How do we think EU negotiations will go? (Vol 10)

[Squiddly Diddly]

gooner1 said:

Good, now we have established EU elections are a waste of time and money, yet by their
own stupid rules even those that are supposedely leaving, HAVE to take part.

Or do the EU believe that under the current terms, the UK is not truly leaving?

From the EU's perspective the UK has the unilateral right to revoke A50 so it is not unreasonable they insist we take part.

Edited by Squiddly Diddly on Sunday 19th May 10:24

[Pan Pan Pan]

JuanCarlosFandango said:

Pan Pan Pan said:

Perhaps more significant is the fact that no ordinary citizen in the UK voted, or was even given the chance to vote on whether or not they wanted the UK to be a member of the EU in the first place.
How in 1975 could the people of the UK be asked to vote for something that would not exist for another 18 years, let alone understand what being in an EU would mean for them and the UK?
Yet in 2016 we had some bleating that there was not enough information available to make a decision.
Well by 2016, the people of the UK had had over 40 years of `actual' experience of being in the EU, not to mention information from the internet, numerous TV channels, far more newspapers, televised HoC and HoL and other tv debates etc which did not exist in 1975, and the majority voted to leave to look at and consider.
Since no ordinary citizens in the UK were allowed to vote, on whether or not they wanted the UK to be in the EU, let alone be allowed to make legal challenges to the result of the 2016 democratic vote on the matter, is UK membership of the EU even legal?

Didn't you hear? The electorate were much 'better informed' in 1975. We only had 3 TV channels and 2 were the BBC. All those people who had gone to their library and seen a copy of the Treaty of Rome thought it was marvellous, and there was no internet full of information enabling any fool to go and read the treaties for himself, or comment on them or discuss them. The proof is in the pudding - we must have been better informed because we voted the right way that time.

40 years later all these old codgers who voted Remain in 1975 suddenly decided they preferred the British Empire and didn't like foreigners after all, having been fooled by Putin and his cronies on Twitter.

True story.

You are right, I am sure I saw heaven knows how many hairy a*sed builders with a copy of the Treaty of Rome hanging out of their back pockets, instead of the Sun, and overheard countless debates in the pubs, about its finer details Not sure we still had a British `Empire' in 1975 though, but we did at least have 3 television channels as you point out

Edited by Pan Pan Pan on Sunday 19th May 10:32

[Elysium]

Squiddly Diddly said:

gooner1 said:

Good, now we have established EU elections are a waste of time and money, yet by their
own stupid rules even those that are supposedely leaving, HAVE to take part.

Or do the EU believe that under the current terms, the UK is not truly leaving?

From the EU's perspective the UK has the unilateral right to evoke A50 so it is not unreasonable they insist we take part.

Its not difficult. We are all EU citizens until the UK leaves. The current deadline for that, which is not guaranteed, is Oct 19. The new MEP's must take their seats before then.

So if we do not hold elections, it is likely that EU citizens in the UK would find themselves without democratically elected representatives, which would be unlawful.

It's not the EU's 'stupid rules', they are not being 'difficult' - it is the law.

[Elysium]

Vanden Saab said:

Nige must be quaking in his boots....

So corruption is OK if the penalities are low?

[Squiddly Diddly]

Elysium said:

Its not difficult. We are all EU citizens until the UK leaves. The current deadline for that, which is not guaranteed, is Oct 19. The new MEP's must take their seats before then.

So if we do not hold elections, it is likely that EU citizens in the UK would find themselves without democratically elected representatives, which would be unlawful.

It's not the EU's 'stupid rules', they are not being 'difficult' - it is the law.

Representation by lots of Farage mini me's.

[mikal83]

And if you are now listening to Cable on the A Marr show, He is what a lot of people hate about politicians

[Pan Pan Pan]

As we are currently still in the EU, we must therefore abide by the rules, and hold elections for the UK`s MEP`s
The real irony will be if the UK remains in the EU but now with a bunch of leave supporting UK MEP`s dealing with its everyday business from now on, As posted many times before, interesting times lay ahead

[Garvin]

Elysium said:

So corruption is OK if the penalities are low?

I have not seen anyone here who claims this so why have you stated this? The EU rules are clear and, unfortunately, are not severe enough on this sort of thing, but that is the EU ‘gravy train’ way.

