Mass shooting in NZ mosque
Discussion
TheGuru said:
In that regard it’s been handed to them on a plate.
But in reality the Jacinda you see is more genuine than not, the rest of the world has just become too jaded.
I’ve seen her at a couple of formal occasions, she’ll chat and joke with the normal people, completely natural. Her husband is a media personality as well, but you’d bump into him in the street and he’s be up for a chat. The previous prime minister, John Key, lives in my suburb, see him regularly walking around and at local cafes. That sort of stuff doesn’t happen in many places these days, it’s incredibly down to earth.
The stuff you’ve seen with women wearing veils and all the other acts of empathy are just Kiwis being Kiwis. There is no submission or takeover by Islam.
In fact, the way Jacinda has handled this has been more productive for Islam/Western relations than anything else in done in the past 30 years by all the middle-aged, warmongering white men.
She has effectively de-escalated the whole thing, look at the comments from Muslims on social media - a marked lack of aggression with lots of them thankful for the tolerance. Her actions have very possibly minimized potential revenge attacks.
Excellent post. But in reality the Jacinda you see is more genuine than not, the rest of the world has just become too jaded.
I’ve seen her at a couple of formal occasions, she’ll chat and joke with the normal people, completely natural. Her husband is a media personality as well, but you’d bump into him in the street and he’s be up for a chat. The previous prime minister, John Key, lives in my suburb, see him regularly walking around and at local cafes. That sort of stuff doesn’t happen in many places these days, it’s incredibly down to earth.
The stuff you’ve seen with women wearing veils and all the other acts of empathy are just Kiwis being Kiwis. There is no submission or takeover by Islam.
In fact, the way Jacinda has handled this has been more productive for Islam/Western relations than anything else in done in the past 30 years by all the middle-aged, warmongering white men.
She has effectively de-escalated the whole thing, look at the comments from Muslims on social media - a marked lack of aggression with lots of them thankful for the tolerance. Her actions have very possibly minimized potential revenge attacks.
Edited by TheGuru on Saturday 23 March 02:45
Ahbefive said:
Brooking10 said:
Ahbefive said:
TheGuru said:
In fact, the way Jacinda has handled this has been more productive for Islam/Western relations than anything else in done in the past 30 years by all the middle-aged, warmongering white men.
So what black/muslim leaders have done anything to aid Islam/Western relations? Is it just the job of "the white man" is it?What black or Muslim leaders have made great strides to improve relations? Even Obama did bugger all.
So just to be 100% clear we are now moving on from discussing the merits or otherwise of Islam to “have any non white people ever done anything to improve race relations “ ?
Oh and white people don’t create dictatorships and oppress their people ?
Strong work, even by your “Most British people in the UAE are Muslims and were born outside of the U.K.” standards.
Edited by anonymous-user on Saturday 23 March 13:00
I see the 'Official Censor' has banned possession and distribution of the 'Madifesto' in NZ.
I'm split on this one; on the one hand it calms sensibilities further, it shows, politically, that the govt. is sympathetic and it was a troll-piece of s
te anyway but on the other, censorship, discussion, context, precedent, judgement and liberty issues...
I'm generally of the mind that sunlight is a good disinfectant, and hiding things away makes things worse, but here...am I being too pernickety?
I'm split on this one; on the one hand it calms sensibilities further, it shows, politically, that the govt. is sympathetic and it was a troll-piece of s
te anyway but on the other, censorship, discussion, context, precedent, judgement and liberty issues...I'm generally of the mind that sunlight is a good disinfectant, and hiding things away makes things worse, but here...am I being too pernickety?
andy_s said:
I see the 'Official Censor' has banned possession and distribution of the 'Madifesto' in NZ.
I'm split on this one; on the one hand it calms sensibilities further, it shows, politically, that the govt. is sympathetic and it was a troll-piece of ste anyway but on the other, censorship, discussion, context, precedent, judgement and liberty issues...
I'm generally of the mind that sunlight is a good disinfectant, and hiding things away makes things worse, but here...am I being too pernickety?
Meanwhile, back on planet Earth, I see Erdogan is using live stream footage in his campaigns. Not to worry, Nz’s Deputy PM flies over to demand he stops. But fails to even bring it up. That’s the issue with Jacindas lot. An inexperienced young person who talks the talk but has no balls. I'm split on this one; on the one hand it calms sensibilities further, it shows, politically, that the govt. is sympathetic and it was a troll-piece of s
te anyway but on the other, censorship, discussion, context, precedent, judgement and liberty issues...I'm generally of the mind that sunlight is a good disinfectant, and hiding things away makes things worse, but here...am I being too pernickety?
