No gas boilers in new homes after 2025.
Discussion
Biker 1 said:
My place is 15 years old & has way more insulation than building regulations required at the time. The problem is that it is almost hermetically sealed, so wherever there is the slightest cold bridge, like around windows/doors, mould will almost instantly form, especially in the bathroom. The solution? Leave a couple of windows ajar for ventilation, which of course means that a whole load of energy escapes.....
Our house is around the same age and the trickle vents in the double glazed windows seem to do the job of preventing condensation.I suppose that you are losing heat through the trickle vents but ventilation is unavoidable unless you want condensation and mould as you say. Based on my time watching Grand designs I think the only way around that would be ventilation using a heat exchanger.
JagLover said:
Our house is around the same age and the trickle vents in the double glazed windows seem to do the job of preventing condensation.
I suppose that you are losing heat through the trickle vents but ventilation is unavoidable unless you want condensation and mould as you say. Based on my time watching Grand designs I think the only way around that would be ventilation using a heat exchanger.
I also have trickle vents - windows still condensate really badly. I have tried umpteen different mitigation methods, including a dehumidifier, but opening windows & front door for an hour-ish every day in the winter is about the only solution I found that works..I suppose that you are losing heat through the trickle vents but ventilation is unavoidable unless you want condensation and mould as you say. Based on my time watching Grand designs I think the only way around that would be ventilation using a heat exchanger.
JagLover said:
Biker 1 said:
My place is 15 years old & has way more insulation than building regulations required at the time. The problem is that it is almost hermetically sealed, so wherever there is the slightest cold bridge, like around windows/doors, mould will almost instantly form, especially in the bathroom. The solution? Leave a couple of windows ajar for ventilation, which of course means that a whole load of energy escapes.....
Our house is around the same age and the trickle vents in the double glazed windows seem to do the job of preventing condensation.I suppose that you are losing heat through the trickle vents but ventilation is unavoidable unless you want condensation and mould as you say. Based on my time watching Grand designs I think the only way around that would be ventilation using a heat exchanger.
rxe said:
Hardly anyone lives in a suitable new build.
Some friends are building a new house, and they have the option to go GSHP at the design stage. It is fearsomely expensive - looks like about 30 - 40k, which negates about a century of potential energy savings. And the other thing to bear in mind is that these things needs to be running all the time - they are somewhat unsuited to a typical “come home at 6, want the house to be warm” life that most people lead. If you’re in the house all day, you’ll probably win. But the sort of person that goes out to work will win much less.
You absolutely can’t spanner xSHP into an existing system without major (very expensive) changes.
Of course your broad and deep experience is true of everyone Some friends are building a new house, and they have the option to go GSHP at the design stage. It is fearsomely expensive - looks like about 30 - 40k, which negates about a century of potential energy savings. And the other thing to bear in mind is that these things needs to be running all the time - they are somewhat unsuited to a typical “come home at 6, want the house to be warm” life that most people lead. If you’re in the house all day, you’ll probably win. But the sort of person that goes out to work will win much less.
You absolutely can’t spanner xSHP into an existing system without major (very expensive) changes.
Their price for a GSHP isn't typical, infact it's about 2-3 times the normal cost. How many bore holes? How deep? What's the substrate? What's access like? Or are they going for surface pipes?
You don't run them constantly. You keep the temperature consistent. That means different things depending on your insulation, thermal mass, occupancy etc.
New builds aren't great, certainly not as good as they could be, but most are suitable enough for heat pumps. The biggest issue for them is then space and noise. Everyone running ASHP would be a pain. No space for GSHP.
Which is why community owned heat pump clusters are a better idea. Caerau mine works are an example, but there are loads of opportunities using Ground Source and Water source.
rxe said:
Hardly anyone lives in a suitable new build.
Some friends are building a new house, and they have the option to go GSHP at the design stage. It is fearsomely expensive - looks like about 30 - 40k, which negates about a century of potential energy savings.
