Shamima Begum...

[McGee_22]

According to Unicef approximately 21 children under the age of five die every minute of every day (approx 29,000 per day) around the globe so do those who are criticising the admittedly quite harsh posts about the death of this particular child care and give as much thought to the other c28,999 children dying on that day or the nearly 100,000 children that have died since?

Miss Begums life is in the spotlight through her decisions, her actions and her beliefs. She has had her three children die in her care, is unrepentant about her decision to support a muderous regime, is unfazed about beheadings, mutilations and torture done in the name of her belief system and now, after all this wishes us to show sympathy and accept her back.

I don't completely align myself with but I find it easier to believe the convictions of those who really have no compassion for her, her circumstances or her family than those who wish to criticise those beliefs but quite patently show no reference to, compassion for, sympathy for, or thought to the other 28,999 children that may well have died that very same day.

If they did show or share that same compassion for all those other children why were they not mentioned when proferring their criticism for those who have singled out particularly Miss Begum and her deceased child. The sheer hypocrisy of criticising those who single out one individual whilst not mentioning, noting or making reference to the other 28,999 is blatent and indefensible.

Either be completely genuine, accurate and circumspect about your criticism of comments about this childs death in respect of the global picture, or don't bother as you come across as not permitting or allowing the freedom of expression or speech of others. By all means disagree, but get the facts right about who is being criticised, why and the limits of the criticism in respect of the very big picture.

As far as I can read back none of the posters showing little or no compassion for Miss Begum has extended that feeling that to any other child death whatsoever.

Miss Begums lot is of her own making and hers alone. Whatever cards fate has dealt her and will continue to deal her are directly subject to decisions she has made and this should not be overlooked or forgotten.

Edited by McGee_22 on Sunday 10th March 16:10

[loafer123]

Do something positive, and stop moaning about the behaviour of other people on the internet.

[dundarach]

loafer123 said:

Do something positive, and stop moaning about the behaviour of other people on the internet.

I've admitted my failings, I don't care enough.

I might vote for a party who do, otherwise I simply do not care....

Yes it makes me feel like a real at times too.

I'd rather hoped our leaders, who put themselves forward, would be better people, they're not, they're s too!

Right st hole really.

A country full of people who don't care, led by people who also don't!

[anonymous-user]

dundarach said:

I've admitted my failings, I don't care enough.

I might vote for a party who do, otherwise I simply do not care....

Yes it makes me feel like a real at times too.

I'd rather hoped our leaders, who put themselves forward, would be better people, they're not, they're s too!

Right st hole really.

A country full of people who don't care, led by people who also don't!

Unlike yourself I care about some specifics
I care about the security of our country the safety of my friends and family
Britain is a great country very tolerant very warm very embracing
She is also prone to having the Michael taken out of her and this has affected the thinking of some of those who live in the country. They confuse tolerance, empathy and compassion for softness and weakness
Occasionally the balance has to be adjusted. In this case it showed we are not soft, gullible or prepared to put at risk our citizens
It was an excellent decision and one the HS got right.

Edited by anonymous-user on Sunday 10th March 16:51

[Gameface]

dundarach said:

I do know that a British citizen requested to come home and face justice.

Face justice? AFAIK she's not said she's willing to go to prison. She just wants to come home, free and clear, because Syria isn't all it's cracked up to be.

dundarach said:

The baby died because we acted like a bunch of savage school children,

She's ISIS and we're the savages?

dundarach said:

so afraid to deal with a problem we created

What problem is that?

[hutchst]

We seem to have forgotten what happened to the aid and charity workers that went out to Syria and Iraq to help the poor and sick and helpless.

[loafer123]

dundarach said:

loafer123 said:

Do something positive, and stop moaning about the behaviour of other people on the internet.

I've admitted my failings, I don't care enough.

I might vote for a party who do, otherwise I simply do not care....

Yes it makes me feel like a real at times too.

I'd rather hoped our leaders, who put themselves forward, would be better people, they're not, they're s too!

Right st hole really.

A country full of people who don't care, led by people who also don't!

If it is any consolation, the leaders of a country have to reflect the views of their electorate, which they do in this case. It isn’t nice, but it is perfectly rational to say “no, you made your bed, now lie in it”.

[alfaman]

dundarach said:

A country full of people who don't care, led by people who also don't!

The UK in general and UK Govt is arguably much more ‘caring’ than Shamima ... who is unrepentant and openly supportive of and a member of an organisation whose stated goals and actions include:

- genocide, rape, murder, torture, enslavement, child rape, and treason.. for starters.

and we are not caring by not repatriating her

She and her ISIS friends fall into the same category as Hitler and Pol Pot.

arguably she could be tried in Syria by a local or international court for aiding and abetting crimes against humanity.

UK Govt has a ‘duty of care’ to protect citizens from ISIS - not a duty of care to ISIS members.

Some of the debate on this forum has become so surreal - it’s hard to believe some arguments are genuine ...

[dundarach]

loafer123 said:

dundarach said:

loafer123 said:

Do something positive, and stop moaning about the behaviour of other people on the internet.

I've admitted my failings, I don't care enough.

I might vote for a party who do, otherwise I simply do not care....

Yes it makes me feel like a real at times too.

I'd rather hoped our leaders, who put themselves forward, would be better people, they're not, they're s too!

Right st hole really.

A country full of people who don't care, led by people who also don't!

If it is any consolation, the leaders of a country have to reflect the views of their electorate, which they do in this case. It isn’t nice, but it is perfectly rational to say “no, you made your bed, now lie in it”.

I'm sure you're correct, I'm very emotive and lazy I guess.

However, I'm not sure many of us would vote for sneaky speed traps, or the st storm which is Brexit.

Would we vote to legalise canabis?

