How do we think EU negotiations will go? (Vol 9)

[Otis Criblecoblis]

egor110 said:

Is calling the whole thing off a option though ?

Are the e.u really going to let us back in as if the last 2 years never happened ?

Why would they when they hold all the cards , hell why not demand they uk takes on the euro if they want to remain in the eu .

Of course they'll take us back ! They love us really. We'll keep the rebate and everything, and they won't mind us being in the reluctant members division 2 league of EU membership.

[SeeFive]

Otis Criblecoblis said:

egor110 said:

Is calling the whole thing off a option though ?

Are the e.u really going to let us back in as if the last 2 years never happened ?

Why would they when they hold all the cards , hell why not demand they uk takes on the euro if they want to remain in the eu .

Of course they'll take us back ! They love us really. We'll keep the rebate and everything, and they won't mind us being in the reluctant members division 2 league of EU membership.

As long as we still pay their club bills... they will even change their anthem for us:

You dress me up, I'm your puppet
You buy me things, I love it
You bring me food, I need it
You give me love, I feed it

And look at the two of us in sympathy
With everything we see
I never want anything, it's easy
You buy whatever I need

But look at my hopes, look at my dreams
The currency we've spent
I love you, you pay my rent
I love you, you pay my rent

Edited by SeeFive on Monday 25th March 01:14

[steve_k]

Nickgnome said:

steve_k said:

Think about it for a second, a fishing boat will have a fully laden weight, what fills a fishing boat quicker taking all the fish caught home when emptying the nets or throwing half back?

Throwing fish back means catching and killing more fish to fill the boat.

Sadly your logic is completely flawed.

Hopefully if you discuss with some fisheries experts you will understand why.

Flawed in what way do explain?

[Robertj21a]

jonnyb said:

Good post.

I would agree with that.

Will brexit make Westminster sit up and take note of the regions? I’m not sure it will.

Very good to see some facts on here for once. Unfortunately, I also doubt that anyone will bother to do anything about it.

[Troubleatmill]

Crackie said:

If it was your intention to merely point out the change since 2016 then your lack of emotional intelligence and compassion beggars belief.

This change in the electorate since the ref you keep highlighting, why do you think it the polls now show a smaller gap now between leave and remain than there was in 2016?

The first few times our Helicopter friend posted up about elderly leavers dying and youthful Remainers now eligible to vote- it was not done with kindness.

[FiF]

I know many of you don't do Twitter but for once take 5 minutes to read this thread.

Check out @DanielCreminUK’s Tweet: https://twitter.com/DanielCreminUK/status/11094489...

[wisbech]

Robertj21a said:

jonnyb said:

Good post.

I would agree with that.

Will brexit make Westminster sit up and take note of the regions? I’m not sure it will.

Very good to see some facts on here for once. Unfortunately, I also doubt that anyone will bother to do anything about it.

Historically the Tories have a free market approach- so Brexit or no you would expect them to ignore the regions/ assume the market will solve it ‘get on your bike’ was Tebbit’s famous phrase

Labour have traditionally been more interventionist, and Brexit does mean less restrictions on state aid - so you could see more direct support to regional business post Brexit when they are next in power.

[amusingduck]

Blimey, 1500 posts since I lasted visited on Friday!

Does anyone have a summary of the weekends events?

[powerstroke]

amusingduck said:

Blimey, 1500 posts since I lasted visited on Friday!

Does anyone have a summary of the weekends events?

Yes .... same st different day ..

[Robertj21a]

amusingduck said:

Blimey, 1500 posts since I lasted visited on Friday!

Does anyone have a summary of the weekends events?

Yes, little posted was very helpful...

[Earthdweller]

FiF said:

I know many of you don't do Twitter but for once take 5 minutes to read this thread.

Check out @DanielCreminUK’s Tweet: https://twitter.com/DanielCreminUK/status/11094489...

Very interesting read, thanks for sharing

Surprised that he got a lot of support for his reasoning and position and a number of people saying they were in the same position

[wisbech]

FiF said:

I know many of you don't do Twitter but for once take 5 minutes to read this thread.

Check out @DanielCreminUK’s Tweet: https://twitter.com/DanielCreminUK/status/11094489...

He makes a good argument for why he changed his mind.

