Ethiopian plane crash
Discussion
Whistleblower calls received to FAA hotline
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/boeing-737-max-8-at-l...
Boeing CEO sticking to the line that "pilots did not completely follow procedure"
https://edition.cnn.com/2019/04/29/investing/boein...
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/boeing-737-max-8-at-l...
Boeing CEO sticking to the line that "pilots did not completely follow procedure"
https://edition.cnn.com/2019/04/29/investing/boein...
captain_cynic said:
Speed 3 said:
What other 737's does TUI have with scimitar winglets ?
The split scimitar winglets were available as an option (and a retrofit) for the 787-800 and -900 (not the -700) from 2012 or 2014 onward. They're primarily for 737's that fly long distances (2+ hours). I flew on a COPA 737 from Panama to Chigago that had them last week.
https://www.jetphotos.com/photo/9294117
Lemming Train said:
Do you even bother to do any basic research before you post in this thread? I don't think I've seen a factual post from you yet.
https://www.jetphotos.com/photo/9294117
Then you clearly haven't been looking.https://www.jetphotos.com/photo/9294117
Unlike you, I'll admit when I make a mistake. I didn't know about the -700, I thought it was just the -800 and -900 as was initially offered in 2014.
Whatever problem you have with me, it's your problem and going after technicalities is only making you look truly unhinged.
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/04/28/boeing-didnt-tell-...
Boeing did not tell Southwest Airlines, its largest 737 Max customer, that a standard safety feature designed to warn pilots about malfunctioning sensors had been deactivated on the jets.
The safety feature is an alert that lights up in the cockpit if a plane’s angle-of-attack sensors transmit faulty data about the pitch of the plane’s nose. This feature is known as an angle-of-attack disagree light and was included in previous versions of the 737.
Southwest did not know about the change until after the fatal crash of a Lion Air flight in Indonesia. The airline, in a statement to CNBC, said Boeing had indicated through its manual that the disagree lights were functional on the 737 Max.
Southwest said Boeing told the airline that the disagree lights were inoperable only after the Lion Air crash. The airline subsequently took action to turn the alerts on.
Southwest Airline’s statement:
Upon delivery (prior to the Lion Air event), the AOA Disagree lights were depicted to us by Boeing as operable on all MAX aircraft, regardless of the selection of optional AOA Indicators on the Primary Flight Display (PFD). The manual documentation presented by Boeing at Southwest’s MAX entry into service indicated the AOA Disagree Light functioned on the aircraft, similar to the Lights on our NG series. After the Lion Air event, Boeing notified us that the AOA Disagree Lights were inoperable without the optional AOA Indicators on the MAX aircraft. At that time, Southwest installed the AOA Indicators on the PFD, resulting in the activation of the AOA Disagree lights - both items now serve as an additional crosscheck on all MAX aircraft.
Edit ps southwest is a 100% Boeing customer. Since 1971 nearly 5 decades of only buying their planes. Wonder if it will stay that way.
Boeing did not tell Southwest Airlines, its largest 737 Max customer, that a standard safety feature designed to warn pilots about malfunctioning sensors had been deactivated on the jets.
The safety feature is an alert that lights up in the cockpit if a plane’s angle-of-attack sensors transmit faulty data about the pitch of the plane’s nose. This feature is known as an angle-of-attack disagree light and was included in previous versions of the 737.
Southwest did not know about the change until after the fatal crash of a Lion Air flight in Indonesia. The airline, in a statement to CNBC, said Boeing had indicated through its manual that the disagree lights were functional on the 737 Max.
Southwest said Boeing told the airline that the disagree lights were inoperable only after the Lion Air crash. The airline subsequently took action to turn the alerts on.
Southwest Airline’s statement:
Upon delivery (prior to the Lion Air event), the AOA Disagree lights were depicted to us by Boeing as operable on all MAX aircraft, regardless of the selection of optional AOA Indicators on the Primary Flight Display (PFD). The manual documentation presented by Boeing at Southwest’s MAX entry into service indicated the AOA Disagree Light functioned on the aircraft, similar to the Lights on our NG series. After the Lion Air event, Boeing notified us that the AOA Disagree Lights were inoperable without the optional AOA Indicators on the MAX aircraft. At that time, Southwest installed the AOA Indicators on the PFD, resulting in the activation of the AOA Disagree lights - both items now serve as an additional crosscheck on all MAX aircraft.
Edit ps southwest is a 100% Boeing customer. Since 1971 nearly 5 decades of only buying their planes. Wonder if it will stay that way.
Edited by Pesty on Wednesday 1st May 00:27
Does anyone know why the AOA Disagree Lights were inoperable without the optional AOA Indicators on the MAX aircraft ? Could it just be a cost issue, if so Boeing are stuffed. How could an important safety component be removed or technically not fitted, who would sign off such a major change ?
The other day I caught part of Boeing's CEO talking to share holders on the news channel, he kept going on about safety , how it is their number one priority, even in the factories that construct the aircraft, sounds like he was getting in before the s
t hit the fan.
