Mass shooting in NZ mosque
Discussion
What point are people making with the Nigerian terrorism?
That there are double standards?
There are, but the double standard is we don’t care as much about Nigeria.
If you’re going to draw comparisons then compare coverage in comparable counties when terror attacks happen in France, Germany, Belgium etc.
That there are double standards?
There are, but the double standard is we don’t care as much about Nigeria.
If you’re going to draw comparisons then compare coverage in comparable counties when terror attacks happen in France, Germany, Belgium etc.
El stovey said:
e46m3Mark said:
Is it a good view from up there?
Yeah anyone who says it’s sick to watch videos of people being murdered is being a bit judgmental. Perfectly normal to seek out videos of people being slaughtered and post about how graphic it was with graphic descriptions just so everyone knows.
This is the reason why many gobby middle-class students seek out horror and death through music and film in order to feel 'something' whilst kids from working class backgrounds just get on with it and become our soldiers, police and paramedics.
One group actually grows up while the other become big babies crying on the internet when this weeks 'minority' is affected.
Cerdo Espada said:
Its a symptom of leftism. Along with childishness, obfuscation and delusions of grandeur there is also need to shock themselves with images of horror, usually due to a lack of exposure to real life and things around them happening by magic.
This is the reason why many gobby middle-class students seek out horror and death through music and film in order to feel 'something' whilst kids from working class backgrounds just get on with it and become our soldiers, police and paramedics.
One group actually grows up while the other become big babies crying on the internet when this weeks 'minority' is affected.
What ??!!This is the reason why many gobby middle-class students seek out horror and death through music and film in order to feel 'something' whilst kids from working class backgrounds just get on with it and become our soldiers, police and paramedics.
One group actually grows up while the other become big babies crying on the internet when this weeks 'minority' is affected.
Wow.
That’s a quite remarkable post.
Cerdo Espada said:
El stovey said:
e46m3Mark said:
Is it a good view from up there?
Yeah anyone who says it’s sick to watch videos of people being murdered is being a bit judgmental. Perfectly normal to seek out videos of people being slaughtered and post about how graphic it was with graphic descriptions just so everyone knows.
This is the reason why many gobby middle-class students seek out horror and death through music and film in order to feel 'something' whilst kids from working class backgrounds just get on with it and become our soldiers, police and paramedics.
One group actually grows up while the other become big babies crying on the internet when this weeks 'minority' is affected.
The police are more likely to be middle-class students who also ‘get on with it’.
Was your post a parody to attempt to lighten the topic a bit?
La Liga said:
Cerdo Espada said:
El stovey said:
e46m3Mark said:
Is it a good view from up there?
Yeah anyone who says it’s sick to watch videos of people being murdered is being a bit judgmental. Perfectly normal to seek out videos of people being slaughtered and post about how graphic it was with graphic descriptions just so everyone knows.
This is the reason why many gobby middle-class students seek out horror and death through music and film in order to feel 'something' whilst kids from working class backgrounds just get on with it and become our soldiers, police and paramedics.
One group actually grows up while the other become big babies crying on the internet when this weeks 'minority' is affected.
The police are more likely to be middle-class students who also ‘get on with it’.
Was your post a parody to lighten the topic a bit?
Just like to point out that I didn't seek any video out (to watch) and I explained my reason for doing so earlier. That said, I did that more as a courtesy than down to any real need or desire to justify myself to anyone calling me sick. I've actually watched films of all manner of disturbing subjects, as part of my work and a desire to better understand specific subjects, situations, people etc.
La Liga said:
DurianIceCream said:
This isn't a failure of firearms laws. It's a failure of somebody who seems have to have been posting nutter comments online for quite a while to go unnoticed, not be watched and still have a firearms licence. It's no more a fault of gun laws than people driving Iveco trucks around into crowds is a fault of heavy vehicle licensing laws.
If you prohibit the weapons he used then he becomes a criminal for possessing them / their availability is reduced. The attempted acquisition and possession then becomes much riskier.It may be the case he practiced with them to be as effective somewhere like a range etc. Again, that becomes a ‘no no’ if they’re prohibited.
Had the availability been limited to the weapons he could have realistically acquired in the UK, I think it’d be say there’d have been a fraction of the deaths.
You could say that maybe you should ban the semi-automatic centrefire rifles which were shown on the news outlets which carried some of his video footage. You would not be able to kill as many people as fast with a manually loaded rifle.
However he started off with a semi-automatic shotgun. You can buy a semi-automatic shotgun in the UK. Infact you can buy as many semi-automatic shotguns in the UK as you like once you have a shotgun certificate. You would be limited in magazine capacity, but then you could buy the parts to increase the magazine capacity here in the UK just as you could in NZ.
Even if it were so that he had less guns, or different guns and he 'only' managed to kill half as many people, that would still be an failure to police who has a firearms licence in NZ, given that it seems he made a number of public domain posts which should have marked him as a nutter unfit to own guns.