But note he wants a ‘liberal’ Brexit (he is OK with FOM and wants a lower tax regime) - not sure if this is what Brexit voters from Wisbech would be in favour of - they probably want much less FOM and some level of tax redistribution/ rebalancing of the economy

It has made Brexit more complex - because the technical ‘decoupling’ is very hard to split from political policy decisions. As the Tories are in power, you would have expected a liberal Brexit, but May & her advisors got hung up on FOM/ immigration- presumably because they thought that they needed to deliver a Brexit amenable to larger group of Brexit voters rather than Tory Brexit voters

[bitchstewie]

psi310398 said:

wc98 said:

bhstewie said:

Allanv said:

The express seems to be fixated on aliens and the end of the world or their top bloke in the weather predicting doomsday, so leave or remain just do not read the express and go to the pub instead or the garden centre or possibly a rave but not the express unless you are a flat earther.

Brutal

but true

I think it is a ghastly rag, but please remind me of its circulation figures compared to those of the Guardian or Independent?

It is precisely this contemptuous attitude that helped Remain lose the referendum. It is doubtless a sad fact for many Remain supporters that Express readers have votes, but that's a universal franchise for you. My guess is that proportionately more of them exercise their right to vote, too.

"Contemptuous attitude"

What is sad is that anyone would base their vote off anything they read in that rag.

Plenty of crap opinion pieces in the Guardian and Indy too but the quality of journalism v opinion is head and shoulders above the Express.

It's fear monger central and preys on peoples insecurities.

[Earthdweller]

wisbech said:

FiF said:

I know many of you don't do Twitter but for once take 5 minutes to read this thread.

Check out @DanielCreminUK’s Tweet: https://twitter.com/DanielCreminUK/status/11094489...

He makes a good argument for why he changed his mind.

But note he wants a ‘liberal’ Brexit (he is OK with FOM and wants a lower tax regime) - not sure if this is what Brexit voters from Wisbech would be in favour of - they probably want much less FOM and some level of tax redistribution/ rebalancing of the economy

It has made Brexit more complex - because the technical ‘decoupling’ is very hard to split from political policy decisions. As the Tories are in power, you would have expected a liberal Brexit, but May & her advisors got hung up on FOM/ immigration- presumably because they thought that they needed to deliver a Brexit amenable to larger group of Brexit voters rather than Tory Brexit voters

I think he mentioned skilled migration, which is far from chucking the door open and letting the world walk in

Overall a sensible reasonable piece

[Vanden Saab]

wisbech said:

FiF said:

I know many of you don't do Twitter but for once take 5 minutes to read this thread.

Check out @DanielCreminUK’s Tweet: https://twitter.com/DanielCreminUK/status/11094489...

He makes a good argument for why he changed his mind.

But note he wants a ‘liberal’ Brexit (he is OK with FOM and wants a lower tax regime) - not sure if this is what Brexit voters from Wisbech would be in favour of - they probably want much less FOM and some level of tax redistribution/ rebalancing of the economy

It has made Brexit more complex - because the technical ‘decoupling’ is very hard to split from political policy decisions. As the Tories are in power, you would have expected a liberal Brexit, but May & her advisors got hung up on FOM/ immigration- presumably because they thought that they needed to deliver a Brexit amenable to larger group of Brexit voters rather than Tory Brexit voters

his first line says he now accepts WTO rules is the way forward. I don't think it is news to say most leavers would have preferred a Brexit that would have worked for both us and the EU. For me the whole problem has been that we started negotiations trying to compromise rather than at WTO. Despite what you read on here at times more and more Leavers and more than a few Remainers are coming to the view that WTO rules is now the only option especially as the extremist remainers have become so vocally nasty and uncompromising..
You can see that in the reactions from both sides to his posts if you read down the thread.

[Elysium]

Vanden Saab said:

wisbech said:

FiF said:

I know many of you don't do Twitter but for once take 5 minutes to read this thread.

Check out @DanielCreminUK’s Tweet: https://twitter.com/DanielCreminUK/status/11094489...

He makes a good argument for why he changed his mind.

