Shamima Begum...

Author
Discussion

Rare

114 posts

55 months

Sunday 9th February 2020
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Algarve said:
Fair enough we don't know that, but we do know she got married when she was 15.

I assume the people wanting her sent to holland would be perfectly happy with some of the rochdale grooming gang taking victims out the country then marrying them, you'd still say yes those marriages are legitimate?

Didn't think so. The hypocrisy floating around is staggering biggrin
Not sure of the comparison here. We are regularly told the groomers were British so her moving to country of her late husband doesn’t compare with a British man abusing a British girl in Britain.

I don’t know why Holland would want her.

Comparing the horrific abuse that the girls sufferd in the uk with some people that went to live their life in accordance with their perfect religion is hardly fair.
People of all nationalities and ages went to live in Syria with isis. Thousands went yet this woman and her friends were groomed ??

eldar

21,801 posts

197 months

Sunday 9th February 2020
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Stay in Bed Instead said:
rolleyes

A child does not become an adult simply by changing their clothes, metaphorically or otherwise.
Child? Which culture abused her childhood?

McGee_22

6,728 posts

180 months

Sunday 9th February 2020
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Algarve said:
Rare said:
They can in Syria, the country where she chose to live. We have no idea how old she was when her and her husband first had sex.
Fair enough we don't know that, but we do know she got married when she was 15.

I assume the people wanting her sent to holland would be perfectly happy with some of the rochdale grooming gang taking victims out the country then marrying them, you'd still say yes those marriages are legitimate?
M
Didn't think so. The hypocrisy floating around is staggering biggrin
Of her own free will she rejected the Laws, Culture and Citizenship of Great Britain where the age of consent is 16, and wholly embraced, committed herself to and became a Citizen of ISIL where 'women' can be married at the age of nine. She was over 18 when still committed to and supporting in mind and material her adopted State of ISIL.

No one forced her to leave the United Kingdom, and she willingly gave herself to be married at an age in her adopted State of ISIL where it was perfectly legal, and normal, to be married and have children.

Dont Panic

1,389 posts

52 months

Sunday 9th February 2020
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For someone to say that seeing beheadings each day didnt "bother" them shows how far from being normal she is.
She would be a drain on society and a constant danger to it if she ever came back here.
Her new home is where she is now, let her live there we dont need another jihadi promoting islamic terrorism here. Crying for her I am not.

psi310398

9,135 posts

204 months

Sunday 9th February 2020
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McGee_22 said:
Of her own free will she rejected the Laws, Culture and Citizenship of Great Britain where the age of consent is 16, and wholly embraced, committed herself to and became a Citizen of ISIL where 'women' can be married at the age of nine. She was over 18 when still committed to and supporting in mind and material her adopted State of ISIL.

No one forced her to leave the United Kingdom, and she willingly gave herself to be married at an age in her adopted State of ISIL where it was perfectly legal, and normal, to be married and have children.
You really do mean a 'state' that is recognised by literally not a single member of the UN - even fewer than the Turkish Republic of Cyprus, for example? With as much legal standing as Sealand? Even the weasels in the Home Office don't believe this - they are (ab)using a legal process to attempt to foist her on Bangladesh, despite her having expressed no interest in or loyalty to that country.

I understand they don't want her back here, but they equally do not want to deal with the blowback of seeing her captured, raped, otherwise tortured and murdered by Assad's thugs and they are trying to bounce Bangladesh into taking her in because they calculate that the government there won't dare risk dealing with the inevitable PR backlash should she be captured and abused by Assad's forces.

In some ways, I'd have more respect if HMG simply said to the Kurdish rebels that, so far as it was concerned, the Assad regime was the internationally recognised government of Syria that had competence to deal with ISIS detainees. She should therefore face the Syrian judicial process but HMG would, if it could, offer consular assistance, as it would to any other citizen who found themselves in hot water in another country. In other words HMG could have simply decided to leave her to her fate rather than signalling that it was prepared to play silly buggers with its internationals relations and the notion of security of UK citizenship.


Agammemnon

1,628 posts

59 months

Sunday 9th February 2020
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psi310398 said:
they are (ab)using a legal process to attempt to foist her on Bangladesh, despite her having expressed no interest in or loyalty to that country.
She's expressed no interest in or loyalty to UK either. The difference is that she's legally entitled to citizenship in Bangladesh but not here.

Wacky Racer

38,190 posts

248 months

Sunday 9th February 2020
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TriumphStag3.0V8 said:
We didn't drop the ball.
She left the UK on her older sister's passport.

psi310398

9,135 posts

204 months

Sunday 9th February 2020
quotequote all
Agammemnon said:
She's expressed no interest in or loyalty to UK either. The difference is that she's legally entitled to citizenship in Bangladesh but not here.
Only because someone born as a UK citizen - this is her birthright - had it stripped away by a vindictive law.

Are we similarly going to do the same to second generation Jewish people (on the basis that they are automatically entitled to Israeli nationality) or Windrush descendants, if they do something the Home Secretary decides she doesn't approve of?

eldar

21,801 posts

197 months

Sunday 9th February 2020
quotequote all
psi310398 said:
Only because someone born as a UK citizen - this is her birthright - had it stripped away by a vindictive law.

