Shamima Begum...
Discussion
rustednut said:
That comes back to (usual right wing stance) having a trial before deciding the outcome via the media?
What trial is needed? She joined a terrorist organisation.'When interviewed, Begum revealed that she was nine months pregnant and hoped to return to the UK to raise her child, but did not regret her decision to join ISIL. She said she had been unfazed by seeing the head of a beheaded man as he was "an enemy of Islam", but believes that ISIL did not deserve victory because of their corruption and oppression'
theplayingmantis said:
she made herself an enemy of the state for want of a better phrase, yet we have to let her back. why cant she rot over there having made her bed, but now the state will have to support here, or is there no obligation to?
Why should the state over there pick up the tab for "supporting" her? She's British. mx5nut said:
theplayingmantis said:
she made herself an enemy of the state for want of a better phrase, yet we have to let her back. why cant she rot over there having made her bed, but now the state will have to support here, or is there no obligation to?
Why should the state over there pick up the tab for "supporting" her? She's British.im not sayng they should, does a state even exist there to support her anyway?
she should be left to rot and scrape a meagre existence by any means she can.
she has rejected the loose principles we have in the UK and actively set out to destroy us by supporting IS. not sure why she should be entitled to come back and why anyone thinks she deserved that. perhaps they sympathize with her views.
Leicester Loyal said:
What trial is needed? She joined a terrorist organisation.
'When interviewed, Begum revealed that she was nine months pregnant and hoped to return to the UK to raise her child, but did not regret her decision to join ISIL. She said she had been unfazed by seeing the head of a beheaded man as he was "an enemy of Islam", but believes that ISIL did not deserve victory because of their corruption and oppression'
So trial by media is acceptable in this case?'When interviewed, Begum revealed that she was nine months pregnant and hoped to return to the UK to raise her child, but did not regret her decision to join ISIL. She said she had been unfazed by seeing the head of a beheaded man as he was "an enemy of Islam", but believes that ISIL did not deserve victory because of their corruption and oppression'
When is it acceptable and when is it not?
Do not get me wrong, I do not defend her, or want her back here. But the most important thing is to follow the law (in this case international law too)
Lord Justice Flaux said: "It is difficult to conceive of any case where a court or tribunal has said we cannot hold a fair trial, but we are going to go on anyway." Ouch....
The State has to abide by the law, otherwise we're all in trouble (reference 1930's Germany). She has to be accountable to British law, and dumping her on some other third world state hardly seems like justice for anyone.
The State has to abide by the law, otherwise we're all in trouble (reference 1930's Germany). She has to be accountable to British law, and dumping her on some other third world state hardly seems like justice for anyone.
Edited by df76 on Thursday 16th July 12:23
mx5nut said:
theplayingmantis said:
she made herself an enemy of the state for want of a better phrase, yet we have to let her back. why cant she rot over there having made her bed, but now the state will have to support here, or is there no obligation to?
Why should the state over there pick up the tab for "supporting" her? She's British.Until then your protestation is as trite and inconsequential as complaining that despite being caught driving at 40 in a 30, you shouldn't be prosecuted as you feel you have a good reason to be in a hurry and it is unfair.
jakesmith said:
Unfortunately for you we have something in the UK called 'law'. Do you think it is workable to flex it according to your idea of fairness? Why shouldn't we follow it? We are allowed to strip criminal UK nationals of British citizenship if they are eligible for citizenship elsewhere. If you don't like that, write to your MP and request a change in the law.
Until then your protestation is as trite and inconsequential as complaining that despite being caught driving at 40 in a 30, you shouldn't be prosecuted as you feel you have a good reason to be in a hurry and it is unfair.
Sorry the bit in bold is wrong. To correct it you need to change the word "eligible" to "have". Until then your protestation is as trite and inconsequential as complaining that despite being caught driving at 40 in a 30, you shouldn't be prosecuted as you feel you have a good reason to be in a hurry and it is unfair.
Edited by Mrr T on Thursday 16th July 12:20
RacerMike said:
My original point was that there won't realistically be any impact on any of our lives as a result of this judgement.
Unless your 8 year old daughter is blown up at a concert by the group she joined perhaps?And Beggum was hardly contrite in her interview.
This is Saffie Rose Roussos who was murdered in Manchester by IS along with 21 others.
g4ry13 said:
Her father is from Bangladesh and she could have claimed citizenship from there.
This isn't about dislike. It's about a girl who made the decision to join a terrorist regime and benefited from people getting murdered on a daily basis and took joy in seeing UK soldiers being killed. Now that IS is unsuccessful she wants to run back to the country which she vowed hatred against and wished death on its citizens.
