Shamima Begum...
Discussion
Exige77 said:
Poor parenting and hate preachers able to sell their wares for far too long.
of course they're a factor, but without excusing them how much was it that she was a bit job in search of a cause? To over-emphasise them makes one as bad as the vocal lefty derps whos bigotry demands they under-emphasiseThe Li-ion King said:
0ddball said:
I'm not convinced it has died, but the story certainly plays in her favour. It's all our fault now.
Sajid Javed also wanted to be seen as tough, tackling the issue, but it's more for political gain. He knows Theresa May will be leaving the process soon, to coin a term from The Apprentice. He doesn't want to be seen offering a way out to his fellow Muslim so he had to void her citizenship, along with her son who may have passed away, which technically means she doesn't have to come home now...She was keen enough to nick her sister's passport and go out there to the Levant as an ISIS bride. Perhaps we will see her in a few weeks off the coastline at Dymchurch in a dinghy with a few other migrants...
But the policy falls apart in Syria from a FCO point of view. Originally, the FCO stated she needed to make her way to a British consulate, and they'd take it from there (ie. head to Turkey). They cited security concerns why a British consular team couldn't head to the camp, and this morning, the Foreign Secretary stated more or less the same thing, despite apparently a string of members of the media heading to these camps.
The real issue, is that the camps are in SDF/YPG controlled zones. The British government cannot recognise the Kurds as being the sovereign power in the area. A British consular team would need to cross the border, and be received by officials of what the Turks regard as a terrorist organisation. It might be perceived that we are recognising a Kurdish state, and that would cause a storm. If this woman was found in an Iraqi refugee camp, there might be less of a problem, because there is no dispute from Baghdad who is the sovereign authority in Northern Iraq.
This symbology is important. Contrast the interview given with Jack Letts. He's been banged up in a Kurdish prison somewhere in Syria, on charges of ISIS membership. I'm not sure which law code he is being charged under, or what form of trial he can expect. The interviews are in a fairly comfortable looking office, he's thin, but clean and in prison clothes. He is sat between 2 flags and some sort of official seal. I'm not sure what this means, but its supposed to denote which organisation has him, and that they want recognition by the West.
By contrast, Shamina Begum is in utter squalor; I dare say the splashes on her clothing is not mud.
Now the condition these two find themselves in should not prejudice what we think should happen to them. But it points to bigger geopolitical questions at play. Which also goes back to how these 3 schoolgirls were allowed to leave. The police knew what they were up to, but gave letters to the girls themselves, not their parents. Border Force; no flags thrown up when 3 unaccompanied minors boarded a flight to Turkey. The State has questions to answer; was this intended, was it a mistake.
And going back to retrieving British citizens (women). There are undoubtedly British forces in the region. So is the government going to plan an operation, with various assets, to go into these camps, try and identify UK nationals, and take them out (trussed up) at dawn? Not going to happen.
The Kurds are not charging them with anything; they have prisons stuffed full of ISIS suspects awaiting trial. Recently, the SDF handed over French nationals to Iraqi authorities, and these are now facing justice in an Iraqi court
https://www.ft.com/content/7254c20a-3920-11e9-b72b...
That this high profile individual is in a tent slum in Syria indicates the Kurds have no interest in her. There are parallels to the case of Linda Wenzal; the 17 year old German captured in Mosul, on trial for allowing the death of a child slave from thirst.
Apparently there are 800 EU nationals in Kurdish hands, some awaiting local justice, some in some sort of limo. Who they are is a bit sporadic.
Don't also forget the American government is demanding we take these people back and deal with them, otherwise they are going to set them loose.
Down and out said:
biggbn said:
Dindoit said:
edited by moderator.
Good summary, what an unpleasant place. I will certainly be more selective in my future posting. Some of the comments on here sink to the levels of those commented on. Embarrassing. Edited by dinosaur.mod on Sunday 10th March 15:34
My thread was not to aportion blame, I certainly do not believe you can retrospectively attribute blame on a maybe/might have/could have platform. My thread was because I wonder why we did not bring her back, take her child and throw her in jail. I feel this would have sent a clearer and harsher message to other 'dispossessed disenfranchised' individuals who wish to leave our countries with intent to harm them then return under a flag of adopted convenience.
Edited for reason below!!
Edited for reason below!!
Edited by biggbn on Sunday 10th March 15:01
biggbn said:
My thread was not to abortion blame, I certainly do not believe you can retrospectively attribute blame on a maybe/might have/could have platform. My thread was because I wonder why we did not bring her back, take her child and throw her in jail. I feel this would have sent a clearer and harsher message to other 'dispossessed disenfranchised' individuals who wish to leave our countries with intent to harm them then return under a flag of adopted convenience.