Are we similarly going to do the same to second generation Jewish people (on the basis that they are automatically entitled to Israeli nationality) or Windrush descendants, if they do something the Home Secretary decides she doesn't approve of?
She stripped it away herself. Stop trying to force the child to do what she doesn’t want to. Sounds rather vindictive, respect her right to decide for herself.

Algarve

2,102 posts

82 months

Sunday 9th February 2020
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anonymous said:
[redacted]
I think if I was in her shoes I'd probably just kill myself. I can't see where she goes from here that could lead to an enjoyable life.

Boydie88

3,283 posts

150 months

Sunday 9th February 2020
quotequote all
Algarve said:
Fair enough we don't know that, but we do know she got married when she was 15.

I assume the people wanting her sent to holland would be perfectly happy with some of the rochdale grooming gang taking victims out the country then marrying them, you'd still say yes those marriages are legitimate?

Didn't think so. The hypocrisy floating around is staggering biggrin
I doubt Shamima was being plied with drugs and alcohol when she made her decision to commit treason.

Agammemnon

1,628 posts

59 months

Sunday 9th February 2020
quotequote all
psi310398 said:
Agammemnon said:
She's expressed no interest in or loyalty to UK either. The difference is that she's legally entitled to citizenship in Bangladesh but not here.
Only because someone born as a UK citizen - this is her birthright - had it stripped away by a vindictive law.

Are we similarly going to do the same to second generation Jewish people (on the basis that they are automatically entitled to Israeli nationality) or Windrush descendants, if they do something the Home Secretary decides she doesn't approve of?
If they renounce UK citizenship, go to a foreign country, join a barbaric regime & actively campaign & fight against us then yes. I don't see how this is particularly vindictive.

Rare

114 posts

55 months

Sunday 9th February 2020
quotequote all
Agammemnon said:
psi310398 said:
Agammemnon said:
She's expressed no interest in or loyalty to UK either. The difference is that she's legally entitled to citizenship in Bangladesh but not here.
Only because someone born as a UK citizen - this is her birthright - had it stripped away by a vindictive law.

Are we similarly going to do the same to second generation Jewish people (on the basis that they are automatically entitled to Israeli nationality) or Windrush descendants, if they do something the Home Secretary decides she doesn't approve of?
If they renounce UK citizenship, go to a foreign country, join a barbaric regime & actively campaign & fight against us then yes. I don't see how this is particularly vindictive.
When the law said we have to take her back many people were keen to point this out, she was our problem etc. They are now all upset as the law appears to suggest we don’t.

But it is the law ....

Algarve

2,102 posts

82 months

Sunday 9th February 2020
quotequote all
Rare said:
When the law said we have to take her back many people were keen to point this out, she was our problem etc. They are now all upset as the law appears to suggest we don’t.

But it is the law ....
I guess it'll rumble on for years. We can't leave her stateless and Bangladesh are openly saying she's not their problem... one of us is going to need to fold.

Agammemnon

1,628 posts

59 months

Sunday 9th February 2020
quotequote all
Algarve said:
Bangladesh are openly saying she's not their problem....
Their legal system says differently.

techguyone

3,137 posts

143 months

Sunday 9th February 2020
quotequote all
Algarve said:
Rare said:
When the law said we have to take her back many people were keen to point this out, she was our problem etc. They are now all upset as the law appears to suggest we don’t.

But it is the law ....
I guess it'll rumble on for years. We can't leave her stateless and Bangladesh are openly saying she's not their problem... one of us is going to need to fold.
tick tock, tick tock, maybe nature will sort it out, those places aren't bedrocks of civilisation and health.

Starfighter

4,931 posts

179 months

Monday 10th February 2020
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Agammemnon said:
Algarve said:
Bangladesh are openly saying she's not their problem....
Their legal system says differently.
No, their legal system says that citizenship must be applied for for non-residents. Any such application would be successful. She has not made an application and so is not a Bangladeshi citizen.

Gecko1978

9,738 posts

158 months

Monday 10th February 2020
quotequote all
Algarve said:
Rare said:
When the law said we have to take her back many people were keen to point this out, she was our problem etc. They are now all upset as the law appears to suggest we don’t.

But it is the law ....
I guess it'll rumble on for years. We can't leave her stateless and Bangladesh are openly saying she's not their problem... one of us is going to need to fold.
or till the next drone strike

pequod

8,997 posts

139 months

Monday 10th February 2020
quotequote all
Starfighter said:
Agammemnon said:
Algarve said:
Bangladesh are openly saying she's not their problem....
Their legal system says differently.
No, their legal system says that citizenship must be applied for for non-residents. Any such application would be successful. She has not made an application and so is not a Bangladeshi citizen.
She remains stateless by choice then even though she has a legal right to Bangladeshi citizenship. It appears the Bangladesh Govt do not wish to allow her into their country and are, quite rightly, not going to make it easy for her to obtain a passport, but the UK Govt are within their rights to remove her citizenship of the UK until proven otherwise through the courts.

Agammemnon

1,628 posts

59 months

Monday 10th February 2020
quotequote all
Starfighter said:
Agammemnon said:
Algarve said:
Bangladesh are openly saying she's not their problem....
Their legal system says differently.
No, their legal system says that citizenship must be applied for for non-residents. Any such application would be successful. She has not made an application and so is not a Bangladeshi citizen.
Allow me to rephrase- their legal system says she can become their problem if she wants a new country to live in.