TheGuru said:
j_4m said:
The cynic in me can't help but see a really nice photo-op for the NZ government, just as it's about to pass some legislation that is going to annoy a lot of people.
In that regard it’s been handed to them on a plate.But in reality the Jacinda you see is more genuine than not, the rest of the world has just become too jaded.
I’ve seen her at a couple of formal occasions, she’ll chat and joke with the normal people, completely natural. Her husband is a media personality as well, but you’d bump into him in the street and he’s be up for a chat. The previous prime minister, John Key, lives in my suburb, see him regularly walking around and at local cafes. That sort of stuff doesn’t happen in many places these days, it’s incredibly down to earth.
The stuff you’ve seen with women wearing veils and all the other acts of empathy are just Kiwis being Kiwis. There is no submission or takeover by Islam.
In fact, the way Jacinda has handled this has been more productive for Islam/Western relations than anything else in done in the past 30 years by all the middle-aged, warmongering white men.
She has effectively de-escalated the whole thing, look at the comments from Muslims on social media - a marked lack of aggression with lots of them thankful for the tolerance. Her actions have very possibly minimized potential revenge attacks.
Edited by TheGuru on Saturday 23 March 02:45
Well said. As an expat Kiwi living in the UK for thirty years I have little interest in NZ politics but I have been proud of the way NZ and Jacinda have responded to this event.
My other half (who is English) has repeatedly commented on the wonderful way Jacinda has handled it and has a stronger than ever desire to travel to NZ to experience the culture for herself. My work colleagues (English, Asian and middle Eastern) have all similarly commented positively. Outside this thread I have seen no criticism whatsoever.
ATB.
Burwood said:
An inexperienced young person who talks the talk but has no balls.
Are you referring to Winston Peters here? There are a lot of words I would use to describe him, but young and inexperienced aren't among them. Certainly short in the testicular fortitude department in this case though. Inexcusable blunder on his part.
Brooking10 said:
Right
So just to be 100% clear we are now moving on from discussing the merits or otherwise of Islam to “have any non white people ever done anything to improve race relations “ ?
I'm not sure what you are banging on about, I was just commenting on another posters post that was basically saying it's all the fault of the middle aged white man for not improving race relations..... I would not have commented of it was not for that.So just to be 100% clear we are now moving on from discussing the merits or otherwise of Islam to “have any non white people ever done anything to improve race relations “ ?
I see nobody has answered about which black or Muslim leaders have made strides in improving relations........probably because there are none.
Edited by Ahbefive on Monday 25th March 06:26
Burwood said:
Meanwhile, back on planet Earth, I see Erdogan is using live stream footage in his campaigns. Not to worry, Nz’s Deputy PM flies over to demand he stops. But fails to even bring it up. That’s the issue with Jacindas lot. An inexperienced young person who talks the talk but has no balls.
Winston is a fg disgrace!Hopefully, voters remember this next year and his whole self serving party are gone.
TheGuru said:
In that regard it’s been handed to them on a plate.
But in reality the Jacinda you see is more genuine than not, the rest of the world has just become too jaded.
I’ve seen her at a couple of formal occasions, she’ll chat and joke with the normal people, completely natural. Her husband is a media personality as well, but you’d bump into him in the street and he’s be up for a chat. The previous prime minister, John Key, lives in my suburb, see him regularly walking around and at local cafes. That sort of stuff doesn’t happen in many places these days, it’s incredibly down to earth.
The stuff you’ve seen with women wearing veils and all the other acts of empathy are just Kiwis being Kiwis. There is no submission or takeover by Islam.
In fact, the way Jacinda has handled this has been more productive for Islam/Western relations than anything else in done in the past 30 years by all the middle-aged, warmongering white men.
She has effectively de-escalated the whole thing, look at the comments from Muslims on social media - a marked lack of aggression with lots of them thankful for the tolerance. Her actions have very possibly minimized potential revenge attacks.
She’s come across as an impressive leader - she’s acted decisively taking swift action but more than that she’s shown genuine empathy which is something you rarely see from our leaders these days.But in reality the Jacinda you see is more genuine than not, the rest of the world has just become too jaded.
I’ve seen her at a couple of formal occasions, she’ll chat and joke with the normal people, completely natural. Her husband is a media personality as well, but you’d bump into him in the street and he’s be up for a chat. The previous prime minister, John Key, lives in my suburb, see him regularly walking around and at local cafes. That sort of stuff doesn’t happen in many places these days, it’s incredibly down to earth.
