Nigel Farage Launches New Brexit Party.
Discussion
wormus said:
I think that’s totally missing the point. This is no longer about the EU, it’s about people’s anger that the politicians who claim to represent us, actually only represent their own interests. Voting for Farage is the equivalent of throwing a grenade in the middle of it all. I’m voting for him in the same way I voted independent in our local elections.
You seriously think that St Farage is not acting in his own interests?He hates the EU and wants to destroy it. He doesn't care what happens to the UK or any of the EU27 as a consequence.
FiF said:
Another quote from the Unherd piece which a couple of posts immediately above are prime examples.
"Farage’s return is a clear symptom of his opponents’ complete failure to make sense of our post-referendum world. As a result, they are baffled and wrong-footed by his return. Farage has outplayed them all. But rather than meet this moment with imagination, too many in our politics and media have shown that they have no imagination at all. Rather than chart a new course, many have sought shelter in the dusty attic from which they plucked the unsuccessful arguments of 2016.
.... Ideas have left the building."
I think the way to look at the referendum, and the narrative that the EU isn't the cause of all our problems (which of course it isn't!), is that leaving the EU was the compromise. People said we don't like the way things are going, get us out of the EU and we won't burn the whole house down and start again from scratch. The establishment then took that as the starting point for 'compromise', took the piss and now the house is going to be burned down with them in it."Farage’s return is a clear symptom of his opponents’ complete failure to make sense of our post-referendum world. As a result, they are baffled and wrong-footed by his return. Farage has outplayed them all. But rather than meet this moment with imagination, too many in our politics and media have shown that they have no imagination at all. Rather than chart a new course, many have sought shelter in the dusty attic from which they plucked the unsuccessful arguments of 2016.
.... Ideas have left the building."
What I find particularly fascinating is that the clever, born to rule, know what's best types that have been studying PPE to prepare themselves for a life in politics, the media, and gnerally telling plebs what to do, can't even engage with these ideas, let alone understand them or learn anything from them. They're pretty obvious to anyone that's capable of opening their eyes.
wormus said:
This is no longer about the EU, it’s about people’s anger that the politicians who claim to represent us, actually only represent their own interests. Voting for Farage is the equivalent of throwing a grenade in the middle of it all. I’m voting for him in the same way I voted independent in our local elections.
Desperate measures in desperate times - I'm off soon to vote for our Nige 
Squiddly Diddly said:
wormus said:
I think that’s totally missing the point. This is no longer about the EU, it’s about people’s anger that the politicians who claim to represent us, actually only represent their own interests. Voting for Farage is the equivalent of throwing a grenade in the middle of it all. I’m voting for him in the same way I voted independent in our local elections.
You seriously think that St Farage is not acting in his own interests?He hates the EU and wants to destroy it. He doesn't care what happens to the UK or any of the EU27 as a consequence.
I think it's only a minority that see Farage as more than a short-term vehicle for change. He's only here beyond his short-term use because the establishment refuses to change, refuses to take us out of the EU.
cookie118 said:
FiF said:
Thanks for promoting this.
One sentence from it "There are few things that the Brits like less than sore losers; there is little they value more than playing by the rules."
And yet that point doesn’t seem to apply to leave.eu or farage and their various transgressions?One sentence from it "There are few things that the Brits like less than sore losers; there is little they value more than playing by the rules."
paulrockliffe said:
The establishment then took that as the starting point for 'compromise', took the piss and now the house is going to be burned down with them in it.
But nothing’s getting burned down. There aren’t any seismic changes. Just some people voting for one self serving politician instead of another. paulrockliffe said:
See, that may or may not be true, but it doesn't matter at all if what you want is for politics to be flattened and sorted out properly. Farage is the only vehicle for political change going, you either vote for his party, or you vote for us to stay in the EU and for the status quo.
I think it's only a minority that see Farage as more than a short-term vehicle for change. He's only here beyond his short-term use because the establishment refuses to change, refuses to take us out of the EU.