How does that make her Bangladesh’s problem? She was born in the U.K., grew up in the U.K. and is a British citizen. The fact that another country allows her to apply for citizenship, that she is not a citizen of, is totally irrelevant.This isn't about dislike. It's about a girl who made the decision to join a terrorist regime and benefited from people getting murdered on a daily basis and took joy in seeing UK soldiers being killed. Now that IS is unsuccessful she wants to run back to the country which she vowed hatred against and wished death on its citizens.
jakesmith said:
mx5nut said:
theplayingmantis said:
she made herself an enemy of the state for want of a better phrase, yet we have to let her back. why cant she rot over there having made her bed, but now the state will have to support here, or is there no obligation to?
Why should the state over there pick up the tab for "supporting" her? She's British.She is British and grew up here.
She was radicalised here.
We can't just palm off our criminals on uninvolved countries because of media pearl clutching about their crimes. We have much worse than her in our courts and prisons already.
RacerMike said:
Dont Panic said:
RacerMike said:
What is great about this is that I can't wait for the huge level of gammon rage that I'll see on Facebook shortly about it.
The reality is that she will pose absolutely zero threat and nothing will happen. There are probably 10 far more dangerous and active extremists to every one Shamima Begum in the UK, but of course that doesn't really resonate with the middle aged white men who will shortly be sharing various Britain Furst and Leave.eu (which now apparently has become some kind of extension of the EDL page) posts about Muslamic X-Tremeists and Immugrents on Speedboats.
Another thick fat racist rises from the mire to spout his bThe reality is that she will pose absolutely zero threat and nothing will happen. There are probably 10 far more dangerous and active extremists to every one Shamima Begum in the UK, but of course that doesn't really resonate with the middle aged white men who will shortly be sharing various Britain Furst and Leave.eu (which now apparently has become some kind of extension of the EDL page) posts about Muslamic X-Tremeists and Immugrents on Speedboats.
ks.
And I thought cabbages only grew in fields.
ks in Dont Panic's post.theplayingmantis said:
jakesmith said:
lots of interesting stuff with a few unusually selected words to make me seem articulate
thanks jake! yes it is unfortunate isnt it. comparing the case to 40 in a 30 is too.Mrr T said:
jakesmith said:
Unfortunately for you we have something in the UK called 'law'. Do you think it is workable to flex it according to your idea of fairness? Why shouldn't we follow it? We are allowed to strip criminal UK nationals of British citizenship if they are eligible for citizenship elsewhere. If you don't like that, write to your MP and request a change in the law.
Until then your protestation is as trite and inconsequential as complaining that despite being caught driving at 40 in a 30, you shouldn't be prosecuted as you feel you have a good reason to be in a hurry and it is unfair.
Sorry the bit in bold is wrong. Until then your protestation is as trite and inconsequential as complaining that despite being caught driving at 40 in a 30, you shouldn't be prosecuted as you feel you have a good reason to be in a hurry and it is unfair.
Mrr T said:
jakesmith said:
Unfortunately for you we have something in the UK called 'law'. Do you think it is workable to flex it according to your idea of fairness? Why shouldn't we follow it? We are allowed to strip criminal UK nationals of British citizenship if they are eligible for citizenship elsewhere. If you don't like that, write to your MP and request a change in the law.
Until then your protestation is as trite and inconsequential as complaining that despite being caught driving at 40 in a 30, you shouldn't be prosecuted as you feel you have a good reason to be in a hurry and it is unfair.
Sorry the bit in bold is wrong. To correct it you need to change the word "eligible" to "have". Until then your protestation is as trite and inconsequential as complaining that despite being caught driving at 40 in a 30, you shouldn't be prosecuted as you feel you have a good reason to be in a hurry and it is unfair.
Edited by Mrr T on Thursday 16th July 12:20
She had automatic citizenship to Bangladesh though.
BBC News said:
Expert lawyers with experience in Bangladeshi citizenship cases have told the BBC that under Bangladesh law, a UK national like Ms Begum, if born to a Bangladeshi parent, is automatically a Bangladeshi citizen. That means that such a person would have dual nationality.
If the person remains in the UK, their Bangladeshi citizenship remains in existence but dormant.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47310206If the person remains in the UK, their Bangladeshi citizenship remains in existence but dormant.
jakesmith said:
theplayingmantis said:
jakesmith said:
lots of interesting stuff with a few unusually selected words to make me seem articulate
thanks jake! yes it is unfortunate isnt it. comparing the case to 40 in a 30 is too.Mrr T said:
jakesmith said:
rustednut said:
So trial by media is acceptable in this case?
When is it acceptable and when is it not?
Do not get me wrong, I do not defend her, or want her back here. But the most important thing is to follow the law (in this case international law too)
Likewise I'm not saying she shouldn't be allowed back here, but stick her in jail for the rest of her life, no visitors, no communication with the outside world, no issue from me.When is it acceptable and when is it not?
Do not get me wrong, I do not defend her, or want her back here. But the most important thing is to follow the law (in this case international law too)
It looks like it's not the end of the issue anyway, the Government are fighting this decision.
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