The stuff you’ve seen with women wearing veils and all the other acts of empathy are just Kiwis being Kiwis. There is no submission or takeover by Islam.
In fact, the way Jacinda has handled this has been more productive for Islam/Western relations than anything else in done in the past 30 years by all the middle-aged, warmongering white men.
She has effectively de-escalated the whole thing, look at the comments from Muslims on social media - a marked lack of aggression with lots of them thankful for the tolerance. Her actions have very possibly minimized potential revenge attacks.
Edited by TheGuru on Saturday 23 March 02:45
Tony Starks said:
Burwood said:
Meanwhile, back on planet Earth, I see Erdogan is using live stream footage in his campaigns. Not to worry, Nz’s Deputy PM flies over to demand he stops. But fails to even bring it up. That’s the issue with Jacindas lot. An inexperienced young person who talks the talk but has no balls.
Winston is a fg disgrace!Hopefully, voters remember this next year and his whole self serving party are gone.
BlackLabel said:
She’s come across as an impressive leader - she’s acted decisively taking swift action but more than that she’s shown genuine empathy which is something you rarely see from our leaders these days.
Imagine in the land of the looneys they would want more guns.She really does seem a strong leader.
Thesprucegoose said:
BlackLabel said:
She’s come across as an impressive leader - she’s acted decisively taking swift action but more than that she’s shown genuine empathy which is something you rarely see from our leaders these days.
Imagine in the land of the looneys they would want more guns.She really does seem a strong leader.
It'll change nothing, they never do. Maybe if more people in NZ had handguns he would not have killed as many as he did.
andy_s said:
I see the 'Official Censor' has banned possession and distribution of the 'Madifesto' in NZ.
I'm split on this one; on the one hand it calms sensibilities further, it shows, politically, that the govt. is sympathetic and it was a troll-piece of ste anyway but on the other, censorship, discussion, context, precedent, judgement and liberty issues...
I'm generally of the mind that sunlight is a good disinfectant, and hiding things away makes things worse, but here...am I being too pernickety?
I see this as the same exemption that is made for shouting fire in a crowded theatre. It's speech that is purposely directed to cause harm, and there's plenty of cases of it being banned. Hitchens was ferociously against it though: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3Hg-Y7MugU.I'm split on this one; on the one hand it calms sensibilities further, it shows, politically, that the govt. is sympathetic and it was a troll-piece of s
te anyway but on the other, censorship, discussion, context, precedent, judgement and liberty issues...I'm generally of the mind that sunlight is a good disinfectant, and hiding things away makes things worse, but here...am I being too pernickety?
desolate said:
Brads67 said:
Maybe if more people in NZ had handguns he would not have killed as many as he did.
How do you work that out?Surely if one person had been armed and had shot him early then gunlaws would be lauded not derided.
Brads67 said:
desolate said:
Brads67 said:
Maybe if more people in NZ had handguns he would not have killed as many as he did.
How do you work that out?Surely if one person had been armed and had shot him early then gunlaws would be lauded not derided.
What’s the NZ equivalent of concealed permit
?
Do you think many places of worship would allow guns to be carried on the premises ?
Are there are examples which show armed citizens’ interventions bringing mass shootings to a conclusion ?
Brads67 said:
What do you mean ? Pretty simple to me. Armed people shoot bad people before bad people shoot more unarmed people.
Surely if one person had been armed and had shot him early then gunlaws would be lauded not derided.
99% of cases, Bad people shoot good people first, and generally good people don't carry guns. Surely if one person had been armed and had shot him early then gunlaws would be lauded not derided.
Simplest solution, ban any sort of fire arm to any citizens.
Brads67 said:
What do you mean ? Pretty simple to me. Armed people shoot bad people before bad people shoot more unarmed people.
Surely if one person had been armed and had shot him early then gunlaws would be lauded not derided.
Yes, it's pretty simple. Well done - QED so have a biscuit.Surely if one person had been armed and had shot him early then gunlaws would be lauded not derided.
Brads67 said:
What do you mean ? Pretty simple to me. Armed people shoot bad people before bad people shoot more unarmed people.
Surely if one person had been armed and had shot him early then gunlaws would be lauded not derided.
Because as we all know, the good guys with guns are highlighted by a blue dorito above their head whilst the bad guys with guns have the orange dorito above their head Surely if one person had been armed and had shot him early then gunlaws would be lauded not derided.
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