How do we think EU negotiations will go? (Vol 10)
Discussion
jsf said:
FiF said:
B-1 allows "Persons to work on specific projects in the U.S. and paid by a foreign employer."
I had a b1-b2 visa on a previous passport, not needed it so far on my new one.SeeFive said:
jsf said:
FiF said:
B-1 allows "Persons to work on specific projects in the U.S. and paid by a foreign employer."
I had a b1-b2 visa on a previous passport, not needed it so far on my new one.jtremlett said:
paulrockliffe said:
...Is she going to bring this back? If she doesn't, she must resign now surely? This time? I mean she everyone must run out of brass neck eventually? Right?
I wouldn't like to place a bet on it. She is quite extraordinarily deluded. I cannot begin to comprehend what has been going through her mind to get to get to this point. I do think she became fixated a long time ago that getting her wretched WA through parliament would somehow mean her premiership was a success but even if that is so it is even harder to comprehend why the Cabinet continue to support it and the rest of the Conservative party continue to sit by and let it go on.Once she goes there'll be all out war to make sure each side gets their person in charge. Remainers will push to keep Boris or a leaver off the membership ballot, leavers will resist. One side has to lose and that will split the party. The party certainly can't survive serving up two remain candidates for it's members to vote on.
I think it's a cop-out to just say she's a nutter, given she probably isn't, so that's my view of her motivation.
Up to 57 now.
chrispmartha said:
If I was a Leaver I’d be championing a 2nd referendum, I reckon Leave would win hands down.
The reason those who are actually leavers don't want one is that it's a waste of time.Leave win - still loads of moaning. Nothing has changed. And one vote would already have been ignored so how will this one not be with the same cretins in position?
Remain win - best of 3/5/7? Or get to another GE and then see it all start again.
There is no elegant solution. May/Robbins approach has painted us into a corner. The HoC now needs to grow a pair and either rescind or just leave. The two main parties missed their opportunity montgs/years ago not to be damaged by this. They are both in serious trouble. Good.
paulrockliffe said:
I said this one one of the threads earlier this week, she believes she's doing the best for her party. As odd as it sounds, whe's the only thing keeping things together; remainers like her for delivering remain, leavers can't get her out.
Once she goes there'll be all out war to make sure each side gets their person in charge. Remainers will push to keep Boris or a leaver off the membership ballot, leavers will resist. One side has to lose and that will split the party. The party certainly can't survive serving up two remain candidates for it's members to vote on.
I think it's a cop-out to just say she's a nutter, given she probably isn't, so that's my view of her motivation.
Up to 57 now.
Maybe so although continually putting off the day is surely only making things worse and she has effectively closed off a compromise deal by signing the WA which the EU refuse to reopen leaving only a binary choice. Sooner or later that choice will have to be made (unless a new leader can somehow persuade the EU to negotiate again).Once she goes there'll be all out war to make sure each side gets their person in charge. Remainers will push to keep Boris or a leaver off the membership ballot, leavers will resist. One side has to lose and that will split the party. The party certainly can't survive serving up two remain candidates for it's members to vote on.
I think it's a cop-out to just say she's a nutter, given she probably isn't, so that's my view of her motivation.
Up to 57 now.
FiF said:
MrrT is being very specific in where he is picking you up.
https://uk.usembassy.gov/visas/visa-waiver-program...
"Travelers seeking to enter the United States for business or tourism (B-1/B-2 visa), or in transit (C-1) for less than 90 days may be eligible to travel to the United States visa free under the Visa Waiver Program (VWP) if they meet specific requirements.
The VWP cannot be used if your purpose of travel is to study for credit, employment, work as foreign press, radio, film, journalists, or other information media, or take up permanent residence."
I think the Top Gear thing was a disagreement as to the nature of the work they were undertaking on the visas they did have, ie factual programme Vs entertainment or something like that. At a guess the stumbling block was that iirc TG was classed as entertainment and therefore plenty of US residents available for employment to do the work.