The other day I caught part of Boeing's CEO talking to share holders on the news channel, he kept going on about safety , how it is their number one priority, even in the factories that construct the aircraft, sounds like he was getting in before the s
t hit the fan.PRTVR said:
Does anyone know why the AOA Disagree Lights were inoperable without the optional AOA Indicators on the MAX aircraft ? Could it just be a cost issue, if so Boeing are stuffed. How could an important safety component be removed or technically not fitted, who would sign off such a major change ?
The other day I caught part of Boeing's CEO talking to share holders on the news channel, he kept going on about safety , how it is their number one priority, even in the factories that construct the aircraft, sounds like he was getting in before the st hit the fan.
I’ve heard it was a cost option. ( might have even been posted in this thread) The other day I caught part of Boeing's CEO talking to share holders on the news channel, he kept going on about safety , how it is their number one priority, even in the factories that construct the aircraft, sounds like he was getting in before the s
t hit the fan.But so much flying around you don’t know what’s true at the moment,
Edit,Yes, my memory was right in. This case for a change option feature ( i think that means you had to pay for the option you had to pay for the angle of attack indicator which was extra)
Boeing says 'standard' alert system was not operable on all Max 737 airplanes
"An alert system that was supposed to be a standard feature on Boeing's 737 Max aircraft "was not operable on all airplanes," the company has said.
Boeing said in a statement Monday that the function wasn't working on some of its planes because it was mistakenly linked to an optional feature, the angle of attack (AOA) indicator.
"The disagree alert was intended to be a standard, standalone feature on MAX airplanes. However, the disagree alert was not operable on all airplanes because the feature was not activated as intended," it said. "Unless an airline opted for the angle of attack indicator, the disagree alert was not operable."
The AOA indicator lets pilots know whether one of the AOA sensors is not working. [b]The "disagree alert" shows if the sensors contradict each other. Boeing said the alert function was not necessary for the safe operation of the airplane.
Edited by Pesty on Wednesday 1st May 09:27
I think this means Boeing are f
ked. Boeing relied on single sensor for 737 Max that had been flagged 216 times to FAA
"The device linked to the Boeing 737 Max software that has been scrutinized after two deadly crashes was previously flagged in more than 200 incident reports submitted to the Federal Aviation Administration, but Boeing did not flight test a scenario in which it malfunctioned, CNN has learned.
The angle-of-attack (AOA) sensor, as it's known, sends data to a 737 Max software system that pushes the nose of the aircraft down if it senses an imminent stall. That software, triggered by erroneous data from AOA sensors, is believed to have played a role in crashes of Lion Air and Ethiopian Airlines jets.
This was sent to me, it's an overview of the problems with the max, most of which have been covered on this thread, but still an interesting read.
https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/2/18518176/boeing-...
https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/2/18518176/boeing-...
PRTVR said:
This was sent to me, it's an overview of the problems with the max, most of which have been covered on this thread, but still an interesting read.
https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/2/18518176/boeing-...
Really interesting and well written https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/2/18518176/boeing-...
Pesty said:
'Employees have found a ladder and a string of lights left inside the tails of planes, near the gears of the horizontal stabilizer....'I'm not even sure where to go after this...
As an RAF (Retired) Techie, I have no idea how anyone can even think this is s**t working practices, let alone anything better than s**t!
FOD, Tool Control and Wiring Husbandry are drummed into us almost from Day 1 Training. What are they doing in Charleston?
Metal shavings on wiring looms? Really? Modern Aircraft wiring is not like the wiring in your kettle! It is thin walled and, well, 'dainty'.
This is what happens when you employ 'non-aircraft' techies on aircraft. The 'culture' of safety is not there! Boeing need to get a grip!
FF
Fat Fairy said:
Metal shavings on wiring looms? Really? Modern Aircraft wiring is not like the wiring in your kettle! It is thin walled and, well, 'dainty'.
Take it they didn't learn anything from Swissair 111 then? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swissair_Flight_111That’s just the factory. Nothing about all the outsourced parts and poor oversight and quality control with them.
Unfortunately what’s in the press isn’t half of what’s going on.
Boeing have a lot to sort out. Hopefully this will encourage them to step back and take a top down look at how they’ve been doing things for the last few years.
Unfortunately what’s in the press isn’t half of what’s going on.
Boeing have a lot to sort out. Hopefully this will encourage them to step back and take a top down look at how they’ve been doing things for the last few years.
TeamD said:
Who said that the court cases had to be held in the US?
Its a bit hard to try an American company in Hong Kong. Treaties and jurisdictions apply, I highly doubt the US will extradite US execs for laws they themselves don't have. It's far more likely, if negligence can be established, they'll be tried in the US under US law.
TeamD said:
Who said that the court cases had to be held in the US?
I read recently (couldn't tell you where) that Boeing were trying to get cases heard in Indonesia, but the Lawyers representing (some? all?) the families wanted it in the US because Indonesia has less punitive regulations, and, as far as they are concerned, Boeing are a US company, the Boeing workforce is US, and the FAA are a US Federal agency. In other words, good luck getting anything out of a US company from outside the US.
FF
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