What clearer message can there be than “we don’t want you here, you are not welcome”While the usual do gooders start saying we should take her back, she’s a victim, we need to understand her motivation for going, the message is completely unclear.
Exige77 said:
biggbn said:
My thread was not to abortion blame, I certainly do not believe you can retrospectively attribute blame on a maybe/might have/could have platform. My thread was because I wonder why we did not bring her back, take her child and throw her in jail. I feel this would have sent a clearer and harsher message to other 'dispossessed disenfranchised' individuals who wish to leave our countries with intent to harm them then return under a flag of adopted convenience.
What clearer message can there be than “we don’t want you here, you are not welcome”While the usual do gooders start saying we should take her back, she’s a victim, we need to understand her motivation for going, the message is completely unclear.
I just feel for continuity a more consistent approach is necessary. Immediate arrest on reentering country and if they are travelling with children, children are taken from them. This might, at least, prevent some women joining up..?
dundarach said:
I find it a real worry that in the 5th richest nation on Earth, we allow a baby to die.
These scumbag terrorist are right about at the bottom of my list.
And yet, I'm deeply ashamed to be British if this is what we now stand for.
we "allow" millions to die every year, if you want to make us responsible for what happens to everyone everywhere.These scumbag terrorist are right about at the bottom of my list.
And yet, I'm deeply ashamed to be British if this is what we now stand for.
dundarach said:
I find it a real worry that in the 5th richest nation on Earth, we allow a baby to die.
These scumbag terrorist are right about at the bottom of my list.
And yet, I'm deeply ashamed to be British if this is what we now stand for.
This sounds far too emotive.These scumbag terrorist are right about at the bottom of my list.
And yet, I'm deeply ashamed to be British if this is what we now stand for.
Who would you send to rescue the baby, assuming you could get there in time. Would that person be instructed to rescue only hers, or all at risk?
Rescue only babies, and ignore toddlers?
So, what would your action plan be, exactly?
dundarach said:
I find it a real worry that in the 5th richest nation on Earth, we allow a baby to die.
Through action and, more often, inaction, we all allow millions of babies to die.If you want to get cross and change the world, there are many things you could take action about which would make much more difference instead of worrying about someone with a decent PR firm who wants to come to the UK because her adopted caliphate nation lost a war.
As I'm neither a military strategist, nor an expert on international affairs, I'm affriad I've no idea how the baby could have ben rescued.
I do know that a British citizen requested to come home and face justice.
Perhaps if we'd acted like a civilised nation, she would be in prison now on terrorist sympathiser charges and her baby, also a British citizen, would be alive.
If anyone on here thinks 'good' that a new born baby has died because our home secretary is so afraid of public opinion, they need to have a long hard look at themselves in the mirror!
The baby died because we acted like a bunch of savage school children, so afraid to deal with a problem we created. Remeber she was born here, educated here, and brought up here.
By not giving enough of a s
t about our fellow neighbours, she saw some st head on the internet and believed she could have a better life.
I wonder, coming on here and reading people's responses about the death of an infant, all full of anger, whilst sat in their nice houses, with their nice German cars on the dirve, do I wonder where she got the idea that this country doesn't care.
You can't divorce lack of care for the consequences unfortunately.
We are in this position because we just don't care, me included, I don't honestly care enough to do anything, otherwise I'd be out in the streets screaming, rather than justifying me emotional response to a dead baby on the internet.
Then again, I except I'm part of the problem in the world, do you?
I'm just hopelessly lost on what to do about it, if only we had a strong Government to show us the way....oh yes, they have....
fk her, I think was the answer, we don't care either!
I do know that a British citizen requested to come home and face justice.
Perhaps if we'd acted like a civilised nation, she would be in prison now on terrorist sympathiser charges and her baby, also a British citizen, would be alive.
If anyone on here thinks 'good' that a new born baby has died because our home secretary is so afraid of public opinion, they need to have a long hard look at themselves in the mirror!
The baby died because we acted like a bunch of savage school children, so afraid to deal with a problem we created. Remeber she was born here, educated here, and brought up here.
By not giving enough of a s
t about our fellow neighbours, she saw some st head on the internet and believed she could have a better life.I wonder, coming on here and reading people's responses about the death of an infant, all full of anger, whilst sat in their nice houses, with their nice German cars on the dirve, do I wonder where she got the idea that this country doesn't care.
You can't divorce lack of care for the consequences unfortunately.
We are in this position because we just don't care, me included, I don't honestly care enough to do anything, otherwise I'd be out in the streets screaming, rather than justifying me emotional response to a dead baby on the internet.
Then again, I except I'm part of the problem in the world, do you?
I'm just hopelessly lost on what to do about it, if only we had a strong Government to show us the way....oh yes, they have....
f
k her, I think was the answer, we don't care either!Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff