Man jailed for sexual activity with fake 19 year old

[Michaelbailey]

Don't understand the relevance of race/religion in this.

This isn't really a rape case. The rape gangs your referring to were brutal and girls died and it was a well orchestrated attack on young girls. This is just a sicko who "cant" tell the difference between a young girl and a young woman who willingly went with him and left on her own accord. Lets not make every argument/conversation race based

[AJL308]

Driver101 said:

Kermit power said:

WCZ said:

Driver101 said:

Personally I don't buy that a 12 year old would pass off as a 19 year old even on looks for anything more than a passing glance. Once you've had a closer look and communication it would be near impossible to pass.

this. if she was maybe 14/15 then it's possible she could be mature beyond her age mentally and physically but 12 is basically an infant

edit: was reading reddit about this and some people were pointing to a famous Brazilian instagram star melodyoficial3 who is 11 who admittedly looks 17+ easily. I suppose makeup etc does make a big difference

Have you read the article?????

Why is it that everyone on here is so completely convinced that they know better than the judge in the case whether or not it was reasonable for the offender to have thought the girl was over 16?

As I read it, that's basically the judge saying that if she'd been 13 instead of 12, then there would have been a perfectly viable defence of having believed the girl to be over the age of 16, but as she's under 13, it's an absolute offence, and such a defence cannot be mounted.

We know that the girl claimed to be 19. Now of course my daughter could've made the same claim when she was two, but not even a High Court Judge would've believed her, because she would've been so completely obviously two. In this case, however, one has to assume the judge has seen photos of the girl and read whatever she wrote on Whatsapp at the very least, even if he hasn't actually met her (which we don't know), so why is everyone doubting him?

The difference between 12 and 19 is huge. I don't believe anyone would genuinely pass.

The judge didn't agree that she looked 19. The only comments are the accused had reason to believe she was over 16.

Reading other pieces on the girl it is clear she has issues. She was regularly running away from home and having issues. It always seems to be vulnerable young girls that end up in situations like this. It isn't by accident in my opinion.

There is also this.

Following the hearing, Detective Constable Tina Jackson, of GMP’s Project Phoenix Bury team, said: “Carl Hodgson would have known the schoolgirl was under 16 and showed complete disregard for the law for his own sexual gratification.

Edited by Driver101 on Tuesday 9th April 11:08

I agree with you. Obviously we are talking from the point of view of not knowing what the girl looks like but I find it virtually inconceivable that any 12 year old could pass for 19...or even 16 for that matter.

[AJL308]

Integroo said:

Kermit power said:

But still plenty of people on here deciding they know better than the people actually involved in the case.

There is, of course, a possibility that the judge himself is a raving paedo who looks at 12yr old girls and decides they're starting to get a bit past it, but in the far more probable event that he's a normal human being who has looked at the evidence presented to him and decided the guy in the dock is more stupid and gullible than anything more sinister, who are we to question it?

Facts: 28 year old looking for young girls online to meet for sex. Whether he thought she was 12 or 16, it is still perverse. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. I have no sympathy, and serious doubts about whether he genuinely believed she was 19.

Agreed. Even if he did think she was 19 then any sensible bloke would make damn sure that she wasn't actually a 15 year old pretending to be 19. This is 2019 ffs and for any young guy to be oblivious to this kind of trap is bordering on the unbelievable. It's not as though the internet isn't replete with basically this same story over and over again.

[AJL308]

V8RX7 said:

No you are saying you can tell, without looking at the girls in question, whether they are 18 or not.

I and many others have seen CERTAIN 11 and 12 year olds who could easily pass for 18

You - WITHOUT SEEING THEM - say you can tell

That is bks

But if there is any doubt you don't shag them until they have proved they are 16 at the very least.

Given the world today and the nature of how easy it is to meet people on the internet, anyone who does not start from the position of; "anyone who looks under 25 is actually under 16 until they prove otherwise" is a setting themselves up for a potential prison term and a ruined life.

[AJL308]

Integroo said:

Kermit power said:

But still plenty of people on here deciding they know better than the people actually involved in the case.

There is, of course, a possibility that the judge himself is a raving paedo who looks at 12yr old girls and decides they're starting to get a bit past it, but in the far more probable event that he's a normal human being who has looked at the evidence presented to him and decided the guy in the dock is more stupid and gullible than anything more sinister, who are we to question it?

Facts: 28 year old looking for young girls online to meet for sex. Whether he thought she was 12 or 16, it is still perverse. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. I have no sympathy, and serious doubts about whether he genuinely believed she was 19.

What about 18 and 27? I met my ex when we were those ages and were together for more than 18 years.

[AJL308]

Baby Shark doo doo doo doo said:

She said she was 19 and wrote as such on the dating site, used a fake name to prevent any checks, and the judge thought she looked older than she was too.

Apart from a written contract complete with original birth certificates and passports/ID, I'm not sure how he could have found out more information? (to be fair the chap in the article probably wishes he had done that). Even fake ID cards are easy to come by and are often very convincing.

Faced with someone who looks 19, claims she is 19, has passed the checks for the dating app to confirm she is over 18, what more can you expect the chap to do?

Legally, yes he has had activity with a 12 year old. However if he wasn't aware and has been mislead, it seems harsh to have a lifelong punishment.

Unless she can prove her age don't shag her. It's really quite simple.

If someone is on a dating site (let's face it, was probably Tinder) with crap age checks, and he would have known if it had crap age checks, then you assume that everyone is under age unless they prove they aren't. Sorry, but that is just the sad place the world is today.

[AJL308]

limpsfield said:

Kermit power said:

He's 28. If she had been 19, would you have considered that creepy?

I would. There is a big difference in maturity. Not so much if it was e.g. 39 to 30.

I was 27 when I met my ex who was 18 at the time. We spent more than 18 years together. No one thought it was particularly creepy.

[anonymous-user]

amusingduck said:

ape x said:

Well it is as shagging and treating a 16 year old like utter st and passing her round makes you a nasty bd... But not a Peado.

As with this case...it makes a lot of difference...

My point is no one ever popped up to suggest these Muslim British Pakistani blokes might have assumed these 14-15 year olds out roaming the streets at night were actually at least 16...people have all ready said on this thread how many 12 year olds look older than 16..so why do white dudes get the excuses??

The title of the BBC article which led to this thread being created is "Man jailed for sexual activity with girl, 12, who he thought was 19"

That's why.

Michaelbailey said:

Don't understand the relevance of race/religion in this.

This isn't really a rape case. The rape gangs your referring to were brutal and girls died and it was a well orchestrated attack on young girls. This is just a sicko who "cant" tell the difference between a young girl and a young woman who willingly went with him and left on her own accord. Lets not make every argument/conversation race based

Don't fall for it
The poster who made the link has form for deliberately skewering threads. He posts to get them closed down

[Randy Winkman]

AJL308 said:

Baby Shark doo doo doo doo said:

She said she was 19 and wrote as such on the dating site, used a fake name to prevent any checks, and the judge thought she looked older than she was too.

Apart from a written contract complete with original birth certificates and passports/ID, I'm not sure how he could have found out more information? (to be fair the chap in the article probably wishes he had done that). Even fake ID cards are easy to come by and are often very convincing.

Faced with someone who looks 19, claims she is 19, has passed the checks for the dating app to confirm she is over 18, what more can you expect the chap to do?

Legally, yes he has had activity with a 12 year old. However if he wasn't aware and has been mislead, it seems harsh to have a lifelong punishment.

Unless she can prove her age don't shag her. It's really quite simple.

If someone is on a dating site (let's face it, was probably Tinder) with crap age checks, and he would have known if it had crap age checks, then you assume that everyone is under age unless they prove they aren't. Sorry, but that is just the sad place the world is today.

I'm not convinced it makes the world a "sad place".

[gregs656]

It is interesting that when it is age there is lot of support here for having a decent threshold of evidence if you're not sure but when we were talking about consent not so long a go it was quite different, with complaints about killing the mood and so on. As I recall there was at least one poster who thought it was ok to keep having sex with someone even after they had withdrawn their consent.

[ape x]

gregs656 said:

It is interesting that when it is age there is lot of support here for having a decent threshold of evidence if you're not sure but when we were talking about consent not so long a go it was quite different, with complaints about killing the mood and so on. As I recall there was at least one poster who thought it was ok to keep having sex with someone even after they had withdrawn their consent.

It is why this place is so addictive...

I still find it funny how if a white dude shags a 12 year old who looks 19, apparently, then that can be defended.
But somehow, that some nasty bd kebab shop owners couldn't be suckered into thinking the girls getting pissed up at their shop after midnight were actually under 16...

Like I say it's a world of difference shagging a 16 year old when you are 30 odd to shagging a 15 year old on how society treats you and the law...
Even in the case of rape. Fact is it's being labelled a Peado or a nonce is far far worse than being labelled a rapist.... And fk me being a rapist is about as low and scummy as it is...
But a Peado? Might as well top yourself...

[anonymous-user]

too much focus on looks, five minutes with the child would be clear how old she is.

[ape x]

Thesprucegoose said:

too much focus on looks, five minutes with the child would be clear how old she is.

Indeed.... this bloke clearly likes shagging kids.

In all my years of sexual activity not one female has ever accused me of rape and never have i shagged a girl who turned out to be under age...
And i have shagged a lot of females.

my rules were, never to sleep with a girl (one night stand) who is drunk, or at least that unattractive drunk where they become mega annoying and talking st.... that stood me in good stead, could of doubled my tally in fairness but rules is rules....
And there are a tonne of signs that a girl is under 15 and certainly under 13 unless you like to shag underage girls.
Clue is the way they act..... yes i have had girls in there 20's that seem to act like 12 year old's for some odd reason, but it was clear they were in 20's because they were at Uni!!!
It is very simple....not sure why some blokes get into so much trouble.....

Get off the internet trawling for girls and go out and meet some and it will become clear how to tell there ages.....
Sad peado finds young girls on internet and gets caught....deal with it peado enjoy your stty rest of your life and if you can't stand it, please kill yourself...

Edited by ape x on Thursday 11th April 19:39

[AJL308]

ape x said:

Well it is as shagging and treating a 16 year old like utter st and passing her round makes you a nasty bd... But not a Peado.

As with this case...it makes a lot of difference...

My point is no one ever popped up to suggest these Muslim British Pakistani blokes might have assumed these 14-15 year olds out roaming the streets at night were actually at least 16...people have all ready said on this thread how many 12 year olds look older than 16..so why do white dudes get the excuses??

To be totally fair though, that was never part of their defence or mitigation. It was in this case.

[AJL308]

Randy Winkman said:

AJL308 said:

Baby Shark doo doo doo doo said:

She said she was 19 and wrote as such on the dating site, used a fake name to prevent any checks, and the judge thought she looked older than she was too.

Apart from a written contract complete with original birth certificates and passports/ID, I'm not sure how he could have found out more information? (to be fair the chap in the article probably wishes he had done that). Even fake ID cards are easy to come by and are often very convincing.

Faced with someone who looks 19, claims she is 19, has passed the checks for the dating app to confirm she is over 18, what more can you expect the chap to do?

Legally, yes he has had activity with a 12 year old. However if he wasn't aware and has been mislead, it seems harsh to have a lifelong punishment.

Unless she can prove her age don't shag her. It's really quite simple.

If someone is on a dating site (let's face it, was probably Tinder) with crap age checks, and he would have known if it had crap age checks, then you assume that everyone is under age unless they prove they aren't. Sorry, but that is just the sad place the world is today.

I'm not convinced it makes the world a "sad place".

It's sad that internet companies who are facilitating wildly underage children and other vulnerable people into getting into massively dangerous situations with potential paedophiles or worse are operating with impunity.

[Randy Winkman]

AJL308 said:

Randy Winkman said:

AJL308 said:

Baby Shark doo doo doo doo said:

She said she was 19 and wrote as such on the dating site, used a fake name to prevent any checks, and the judge thought she looked older than she was too.

Apart from a written contract complete with original birth certificates and passports/ID, I'm not sure how he could have found out more information? (to be fair the chap in the article probably wishes he had done that). Even fake ID cards are easy to come by and are often very convincing.

Faced with someone who looks 19, claims she is 19, has passed the checks for the dating app to confirm she is over 18, what more can you expect the chap to do?

Legally, yes he has had activity with a 12 year old. However if he wasn't aware and has been mislead, it seems harsh to have a lifelong punishment.

Unless she can prove her age don't shag her. It's really quite simple.

If someone is on a dating site (let's face it, was probably Tinder) with crap age checks, and he would have known if it had crap age checks, then you assume that everyone is under age unless they prove they aren't. Sorry, but that is just the sad place the world is today.

I'm not convinced it makes the world a "sad place".

It's sad that internet companies who are facilitating wildly underage children and other vulnerable people into getting into massively dangerous situations with potential paedophiles or worse are operating with impunity.

I agree that isn't right.

[Baby Shark doo doo doo doo]

AJL308 said:

It's sad that internet companies who are facilitating wildly underage children and other vulnerable people into getting into massively dangerous situations with potential paedophiles or worse are operating with impunity.

[voyds9]

AJL308 said:

It's sad that internet companies who are facilitating wildly underage children and other vulnerable people into getting into massively dangerous situations with potential paedophiles or worse are operating with impunity.

I blame parenting by iPad

[AJL308]

voyds9 said:

AJL308 said:

It's sad that internet companies who are facilitating wildly underage children and other vulnerable people into getting into massively dangerous situations with potential paedophiles or worse are operating with impunity.

I blame parenting by iPad

That's too easy to give as a reason. When you can sign up for something like Tinder with basically no checks on who you are or how old you are there is something wrong.

It's really not that difficult to put some basic age checks in place.

[Digger]

AJL308 said:

voyds9 said:

AJL308 said:

It's sad that internet companies who are facilitating wildly underage children and other vulnerable people into getting into massively dangerous situations with potential paedophiles or worse are operating with impunity.

I blame parenting by iPad

That's too easy to give as a reason. When you can sign up for something like Tinder with basically no checks on who you are or how old you are there is something wrong.

It's really not that difficult to put some basic age checks in place.

Go on ...