Ethiopian plane crash

Author
Discussion

PositronicRay

Original Poster:

16,975 posts

131 months

saaby93

26,004 posts

126 months

Sunday 10th March
quotequote all
Might be more useful if the thread title said Ethiopian plane crash frown

Flight radar24 reporting that vertical speed was unstable
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-africa-47513...
Do they mean the sensor was unstable? or was the plane buffeting around?

David87

5,360 posts

160 months

Sunday 10th March
quotequote all
Another 737 MAX.

George Smiley

3,210 posts

29 months

Sunday 10th March
quotequote all
David87 said:
Another 737 MAX.
With another set of cover ups from.boeing

6th Gear

3,426 posts

142 months

Sunday 10th March
quotequote all
George Smiley said:
David87 said:
Another 737 MAX.
With another set of cover ups from.boeing
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/11/13/lion-air-crash-boeing-withheld-information-on737-max-planes-wsj-says.html

Rather worrying.

George Smiley

3,210 posts

29 months

Sunday 10th March
quotequote all
6th Gear said:
A safety feature that seemingly wasn't needed- when was the last time you heard of a nose up stall causing death? Now 400 people as a result of a redundant safety feature

PositronicRay

Original Poster:

16,975 posts

131 months

Sunday 10th March
quotequote all
As we've seen 2 similar accidents in a fairly new model, with a limited number produced. Will we see a withdrawal from service until the cause is known?

jontysafe

2,065 posts

126 months

Sunday 10th March
quotequote all
George Smiley said:
6th Gear said:
A safety feature that seemingly wasn't needed- when was the last time you heard of a nose up stall causing death? Now 400 people as a result of a redundant safety feature
Wasn’t that what happened with AF447? I’m asking because I don’t know.

Eric Mc

108,120 posts

213 months

Sunday 10th March
quotequote all
It was a nose up stall but not caused by the system installed in the Boeing 737 Max.

A Trident crashed in 1972 due to a nose up stall. They can happen for all sorts of reasons.

rxe

2,732 posts

51 months

Sunday 10th March
quotequote all
The Trident had something of a design flaw where the T-tail would get stuck in the air coming off the wings - thus the elevators didn’t work. If you got into this position, it was very hard to get out of it, even if you knew exactly what was wrong. It’s one of the reasons no one screws the engines on to the back of the plane’s fuselage any more.

AF447 was more about bad data and human factors than the stall. Yes, it was in a stall but that is almost incidental. This system would probably have screwed up as well.

Edited by rxe on Sunday 10th March 12:33

jontysafe

2,065 posts

126 months

Sunday 10th March
quotequote all
Eric Mc said:
It was a nose up stall but not caused by the system installed in the Boeing 737 Max.

A Trident crashed in 1972 due to a nose up stall. They can happen for all sorts of reasons.
Yes I’m aware of the different flight systems in that Airbus have ‘laws’ as in normal and alternate and the pilot not realising he was in alt. and when captain came in he said put nose down but tragically it was too late. CRM fail.

Is Boeing going the same way with flight controls?

Pommy

10,167 posts

164 months

Sunday 10th March
quotequote all
I don't recall as many crashes for a new released plane as there have been for the 737 Max and they all seem to be happening not long after take off

saaby93

26,004 posts

126 months

Sunday 10th March
quotequote all
Pommy said:
I don't recall as many crashes for a new released plane as there have been for the 737 Max and they all seem to be happening not long after take off
How many have there been?

David87

5,360 posts

160 months

Sunday 10th March
quotequote all
saaby93 said:
How many have there been?
This is the second 737 MAX 8 to crash, both of which have killed everyone on board. In the same timeframe, there has been nothing comparable with Airbus A320neo aircraft, for example.

Eric Mc

108,120 posts

213 months

Sunday 10th March
quotequote all
Back in the 1960s there were spate of 727 accidents not long after they first entered service.

Hub

4,428 posts

146 months

Sunday 10th March
quotequote all
Not a controlled descent looking at the impact crater. Worrying that on the face of it there are strong similarities with the other Lion Air accident.

Pommy

10,167 posts

164 months

Sunday 10th March
quotequote all
Eric Mc said:
Back in the 1960s there were spate of 727 accidents not long after they first entered service.
But in 2019 planes crashes involving brand new aircraft don't happen that often.

alfaman

6,157 posts

182 months

Sunday 10th March
quotequote all
Pommy said:
I don't recall as many crashes for a new released plane as there have been for the 737 Max and they all seem to be happening not long after take off
Yup - I’d guess this could be something to do with the so called safety feature (auto trim?) that forces the nose down if angle of attack indicator is mis-reading.

Boeing in the poop now?

They’ll be lawyering up and putting out a robust defence

Edited by alfaman on Sunday 10th March 14:48

saaby93

26,004 posts

126 months

Sunday 10th March
quotequote all
David87 said:
saaby93 said:
How many have there been?
This is the second 737 MAX 8 to crash, both of which have killed everyone on board. In the same timeframe, there has been nothing comparable with Airbus A320neo aircraft, for example.
The likelihood with an aircrash is that everyone on board is killed
2 isnt that big a number.

Pommy

10,167 posts

164 months

Sunday 10th March
quotequote all
saaby93 said:
David87 said:
saaby93 said:
How many have there been?
This is the second 737 MAX 8 to crash, both of which have killed everyone on board. In the same timeframe, there has been nothing comparable with Airbus A320neo aircraft, for example.
The likelihood with an aircrash is that everyone on board is killed
2 isnt that big a number.
2 of the same aircraft, a brand new aircraft, with total loss of each within 5 months of each is a very big number.