...factor in replacing the heat pump once or twice and you push that time frame out (bringing in further heat pump changes) towards the end-of-life point of the coils.Some friends are building a new house, and they have the option to go GSHP at the design stage. It is fearsomely expensive - looks like about 30 - 40k, which negates about a century of potential energy savings.
Biker 1 said:
My place is 15 years old & has way more insulation than building regulations required at the time. The problem is that it is almost hermetically sealed, so wherever there is the slightest cold bridge, like around windows/doors, mould will almost instantly form, especially in the bathroom. The solution? Leave a couple of windows ajar for ventilation, which of course means that a whole load of energy escapes.....
We have this issue and cracking windows open just makes it cold in the window reveal so that's where we get condensation.I guess if the house is close to hermetically sealed then it needs MVHR - but there's a body of opinion that they're not a great idea.
You could always use a dehumidifier - and just quietly suffocate!
Sheepshanks said:
We have this issue and cracking windows open just makes it cold in the window reveal so that's where we get condensation.
I guess if the house is close to hermetically sealed then it needs MVHR - but there's a body of opinion that they're not a great idea.
You could always use a dehumidifier - and just quietly suffocate!
Positive Input Ventilation is an excellent solution to this issue. IMO it should be mandated by Building Regulations with the increasing move towards higher levels or insulation and air tightness in modern homes.I guess if the house is close to hermetically sealed then it needs MVHR - but there's a body of opinion that they're not a great idea.
You could always use a dehumidifier - and just quietly suffocate!
Lotobear said:
Positive Input Ventilation is an excellent solution to this issue. IMO it should be mandated by Building Regulations with the increasing move towards higher levels or insulation and air tightness in modern homes.
Supposedly PIV doesn't work well in increasingly 'air-tight' homes - I guess for obvious reasons.Biggy Stardust said:
JuniorD said:
I presume you could still retrofit a gas boiler into a new built home if you really wanted to?
I suspect the ban will be on running a gas pipe to the house. Cookers will probably be banned too, for green reasons.Of course that can change, but the question will be, When?
They have recently build a new gas powered power station near to me and it seems that the majority of power generated is from gas these days.
https://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/
Also there are quite a few gas powered ones in the UK and all seem to be fairly new- certainly most built in the last 20 years.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_active_gas_f...
Gas will run out eventually, that obvious. Is it not just as simple as the government/power generators wanting to keep the gas that is left for themselves instead of letting the consumer burn it and then they will use that gas to generate electricity which they can then sell to the same consumers at much greater cost than the gas would have been. Seems obvious to me to be fair.
https://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/
Also there are quite a few gas powered ones in the UK and all seem to be fairly new- certainly most built in the last 20 years.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_active_gas_f...
Gas will run out eventually, that obvious. Is it not just as simple as the government/power generators wanting to keep the gas that is left for themselves instead of letting the consumer burn it and then they will use that gas to generate electricity which they can then sell to the same consumers at much greater cost than the gas would have been. Seems obvious to me to be fair.
Edited by scottyp123 on Thursday 19th November 11:37
Biggy Stardust said:
JuniorD said:
I presume you could still retrofit a gas boiler into a new built home if you really wanted to?
I suspect the ban will be on running a gas pipe to the house. Cookers will probably be banned too, for green reasons.The 'problem' of new build houses fitting gas boilers after the ban will be ended by simply refusing a gas connection.
Very few new homes use gas for hobs now anyway, it's all electric induction. The only thing that will be connected to gas in our new home will be the boiler. The kitchen is all electric and the small stove effect fireplace in the living room will be electric.
The kitchen/snug area will have a traditional log stove, which will no doubt be banned shortly as well, but I'm fitting one while I have the opportunity to do so.
Lord Marylebone said:
I agree.
The 'problem' of new build houses fitting gas boilers after the ban will be ended by simply refusing a gas connection.
Very few new homes use gas for hobs now anyway, it's all electric induction. The only thing that will be connected to gas in our new home will be the boiler. The kitchen is all electric and the small stove effect fireplace in the living room will be electric.