But note he wants a ‘liberal’ Brexit (he is OK with FOM and wants a lower tax regime) - not sure if this is what Brexit voters from Wisbech would be in favour of - they probably want much less FOM and some level of tax redistribution/ rebalancing of the economy

It has made Brexit more complex - because the technical ‘decoupling’ is very hard to split from political policy decisions. As the Tories are in power, you would have expected a liberal Brexit, but May & her advisors got hung up on FOM/ immigration- presumably because they thought that they needed to deliver a Brexit amenable to larger group of Brexit voters rather than Tory Brexit voters

his first line says he now accepts WTO rules is the way forward. I don't think it is news to say most leavers would have preferred a Brexit that would have worked for both us and the EU. For me the whole problem has been that we started negotiations trying to compromise rather than at WTO. Despite what you read on here at times more and more Leavers and more than a few Remainers are coming to the view that WTO rules is now the only option especially as the extremist remainers have become so vocally nasty and uncompromising..
You can see that in the reactions from both sides to his posts if you read down the thread.

Give me an example of one of these 'extremist remainers'.

Are they in politics or wider society? What are they doing that is vocally nasty and uncompromising? How does that make WTO rules more acceptable?

I would also like to understand why you think WTO rules are relevant at this point where we are failing to agree a transition arrangement and terms of withdrawal, let alone our future trading relationship.

[anonymous-user]

WTO Rules . . . .

Has anyone on here traded with the rest of the world? We trade with the EU and it is simple, straightforward and frictionless and if there are any problems with contracts etc. then we know there is the legal back up, commonality and infrastructure to generally get these things resolved in a low cost and transparent way. We have also exported to the US and this is a bit more problematic in terms of the hoops you have to jump through. Fine if you are a large multinational with huge teams of people organising the paperwork. Not so easy as a smaller but growing business.

What would really scare me though is doing business with anywhere outside the more Westernised of the WTO countries.

The growth, so they say is in Asia and I know personally of several other business owners who have been completely screwed over here. One has lost a business because of a cheaper Chinese copy of his most popular product, a blatant copyright infringement, imported into the UK meant that he couldn't compete with the Chinese version of his own product on cost! Tried to fight things through official channels but by the time the legal/bureaucratic process started to swing into action it was too late for him and he had to fold the business.

Another friend of mine runs a branding and advertising agency. He was approached by a large Indian company to help them with their updated brand identity. The Indian company paid the deposit invoice but despite them being openly happy with the result, the company failed to pay the remaining 50% due and still haven't 2 years later despite continuing to blatantly use my friends work. It caused a huge cashflow headache for my friends business and he had to lay off a couple of people because of it. They tried to pursue things but unfortunately there was very little chance of getting anywhere through the Indian courts. The Indian legal system is a total minefield/shambles and it quickly became apparent he was throwing good money after bad.

I am not fully conversant with WTO rules as we have, apart from our US transactions, never had to use them. From what I have heard though then the protection they would offer UK businesses is very limited. They seem to be often flouted or ignored.

Unless you are a huge multinational with the resources to police things, good luck trading on WTO terms is all I can say from my experience. Fine when it works, terrible if it doesn't.

[Helicopter123]

amusingduck said:

Blimey, 1500 posts since I lasted visited on Friday!

Does anyone have a summary of the weekends events?

Something about fish.

Leavers increasingly angry.

A 1m pro 2nd ref march in London and 5m sign revoke A50 petition.

[Vanden Saab]

Elysium said:

Give me an example of one of these 'extremist remainers'.

Are they in politics or wider society? What are they doing that is vocally nasty and uncompromising? How does that make WTO rules more acceptable?

I would also like to understand why you think WTO rules are relevant at this point where we are failing to agree a transition arrangement and terms of withdrawal, let alone our future trading relationship.

Well done, you have proved my point for me. If we leave without an agreement we immediately start to trade under WTO rules. That is not the end point but the start. It is not our problem that the EU will not even start to discuss future arrangements until we have left. If the WA and Transition agreement was anything but an attempt to keep us in I would be supporting it.
Extremist remainers ….. do you really need reminding?

Edited by Vanden Saab on Monday 25th March 08:11

[anonymous-user]

Vanden Saab said:

Well done, you have proved my point for me. If we leave without an agreement we immediately start to trade under WTO rules. That is not the end point but the start. It is not our problem that the EU will not even start to discuss future arrangements until we have left. If the WA and Transition agreement was anything but an attempt to keep us in I would be supporting it.
Extremist remainers ….. do you really need reminding?

Do you have any experience of trying to trade under WTO rules?