Would we vote to bring back capital punishment?

Would we vote to bring back food stamps rather than hand outs, to lower fuel prices and scrap foreign aid?

And so on, and on.

I would like our elected politicians to do the right thing and this doesn't sound to me like the right thing.

Thankfully, I'm not in charge I guess.

[chunder27]

No one allowed a baby to die, seems a bit too convenient to me, you really think this womans lawyer would not try ANYTHING ot get her back here?

The whole story seems fake to me sorry.

[dundarach]

chunder27 said:

No one allowed a baby to die, seems a bit too convenient to me, you really think this womans lawyer would not try ANYTHING ot get her back here?

The whole story seems fake to me sorry.

Best not admit I'm a conspiracist then....

However being one, the thought did cross my mind!

[anonymous-user]

biggbn said:

Dindoit said:

Pistonheads: Islam is a barbaric medieval cult.

Also, Pistonheads: I don’t care about the death of a baby. I bet there wasn’t even a kid and if there was she deserved it.

Good summary, what an unpleasant place. I will certainly be more selective in my future posting. Some of the comments on here sink to the levels of those commented on. Embarrassing.

Strange summary. Of course a forum holds discordant views and is logically inconsistent. If it's the same person then quote them, otherwise, shocker; there are some callous fvckers out there who represent only themselves.

[JuanCarlosFandango]

biggbn said:

And break international law? My understanding is it is illegal to make someone stateless, albeit one can argue she made herself stateless when she turned against 'her'country.

I just feel for continuity a more consistent approach is necessary. Immediate arrest on reentering country and if they are travelling with children, children are taken from them. This might, at least, prevent some women joining up..?

I broadly agree with that. I would rather she faced justice here.

I think this decision is a tacit admission that we don't really have the capacity or the will to administer justice in such a case, where we are essentially dealing with an enemy combatant who is also a British citizen.

There is no redeeming her, and she can serve no purpose other than as an example to others.

Personally I support the death penalty, but whole life in a maximum security prison would be acceptable.

Britain has neither capital punishment nor appropriate prisons, and no will or money to build them. Nor does it have appropriate laws for sedition to deal with these cases.

Many of us felt shocked and appalled at Guantanamo Bay, but we don't have any better ideas, and our messy and impotent "human rights" laws would just mean lawyers had a field day until she eventually went back to living on benefits and being a terrorist.

It would be better to reform all this, but until such time removing her citizenship is the best of our limited options.

[biggbn]

fblm said:

biggbn said:

Dindoit said:

Pistonheads: Islam is a barbaric medieval cult.

Also, Pistonheads: I don’t care about the death of a baby. I bet there wasn’t even a kid and if there was she deserved it.

Good summary, what an unpleasant place. I will certainly be more selective in my future posting. Some of the comments on here sink to the levels of those commented on. Embarrassing.

Strange summary. Of course a forum holds discordant views and is logically inconsistent. If it's the same person then quote them, otherwise, shocker; there are some callous fvckers out there who represent only themselves.

OK, apologies for lazy wording. One poster suggested it was good news the kid died then hoped the woman dies also, doubtless the way many radicalised Muslims might feel were the tables turned. I accept the view, as I must, but find it abhorrent.

[JuanCarlosFandango]

Hat trick

https://news.sky.com/story/amp/is-sisters-reema-an...

[TeamD]

C'mon folks, this isn't how it as painted to be by the bleeding hearts...

If she had shown remorse (for her actions and support of ISIS) then the chances are that there would be more sympathy for her predicament.

HOWEVER, she is NOT remorseful apart from how this impacts HER!

Dead baby aside, this person doesn't give a st about anyone but herself.

[JuanCarlosFandango]

chunder27 said:

No one allowed a baby to die, seems a bit too convenient to me, you really think this womans lawyer would not try ANYTHING ot get her back here?

The whole story seems fake to me sorry.

I'm pretty sure it is fake, orchestrated by the remnants of the Islamic State's (rather effective) PR team, and gleefully lapped up by some in the media who believe joining ISIS is a youthful mistake. They would probably have had Shamima Begum on Loose Women in a few months, after being "deradicalised" talking about the evils of Prevent and how austerity caused her to join ISIS.

[poo at Paul's]

dundarach said:

I find it a real worry that in the 5th richest nation on Earth, we allow a baby to die.

These scumbag terrorist are right about at the bottom of my list.

And yet, I'm deeply ashamed to be British if this is what we now stand for.

Sadly, in the UK babies and kids die every week, every day in fact. But they don't make the press as they are not the spawn of a traitor and not being used as political media fodder.
And the likes of Diane Abbot, with her published treacherous diatribe should be taken to the Tower to let the ravens pick at.

Edited by poo at Paul's on Sunday 10th March 19:14

[poo at Paul's]

dundarach said:

As I'm neither a military strategist, nor an expert on international affairs, I'm affriad I've no idea how the baby could have ben rescued.

I do know that a British citizen requested to come home and face justice.

Well, of course, she made her own way out there, so why did she not just make her own way back, you know, like the rest of us do when coming "home" and present herself at passport control at LHR? Why should we pay any attention to her "request to come home"?

You're right about the last sentence of your full post above, though!

You seem far too concerned about it all, unless you're directly affected by this person's plight, may I suggest a decent pint and stick Dancing on Ice on, and just relax about it all. Don't beat yourself up about it, there's far more important things and people you could save your compassion for.

Edited by poo at Paul's on Sunday 10th March 19:23

[ABZ RS6]

poo at Paul's said:

And the likes of Diane Abbot, with her published treacherous diatribe should be taken to the Tower to let the ravens pick at.

Edited by poo at Paul's on Sunday 10th March 19:14

What the hell have the ravens done to deserve that!