The kitchen/snug area will have a traditional log stove, which will no doubt be banned shortly as well, but I'm fitting one while I have the opportunity to do so.
How will wet UFH be heated if you need to replace your boiler? The 'problem' of new build houses fitting gas boilers after the ban will be ended by simply refusing a gas connection.
Very few new homes use gas for hobs now anyway, it's all electric induction. The only thing that will be connected to gas in our new home will be the boiler. The kitchen is all electric and the small stove effect fireplace in the living room will be electric.
The kitchen/snug area will have a traditional log stove, which will no doubt be banned shortly as well, but I'm fitting one while I have the opportunity to do so.
What about the radiators? All wet central heating.
Lord Marylebone said:
The kitchen/snug area will have a traditional log stove, which will no doubt be banned shortly as well, but I'm fitting one while I have the opportunity to do so.
I'd fit one too if I wanted one, but there's so many around us now that on cool still evenings it's quite irritating being outside.Lord Marylebone said:
Biggy Stardust said:
JuniorD said:
I presume you could still retrofit a gas boiler into a new built home if you really wanted to?
I suspect the ban will be on running a gas pipe to the house. Cookers will probably be banned too, for green reasons.The 'problem' of new build houses fitting gas boilers after the ban will be ended by simply refusing a gas connection.
Evanivitch said:
Of course your broad and deep experience is true of everyone
Their price for a GSHP isn't typical, infact it's about 2-3 times the normal cost. How many bore holes? How deep? What's the substrate? What's access like? Or are they going for surface pipes?
You don't run them constantly. You keep the temperature consistent. That means different things depending on your insulation, thermal mass, occupancy etc.
New builds aren't great, certainly not as good as they could be, but most are suitable enough for heat pumps. The biggest issue for them is then space and noise. Everyone running ASHP would be a pain. No space for GSHP.
Which is why community owned heat pump clusters are a better idea. Caerau mine works are an example, but there are loads of opportunities using Ground Source and Water source.
Dunno - they seem to be in the range of the energy saving trust figures:Their price for a GSHP isn't typical, infact it's about 2-3 times the normal cost. How many bore holes? How deep? What's the substrate? What's access like? Or are they going for surface pipes?
You don't run them constantly. You keep the temperature consistent. That means different things depending on your insulation, thermal mass, occupancy etc.
New builds aren't great, certainly not as good as they could be, but most are suitable enough for heat pumps. The biggest issue for them is then space and noise. Everyone running ASHP would be a pain. No space for GSHP.
Which is why community owned heat pump clusters are a better idea. Caerau mine works are an example, but there are loads of opportunities using Ground Source and Water source.
https://www.greenmatch.co.uk/heat-pump/ground-sour...
Boreholes by the way.
This is about the same ballpark price that we were given when we considered it as part of our building works. ASHP was 24 grand, but apparently it would save us 1600 a year. Which is more than our gas bill in the first place. Needless to say, we didn’t do it. Solar panels with FITS on the other hand have been great.
rxe said:
Dunno - they seem to be in the range of the energy saving trust figures:
https://www.greenmatch.co.uk/heat-pump/ground-sour...
Boreholes by the way.
This is about the same ballpark price that we were given when we considered it as part of our building works. ASHP was 24 grand, but apparently it would save us 1600 a year. Which is more than our gas bill in the first place. Needless to say, we didn’t do it. Solar panels with FITS on the other hand have been great.
Sounds like it's an exceptionally large property then, with half a dozen or more very deep boreholes.https://www.greenmatch.co.uk/heat-pump/ground-sour...
Boreholes by the way.
This is about the same ballpark price that we were given when we considered it as part of our building works. ASHP was 24 grand, but apparently it would save us 1600 a year. Which is more than our gas bill in the first place. Needless to say, we didn’t do it. Solar panels with FITS on the other hand have been great.
For public reference, energy saving trust would provide a completely different estimate.
https://energysavingtrust.org.uk/advice/ground-sou...
You also get a renewable heating payment for air or ground source to-water heat pump systems.
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