Ethiopian plane crash

[Gareth79]

Lemming Train said:

I'm not an expert on the finer intracacies so El Stovey is probably better positioned to comment here, but as I understand it the Max uses both sensors already, alternating between them for each flight. My "wire them up" comment was referring to having the info from BOTH sensors displayed on the screens, which is what I understand Boeing to be doing. As they are both in use already then I don't see why there would be any serviceability delays, but I'm happy to be corrected.

Apparently the AOA on each side is connected to a computer on that side, and the computers are alternated each flight.

[dvs_dave]

768 said:

dvs_dave said:

Taken in isolation there is nothing particularly wrong or dangerous with the MAX’s flight envelope. i.e. no “hardware fault”.

There's no hardware fault when a battery overheats and a fire starts then? The software works fine when the hardware sensor isn't broken.

Erm...okeedokee. That makes zero sense.

[PorkRind]

It's a bit like India having a space program, wfh are they doing with a fleet of jets when they can't even feed all of their country?

[768]

dvs_dave said:

768 said:

dvs_dave said:

Taken in isolation there is nothing particularly wrong or dangerous with the MAX’s flight envelope. i.e. no “hardware fault”.

There's no hardware fault when a battery overheats and a fire starts then? The software works fine when the hardware sensor isn't broken.

Erm...okeedokee. That makes zero sense.

Neither does declaring there's no hardware fault because of the flight envelope. But okeedokee.

[Eric Mc]

PorkRind said:

It's a bit like India having a space program, wfh are they doing with a fleet of jets when they can't even feed all of their country?

Is there a binary choice?

Ethiopia is quite a sophisticated country and by and large, Ethiopian airlines has had a good reputation over the years.

What do you expect them to fly, Sopwith Camels?

[Lemming Train]

Status update on Max grounding : https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aeros...

[MB140]

Lemming Train said:

I'm not an expert on the finer intracacies so El Stovey is probably better positioned to comment here, but as I understand it the Max uses both sensors already, alternating between them for each flight. My "wire them up" comment was referring to having the info from BOTH sensors displayed on the screens, which is what I understand Boeing to be doing. As they are both in use already then I don't see why there would be any serviceability delays, but I'm happy to be corrected.

Lemming I’m no Boeing expert but I am an RAF Avionics Sgt with 20+ years experience on aircraft.

Most modern aircraft use multiple databus (c130j herc has 5 if my memory serves me correctly, 2 main mission computer, 2 backups although not dedicated main computers (can’t ember the name of the 2 backup computers but I could go find my q course notes) can offer a lot of the functionality.)

Now my point about ‘just wire it up’ is that nearly all analogue sensors are converted to digital for the data buses as close to the sensor as practical ( herc uses multiple LRU’s dotted around the aircraft (reduces wiring amount and weight)), my long winded point is that if the MAX already uses the second AOA sensor then there will be no need to wire it up. It’s just a case of using the data already on the data bus.

As I posted early. I’ve also spent 4 years writing software for the RAF and a simple software change for aircraft is never simple. It will involve months of testing then air trials and regression testing. My experience tells me the regression testing will be the most important and most arduous. It’s very easy to fix one issue but create other unexpected ones with very complex software.

[PorkRind]

Eric Mc said:

PorkRind said:

It's a bit like India having a space program, wfh are they doing with a fleet of jets when they can't even feed all of their country?

Is there a binary choice?

Ethiopia is quite a sophisticated country and by and large, Ethiopian airlines has had a good reputation over the years.



What do you expect them to fly, Sopwith Camels?

I expect them to resolve their social crisis first.

[dvs_dave]

768 said:

dvs_dave said:

768 said:

dvs_dave said:

Taken in isolation there is nothing particularly wrong or dangerous with the MAX’s flight envelope. i.e. no “hardware fault”.

There's no hardware fault when a battery overheats and a fire starts then? The software works fine when the hardware sensor isn't broken.

Erm...okeedokee. That makes zero sense.

Neither does declaring there's no hardware fault because of the flight envelope. But okeedokee.

There is no particular hardware fault. The MAX flies very well as evidenced by thousands of successful flights since its release.

The fault lies with trying to mask (with MCAS) an important flight envelope difference that the MAX has over the NG, specifically to negate the requirement to educate or train flight crews on how to handle it.

All aircraft have undesirable handling characteristics under certain conditions, it’s normal. The NG will do undesirable things in certain circumstances that don’t affect the MAX version. Is that a “hardware fault” on the NG?

As long as the flight crews are trained to handle it, then it’s rarely ever a problem. Can you guess which part is missing in this debacle?

[hutchst]

Social perfection?

[768]

An always working AoA sensor.

[dvs_dave]

768 said:

An always working AoA sensor.

Yep, we’re done here.

[Speed 3]

Thought I was seeing things when I was driving home from Luton today. Under the final approach a TUI Max was landing. Don't know where it was positioning from or for what reason but I didn't duck as it went overhead.

[Lemming Train]

Speed 3 said:

Thought I was seeing things when I was driving home from Luton today. Under the final approach a TUI Max was landing. Don't know where it was positioning from or for what reason but I didn't duck as it went overhead.

You were seeing things, and it wasn't a TUI Max.

[Speed 3]

What other 737's does TUI have with scimitar winglets ?

[David87]

Think TUI have some -800s with the split scimitar winglets, so they look a bit like a MAX, except without the engines.

[NoddyonNitrous]

Lemming Train said:

Speed 3 said:

Thought I was seeing things when I was driving home from Luton today. Under the final approach a TUI Max was landing. Don't know where it was positioning from or for what reason but I didn't duck as it went overhead.

You were seeing things, and it wasn't a TUI Max.

Maybe it was a drone?

[anonymous-user]

Speed 3 said:

What other 737's does TUI have with scimitar winglets ?

B738



This was the aircraft you saw.

[Speed 3]

Ah OK, stand corrected, didn't realise they were an option on the 738.

[captain_cynic]

Speed 3 said:

What other 737's does TUI have with scimitar winglets ?

The split scimitar winglets were available as an option (and a retrofit) for the 787-800 and -900 (not the -700) from 2012 or 2014 onward. They're primarily for 737's that fly long distances (2+ hours).

I flew on a COPA 737 from Panama to Chigago that had them last week.