Cerdo Espada said:
steve_k said:
DurianIceCream said:
durbster said:
Pesty said:
Would be great yeah, perhaps have a chat with these guys.
This was 11 days ago. Didn’t even make the news
Muslims murder 32 Christians in a church.
https://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/cwn/2019/march/radica...
It didn't make the news yet you link to a story from The Guardian? This was 11 days ago. Didn’t even make the news
Muslims murder 32 Christians in a church.
https://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/cwn/2019/march/radica...
The numbers getting murdered by these sort of animals are shocking.
https://storymaps.esri.com/stories/terrorist-attac...
Last June, Fulani herdsmen, who are mostly Muslim attacked six predominantly Christian villages in Nigeria's Plateau state. Many of those killed were Christians, and they were reportedly hacked to death.
According to the Global Terrorism Index, Fulani herdsmen have killed more than 60,000 people since 2001.
60.000 !
This isn't a new thing in Africa...
e46m3Mark said:
Just like to point out that I didn't seek any video out (to watch) and I explained my reason for doing so earlier. That said, I did that more as a courtesy than down to any real need or desire to justify myself to anyone calling me sick. I've actually watched films of all manner of disturbing subjects, as part of my work and a desire to better understand specific subjects, situations, people etc.
I've sat through the wobbly cell phone videos of pretty much all the horrific incidents of the past two decades that I can get my hands on; I advise people how to react in similar situations so it's invaluable from that perspective. I've spoken before about the 'immediacy of experience', which I think there should be more of, if I'm honest, in the mainstream, but I do also get that some [most?] will look and gawp at it from the same ghoulish feeling that you get driving past a bad smash.
king hellDurianIceCream said:
What he used was already illegal, because he used high capacity magazines which are not legal in NZ. Making things illegal does not stop bad people doing bad things.
You could say that maybe you should ban the semi-automatic centrefire rifles which were shown on the news outlets which carried some of his video footage. You would not be able to kill as many people as fast with a manually loaded rifle.
However he started off with a semi-automatic shotgun. You can buy a semi-automatic shotgun in the UK. Infact you can buy as many semi-automatic shotguns in the UK as you like once you have a shotgun certificate. You would be limited in magazine capacity, but then you could buy the parts to increase the magazine capacity here in the UK just as you could in NZ.
Even if it were so that he had less guns, or different guns and he 'only' managed to kill half as many people, that would still be an failure to police who has a firearms licence in NZ, given that it seems he made a number of public domain posts which should have marked him as a nutter unfit to own guns.
I believe there’s no magazine size limit on shotguns on an FAC, so you could own something like this legally in the UK on an FAC. There is legally nothing stopping a similar shooting happening in this country, save local firearms officers being sensible about what they allow people to put on their certificates.You could say that maybe you should ban the semi-automatic centrefire rifles which were shown on the news outlets which carried some of his video footage. You would not be able to kill as many people as fast with a manually loaded rifle.
However he started off with a semi-automatic shotgun. You can buy a semi-automatic shotgun in the UK. Infact you can buy as many semi-automatic shotguns in the UK as you like once you have a shotgun certificate. You would be limited in magazine capacity, but then you could buy the parts to increase the magazine capacity here in the UK just as you could in NZ.
Even if it were so that he had less guns, or different guns and he 'only' managed to kill half as many people, that would still be an failure to police who has a firearms licence in NZ, given that it seems he made a number of public domain posts which should have marked him as a nutter unfit to own guns.
Gun control does not stop mass shootings like this one. A really determined nutcase will find a way.
I agree with the comments made above.
The core of this problem is that while we think that GCHQ are analysing every post we put up, and we may get prosecuted shortly for discussing conspiracy theories, what the authorities fail to do is pick up people who, to us, might be characterised as lunatics.
You might characterise these people as sick and pitiful were it not for the premeditated brutality of their crimes. However, from the Dunblane child killer, Breivik, the sick adolescent who recently killed the little girl, to this nutter, they had an electronic trail, some of them had weapons. They were obvious lunatics. But no one picks them up. That would be an infringement of their liberties. Furthermore, policeman who, for example, refused a gun licence to the Dunblane maniac would probably have been sacked.
PC.
The core of this problem is that while we think that GCHQ are analysing every post we put up, and we may get prosecuted shortly for discussing conspiracy theories, what the authorities fail to do is pick up people who, to us, might be characterised as lunatics.
You might characterise these people as sick and pitiful were it not for the premeditated brutality of their crimes. However, from the Dunblane child killer, Breivik, the sick adolescent who recently killed the little girl, to this nutter, they had an electronic trail, some of them had weapons. They were obvious lunatics. But no one picks them up. That would be an infringement of their liberties. Furthermore, policeman who, for example, refused a gun licence to the Dunblane maniac would probably have been sacked.
PC.
DurianIceCream said:
What he used was already illegal, because he used high capacity magazines which are not legal in NZ. Making things illegal does not stop bad people doing bad things.