In the UK it is pretty difficult to get rid of misbehaving MPs - just look how long it took to get rid of the Peterborough MP who was convicted of a criminal offence. However, at least it was possible via the recall petition.

[stevensdrs]

Watching Corbyn on the Andrew Marr show just now. He is evasive in the extreme but it would seem the Labour position is that of the remainer. He just won't admit it.

[Garvin]

mikal83 said:

And if you are now listening to Cable on the A Marr show, He is what a lot of people hate about politicians

Is it just me or has Marr been stung by criticism of his car crash last week to do his job properly this week? Seems to be holding politicians to account over their current views, opinions and intentions.

[alfie2244]

gooner1 said:

H,mmmm. IIRC Stufftops also proclaimed to have met at least one Leaver that had changed
their minds, on his daily worldwide escapades.

My money would be a.n. other returnee

[Vanden Saab]

Garvin said:

mikal83 said:

And if you are now listening to Cable on the A Marr show, He is what a lot of people hate about politicians

Is it just me or has Marr been stung by criticism of his car crash last week to do his job properly this week? Seems to be holding politicians to account over their current views, opinions and intentions.

Imagine how much more we would have learned about Farage and his party if Marr had only interviewed him the same way he is dealing with Corbyn this week...

[stevensdrs]

Nicola Sturgeon still in denial that a big section of SNP voters do not support remaining in the EU.

[Murph7355]

Squiddly Diddly said:

I could understand the purpose of voting for Farage if we weren't in the process of leaving, but we are.

The EU election is a waste of time and money, and not a stepping stone to anything.

The fact that we're having to take part in the EU elections underscores that "the process of leaving" is not running well enough and that there is still a possibility that we will not actually leave.

This is why Farage is back. You don't like him, talk to the rest of the HoC about it.

As others have noted, we now must take part in the EU elections. This is down to the incompetence of our own HoC.

If we end up remaining, then these elections will very much have served a purpose. And what is looking like the make up of our representation there (though nothing can be taken as read where polls are concerned) will also serve a purpose.

[mikal83]

stevensdrs said:

Nicola Sturgeon still in denial that a big section of SNP voters do not support remaining in the EU.

BUT she is correct in saying that the vast majority dont. Where Marr slipped was after she went on and on about majorities etc, he could have said...OK then the scottish people voted to stay within the UK, so you will cease your continual dribble of scotland leaving the UK...

[ClaphamGT3]

Troubleatmill said:

DeepEnd said:

... Is this point really lost?

We really don't care.
You can post up night and day how much you loathe the man.
It simply does not matter.

If he can help get us out of the EU - that is good enough for me.


As Farage put it - It is about democracy.

Just like Mussolini making the trains run on time - are you really that myopic?

[amusingduck]

Elysium said:

Its not difficult. We are all EU citizens until the UK leaves. The current deadline for that, which is not guaranteed, is Oct 19. The new MEP's must take their seats before then.

So if we do not hold elections, it is likely that EU citizens in the UK would find themselves without democratically elected representatives, which would be unlawful.

It's not the EU's 'stupid rules', they are not being 'difficult' - it is the law.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/02/12/watchdog-finds-european-commission-broke-letter-spirit-eu-law/

Politico said:

The investigation into the German's promotion from Jean-Claude Juncker's chief of staff to Commission secretary-general "did not follow EU law, in letter or spirit, and did not follow the Commission's own rules," the office of the ombudsman, Emily O'Reilly, said in a statement.

EU law is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules.

[christian-ohtc3]

Looks like the EU are going to investigate Farage over the Banks gifts.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nig...

[gooner1]

ClaphamGT3 said:

Just like Mussolini making the trains run on time - are you really that myopic?

That's rich coming from someone who thinks the 37% of the electorate that voted Leave
was smaller than the % of voters who plumped for Remain.

A case of the myopic leading the blind methinks.

[bitchstewie]

christian-ohtc3 said:

Looks like the EU are going to investigate Farage over the Banks gifts.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nig...

It seems they're pretty limited in what they can do.

If they fine him it's small change compared to his outside interests.

If they don't let him sit he'll just play the victim card and his supporters won't care as they're quite happy for him to pocket all the money and do nothing in return anyway.

Come what may Nigel will do quite nicely out of it all.