The original point which has got folks frothing and throwing up their hands in a it's all so difficult tactic, is that it's actually not difficult, you just have to understand the rules and not b-s your way through. Eg going in on a tourist visa or VWP and then doing work for your UK employer after having told US immigration agent you were there for tourism would get you in trouble if found out. So you simply tell the truth having done due diligence on what is / is not allowed.
never fails to amaze me the vagaries of international work and travel seem fairly easy to negotiate for the average leave voter, yet the superior intelligence of the average remain voter seems to struggle https://uk.usembassy.gov/visas/visa-waiver-program...
"Travelers seeking to enter the United States for business or tourism (B-1/B-2 visa), or in transit (C-1) for less than 90 days may be eligible to travel to the United States visa free under the Visa Waiver Program (VWP) if they meet specific requirements.
The VWP cannot be used if your purpose of travel is to study for credit, employment, work as foreign press, radio, film, journalists, or other information media, or take up permanent residence."
I think the Top Gear thing was a disagreement as to the nature of the work they were undertaking on the visas they did have, ie factual programme Vs entertainment or something like that. At a guess the stumbling block was that iirc TG was classed as entertainment and therefore plenty of US residents available for employment to do the work.
The original point which has got folks frothing and throwing up their hands in a it's all so difficult tactic, is that it's actually not difficult, you just have to understand the rules and not b-s your way through. Eg going in on a tourist visa or VWP and then doing work for your UK employer after having told US immigration agent you were there for tourism would get you in trouble if found out. So you simply tell the truth having done due diligence on what is / is not allowed.
Vanden Saab said:
jonnyb said:
Tuna said:
Squiddly Diddly said:
I thought the 'managed' part referred to stuff like aircraft until the UK is in a position to assume responsibility. WTO is just trade.
Yes, and the government has been making so called 'mini-agreements' covering stuff like aircraft, medicines, visas and driving permits for the last nine months or so. That is the 'managed' part and doesn't need anything written into a withdrawal agreement. You don't do a deal to have no deal.That's not to say it's plain sailing, and I believe there is backlog of the legislation parliament would need to pass to be legally ready for no deal. We'd need to 'roll over' various agreements into UK law as they're currently made through the EU. Equally, the problems for things like medicine companies based in the UK supplying into the EU are quite real - they'd have to re-apply for permits for their products. Interestingly though, this was one of the areas the German Economic Institute picked out as a huge opportunity for growth in the event of No Deal as the current tariff regimes are apparently quite restrictive for pharmaceutical companies. Not my area though, so I've not got much information on that.
But the idea that no preparations have been done, or that we need to negotiate with the EU in order to be able to leave with No Deal is obviously untrue.
It’s called taking back control apparently.
EU said:
The proposed measures are specific, limited and targeted at remedying the negative impact of a disorderly withdrawal or at enabling the necessary adaptation of the legislation.
If you do not understand the difference between proposing something and telling someone something, I can only assume you have never been married.It’s not a negotiation
digimeistter said:
May's 10 point plan, dress it up like something it isn't and sell it to Parliament with veiled threats of retraction of A50.
Point 7 was a doozie
We're not buying it , just leave now woman.
Agreed. It's getting painful to watch, she's virtually begging, it's demeaning to the office of PM, it's demeaning to the government and it's demeaning to her personally, Unless she has the hide of a rhino and the brain of a dandelion she should stand down immediately, as in tonight, it's become embarassing.Point 7 was a doozie
We're not buying it , just leave now woman.
jonnyb said:
It’s not a deal, we have no input in it. The EU is proposing to inflict these measures on the aviation sector if the UK leaves without a deal.
It’s not a negotiation
Do you really think that the EU, on the brink of recession, is stupid enough to try and stop flights to and from the UK? Why would they do that? What would their motivation be? It’s not a negotiation
Tuna said:
Elysium said:
Your argument is that managed no-deal is sorted. If that is true and we have agreed terms of withdrawal then that is fine. However, that is not what the Govt or the EU are saying and I will take their view over yours.
This one sentence really suggests that you don't actually understand what a 'Managed No Deal' actually is.Once again - you do not 'agree terms of withdrawal' for No Deal, managed or otherwise. It's an oxymoron. Switching to WTO rules requires no consent from or agreement with the EU. We just have to say "Right, that's it, we're off". Or wait until October. Or vote for someone who is willing to take action.
