How do we think EU negotiations will go? (Vol 9)
Discussion
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hstewie said:
hstewie said: I think the Tory party are terrified of losing power or possibly worse to them there's some weird "thing" about being seen to have "caved in" to Corbyn.
I don't think the power thing is because it's Corbyn leading Labour (which is fking scary) rather it wouldn't matter who it was, it would be the same because they want to be in power.
You stick two people in a room to try and act in the interests of a country and all they seem to do is act in the interests of their party.
Doesn't help when half of each party seem to be nutters.
Simple as that IMO.
it really is highlighting the self serving nature of uk politics. considering what she is trying to push through what actual problem does she/the party have with the corbyn/labour customs union idea ? it read as no difference to the situation we would have if the backstop is enacted, to me at least.I don't think the power thing is because it's Corbyn leading Labour (which is f
king scary) rather it wouldn't matter who it was, it would be the same because they want to be in power.You stick two people in a room to try and act in the interests of a country and all they seem to do is act in the interests of their party.
Doesn't help when half of each party seem to be nutters.
Simple as that IMO.
Gareth1974 said:
soupdragon1 said:
It's the single market that the main issue, as that involves physical checks, which requires physical infrastructure.
Indeed, potentially less contentious than other options though, the continuing freedom of movement of people over the border might be an acceptable compromise for people both sides of the border. Of course, it’s then a version of leaving that’s softer than most leavers wished for.
My own view, is that CU idea won't gain any traction, and we are chasing blind alleys. I really can't see it giving the breakthrough and it's blatantly ignoring the referendum, while annoying remainers too.
We just need to man up, and get to the crux of the question. Do we want Brexit and put NI in the SM/CU or do we want to remain. Anything else is just fudge.
wc98 said:
it really is highlighting the self serving nature of uk politics. considering what she is trying to push through what actual problem does she/the party have with the corbyn/labour customs union idea ? it read as no difference to the situation we would have if the backstop is enacted, to me at least.
"Red lines""Get us out"
"Just leave"
"We didn't vote for a Customs Union
You're pretty pragmatic compared to most on here but that's how it's viewed by many.
Nickgnome said:
Robertj21a said:
RAFsmoggy said:
bigdog3 said:
Digga said:
Or if Dianne Abbot copies your maths homework.
Diane Julie Abbott - the one who can stop Labour's ambitions in their tracks. Labour's equivalent to Theresa May 
Could you post the link please that evidences percentage of each.
Nickgnome said:
ELUSIVEJIM said:
So remainers have the majority of the House of Commons, EU, British press and polls all behind them making sure Brexit is stopped.
What actually can any leavers do going forward?
Basically, nothing as the establishment will stop it.
If as you illude there are so many disenfranchised leave voters, they would be desperate for a party that reflected their wishes and if these Leave voters have no xenophobic or racist tendencies as oft stated here I’m sure they would flock by their droves into the fold of a suitable organisation.What actually can any leavers do going forward?
Basically, nothing as the establishment will stop it.
The ‘Establishment ‘ has no means to stop it.
It comes back to someone actually getting off their butt though and that is where it is likely fall down.
A lot of lazy, indifferent or perhaps over confident self entitled folk didn't manage that one simple act.
ClaphamGT3 said:
I had coffee with a cabinet minister yesterday who said exactly this
I'm sure many of them think thus. Although Cabinet Ministers have hardly set a good example when it comes to discipline or loyalty. And we also have Osborne thinking publicly that it is preferable to deselect a CCA rather than let it discipline an errant MP. But, if it came to a vote of confidence, would these ministers really trust Labour MPs to keep them in power? Of course not. So they are stuck with the remnants of whatever tribal loyalty there is.
The trouble is that they don't own the Party. And relations between the Centre and the Local Associations have never been worse - they are, if not yet mutinous, not far off it. If CCO and the Leadership pick a fight with the locals, the victory would be phyrric.
AIUI, local associations are independent legal entities and they own the local assets (like the constituency office, computers etc), not Central Office. So, if Local Associations cease to be affiliated, CCO will have no local parties to conduct an election with and no local assets to deploy. Add to that, Local Associations are collectively the Central Party's biggest creditor and their loans tend to be on terms that include the power to call them in at will. So they can collectively bring the Centre to its knees, at least until a rich donor/lender can be found.
I understand from someone close to CCO that CCO is also concerned that there would also be an interesting debate with the Electoral Commission about who could use the Conservative name if the local party ran an unapproved candidate against a CCO flagged one. Apparently their legal advice is quite ambiguous and it is interesting that CCO has felt the need to seek advice.
So, at the moment, so long as an MP keeps his Local Association onside, he's all rosy. CCO can, in principle, remove MPs from the approved list but they'd need to be damned sure that the Local Associations backed them up. Picking 20, 40 or 60 such fights simultaneously at the moment would be unwise, to put it mildly.
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