It doesn’t, but it increases the risk to the person trying to acquire and possess. That also doesn’t address the availability aspect which is key. High capacity magazines become irrelevant when you can’t get (or it becomes very hard to get) the gun in the first place.
DurianIceCream said:
You could say that maybe you should ban the semi-automatic centrefire rifles which were shown on the news outlets which carried some of his video footage. You would not be able to kill as many people as fast with a manually loaded rifle.
However he started off with a semi-automatic shotgun. You can buy a semi-automatic shotgun in the UK. Infact you can buy as many semi-automatic shotguns in the UK as you like once you have a shotgun certificate. You would be limited in magazine capacity, but then you could buy the parts to increase the magazine capacity here in the UK just as you could in NZ.
The ‘however’ leads to a false equivalence. A semi-automatic shotgun, even with an increased capacity is no where near as effective as the semi-automatic rifle/s he used. Probably why he chose to use the latter rather more than the former. However he started off with a semi-automatic shotgun. You can buy a semi-automatic shotgun in the UK. Infact you can buy as many semi-automatic shotguns in the UK as you like once you have a shotgun certificate. You would be limited in magazine capacity, but then you could buy the parts to increase the magazine capacity here in the UK just as you could in NZ.
DurianIceCream said:
Even if it were so that he had less guns, or different guns and he 'only' managed to kill half as many people, that would still be an failure to police who has a firearms licence in NZ, given that it seems he made a number of public domain posts which should have marked him as a nutter unfit to own guns.
Just because he makes social media posts doesn’t mean the police are going to pick them up or that there’s a reasonable expectation they will. What sort of capacity do you think the police have to monitor social media like that?I don’t blame the guns and at this stage I don’t blame the police / security services, but let’s not pretend the deaths couldn’t have realistically been reduced through prohibitive gun laws that prohibit guns which go beyond the scope of any ‘necessary’ justification such as hunting etc.
andy_s said:
Fulani also have ongoing spats in pretty much all the places they live, due to ongoing land-disputes, ideological disputes, family disputes and rights over grazing land etc etc with other similar tribes or groups - it has very little to do with 'Islam' as a root cause - if you look at Mali / Burkina / Niger you'll see that there is conflict between Fula and AQIM/JNIM [Al Qaeda in the Islamic Magreb & Jama'at Nasr al-Islam wal Muslimin] as the terrorist groups want to operate in a vacuum; but there are also militant Islamist Fula in small proportion aligned to AQ et al. Also consider the Fula as the largest nomadic tribe on earth who range from free-roaming nomadic stone-age peoples to occupying several Presidencies (incl. Nigeria) and prominent positions of office internationally.
This isn't a new thing in Africa...
I think it’s a reasonable bet that Cerdo had zero knowledge of the Nigerian situation and the Fulani before clicking a link in this thread. This isn't a new thing in Africa...
Eric Mc said:
Brooking10 said:
Eric,
I just looked that thread up, as trite as it may sound I hope that gave you some tiny sense of comfort.
It certainly did.I just looked that thread up, as trite as it may sound I hope that gave you some tiny sense of comfort.
j_4m said:
I believe there’s no magazine size limit on shotguns on an FAC, so you could own something like this legally in the UK on an FAC. There is legally nothing stopping a similar shooting happening in this country, save local firearms officers being sensible about what they allow people to put on their certificates.
Gun control does not stop mass shootings like this one. A really determined nutcase will find a way.
Gun control in the U.K. prohibits dangerous criminals from acquiring / using firearms all the time. The quality of firearms used by criminals are extremely poor because there’s a lack of availability / the risk of possession is high. Gun control does not stop mass shootings like this one. A really determined nutcase will find a way.
I’m sure Derek Bird would have preferred to have had access to the weapons this chap did, for example.
La Liga said:
un control in the U.K. prohibits dangerous criminals from acquiring / using firearms all the time. The quality of firearms used by criminals are extremely poor because there’s a lack of availability / the risk of possession is high.
I’m sure Derek Bird would have preferred to have had access to the weapons this chap did, for example.
I don’t disagree in the context of regular violent crime and murder, but mass shootings of this type are a different animal. Incidentally Bird did own a semi-automatic shotgun, but it was locked in someone else’s safe so he couldn't use it. He could have applied for, and probably been granted, a semi-automatic rifle in .22 rimfire. We have had exactly three mass shootings in our entire history, previous gun control measure did nothing to stop each one happening.I’m sure Derek Bird would have preferred to have had access to the weapons this chap did, for example.
Cerdo Espada said:
El stovey said:
e46m3Mark said:
Is it a good view from up there?
Yeah anyone who says it’s sick to watch videos of people being murdered is being a bit judgmental. Perfectly normal to seek out videos of people being slaughtered and post about how graphic it was with graphic descriptions just so everyone knows.
This is the reason why many gobby middle-class students seek out horror and death through music and film in order to feel 'something' whilst kids from working class backgrounds just get on with it and become our soldiers, police and paramedics.
One group actually grows up while the other become big babies crying on the internet when this weeks 'minority' is affected.
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