in the UK - I looked at what opportunities the EU presented, and took them, and made quite a bit of cash out of it). In fact, the UK isn't the first choice of destination for most Romanians (despite what Nigel Facade will tell you). The first choice is actually Italy, due to the fact that the Romanian and Italian languages are both rooted in Latin. If you're Romanian, you'll be able to read Italian with very little learning, and speak it with minimal effort. When you're trying to adapt to a new culture, a familiar language goes a long way.
Mrr T said:
eldar said:
Romania sounds like Workington. Both have their attractions
I will admit I have never been to Workington. Does it look like this?https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carpathian_Mountai...
dudleybloke said:
Is moving somewhere with a low standard of living taking advantage of people's poverty or is it helping them by spending money in their economy?
We hear about how the trickledown economy is so good for us why not them?
Depends what you get up to in the country and if you use your money to exploit people in illicit ways. We hear about how the trickledown economy is so good for us why not them?
If you contribute to the economy, pay taxes etc. then it provides some benefit.
dudleybloke said:
Is moving somewhere with a low standard of living taking advantage of people's poverty or is it helping them by spending money in their economy?
We hear about how the trickledown economy is so good for us why not them?
Most of Romania doesn’t have a low standard of living. It’s hardly a 3rd world country. Last time I was in Constanta I felt like a peasant as I was ‘only’ driving a C class. When you get out of the cities the quality of life is amazing. My in-laws have recently bought a house in the Carpathians, with several acres of land. I could quite happily retire there and enjoy a relaxed pace of life & very high standard of living. We hear about how the trickledown economy is so good for us why not them?
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