And also again - it's on record that the Government carried out all 'No Deal' preparations in secret and have refused to publish an overview of the agreements and preparations they have put in place. So the fact that you've not seen that is neither surprising, nor an indication that nothing is ready for a WTO exit.
I never suggested that trading on WTO rules would require an agreement. A disorderly no-deal could also be put in place without agreement, but that is not mandated by the 2016 vote and it would be needlessly risky.
A managed no-deal would undoubtedly require agreements to be made around all sorts of interfaces. I am calling this terms of withdrawal, because that is how article 50 defines it, but you called them mini-agreements in your post. Surely you realise that you are contradicting yourself?
You seem to think all sorts of things have been agreed based on your other posts. But any agreements so far are temporary and transitional. That will not wash because we need to be prepared for the risk that we will need to persist on WTO terms for some time. Prior to Brexit people were talking about 7-10 years to agree trade deals. Having a 1 year grace period on recognition of pilots licenses (for example) would not cut it as a managed no-deal, because it just creates a new cliff edge and leaves us without a negotiating position.
This is just short cutting. If we want no-deal and we want to honour the referendum, we need to do the hard work first.
jonnyb said:
It’s not a deal, we have no input in it. The EU is proposing to inflict these measures on the aviation sector if the UK leaves without a deal.
It’s not a negotiation
It's something the EU have tabled because they know they will suffer as we will if things like this are not sorted out.It’s not a negotiation
There are a number of things covered. There is absolutely no reason why the things they have tabled could not be discussed, tweaked and/or added to. At least none that I have seen.
If this was all one way traffic they'd simply say feck you if you want no deal...if May wasn't so incompetent she'd have a large team of people working through these proposals and gearing up to get them signed up to before the end of October. But she's a f
king idiot and has stood those preparations down rather than ramp them up as far as I'm aware. Hopefully her successor will understand the importance of addressing the one option you can control, and hopefully she is replaced very soon before she can make this debacle any more painful.There are some ardent remainers on here who would very much call these items a "deal".
Murph7355 said:
jonnyb said:
It’s not a deal, we have no input in it. The EU is proposing to inflict these measures on the aviation sector if the UK leaves without a deal.
It’s not a negotiation
It's something the EU have tabled because they know they will suffer as we will if things like this are not sorted out.It’s not a negotiation
There are a number of things covered. There is absolutely no reason why the things they have tabled could not be discussed, tweaked and/or added to. At least none that I have seen.
If this was all one way traffic they'd simply say feck you if you want no deal...if May wasn't so incompetent she'd have a large team of people working through these proposals and gearing up to get them signed up to before the end of October. But she's a f
king idiot and has stood those preparations down rather than ramp them up as far as I'm aware. Hopefully her successor will understand the importance of addressing the one option you can control, and hopefully she is replaced very soon before she can make this debacle any more painful.There are some ardent remainers on here who would very much call these items a "deal".
wisbech said:
SeeFive said:
jsf said:
FiF said:
B-1 allows "Persons to work on specific projects in the U.S. and paid by a foreign employer."
I had a b1-b2 visa on a previous passport, not needed it so far on my new one.I could stay in the US upto 6 months on the b1-b2, ESTA limits each trip to 3 months.
Fittster said:
Leicester Loyal said:
paulrockliffe said:
Norfolkit said:
How low can she go, I don't think there's anything she won't do to to get her retarded deal through. She's going to destroy the Tories if thery're not careful, she needs to be shown the door tonight.
It's already finished, they'll not recover from this now.loafer123 said:
jonnyb said:
It’s not a deal, we have no input in it. The EU is proposing to inflict these measures on the aviation sector if the UK leaves without a deal.
It’s not a negotiation
Do you really think that the EU, on the brink of recession, is stupid enough to try and stop flights to and from the UK? Why would they do that? What would their motivation be? It’s not a negotiation
With Drunker leaving in June EU's stance could soften / harden regarding Brexit, especially once Theresa May's gone.
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