Spot on I think it's only a minority that see Farage as more than a short-term vehicle for change. He's only here beyond his short-term use because the establishment refuses to change, refuses to take us out of the EU.
paulrockliffe said:
FiF said:
Another quote from the Unherd piece which a couple of posts immediately above are prime examples.
"Farage’s return is a clear symptom of his opponents’ complete failure to make sense of our post-referendum world. As a result, they are baffled and wrong-footed by his return. Farage has outplayed them all. But rather than meet this moment with imagination, too many in our politics and media have shown that they have no imagination at all. Rather than chart a new course, many have sought shelter in the dusty attic from which they plucked the unsuccessful arguments of 2016.
.... Ideas have left the building."
I think the way to look at the referendum, and the narrative that the EU isn't the cause of all our problems (which of course it isn't!), is that leaving the EU was the compromise. People said we don't like the way things are going, get us out of the EU and we won't burn the whole house down and start again from scratch. The establishment then took that as the starting point for 'compromise', took the piss and now the house is going to be burned down with them in it."Farage’s return is a clear symptom of his opponents’ complete failure to make sense of our post-referendum world. As a result, they are baffled and wrong-footed by his return. Farage has outplayed them all. But rather than meet this moment with imagination, too many in our politics and media have shown that they have no imagination at all. Rather than chart a new course, many have sought shelter in the dusty attic from which they plucked the unsuccessful arguments of 2016.
.... Ideas have left the building."
What I find particularly fascinating is that the clever, born to rule, know what's best types that have been studying PPE to prepare themselves for a life in politics, the media, and gnerally telling plebs what to do, can't even engage with these ideas, let alone understand them or learn anything from them. They're pretty obvious to anyone that's capable of opening their eyes.
On another point while I'm here, how often have comments about shy leavers been laughed at and derided? Cue, they won't get 52% comfort blankets now incoming....
bigdog3 said:
wormus said:
This is no longer about the EU, it’s about people’s anger that the politicians who claim to represent us, actually only represent their own interests. Voting for Farage is the equivalent of throwing a grenade in the middle of it all. I’m voting for him in the same way I voted independent in our local elections.
Desperate measures in desperate times - I'm off soon to vote for our Nige El stovey said:
I think it’s utterly depressing.
A load of dissatisfied people, convinced the E.U. is somehow the source of their problems and even worse, that voting for Farage in an E.U. referendum will in any way make their lot any better.
Its thats your genuine thoughts on what we are seeing, you are seriously out of touch with the mood in the nation.A load of dissatisfied people, convinced the E.U. is somehow the source of their problems and even worse, that voting for Farage in an E.U. referendum will in any way make their lot any better.
paulrockliffe said:
See, that may or may not be true, but it doesn't matter at all if what you want is for politics to be flattened and sorted out properly. Farage is the only vehicle for political change going, you either vote for his party, or you vote for us to stay in the EU and for the status quo.
I think it's only a minority that see Farage as more than a short-term vehicle for change. He's only here beyond his short-term use because the establishment refuses to change, refuses to take us out of the EU.
He isn't the catalyst of a fundamental change in UK politics. It will remain a two horse race.I think it's only a minority that see Farage as more than a short-term vehicle for change. He's only here beyond his short-term use because the establishment refuses to change, refuses to take us out of the EU.
We are in the process of leaving the EU. Just because it isn't happening as quickly as you would like doesn't change that.
Roman Rhodes said:
Tuna said:
Elysium said:
I don't think Farage is a racist, but it is beyond doubt that the Breaking Point poster was fascist in nature and that it had racist undertones.
And the use of the term 'racist' to shut down any discussion is positive how exactly? What result are we seeing as a consequence of that strategy?This is exactly the sort of hypocrisy that turns voters off:
"The UK immigration problem wasn't the fault of the EU, we could change at any time!"
"OK, we'd like to talk about changing it"
"Racist! Facist! Xenophobe!"
Why do those with issues about immigration cry wolf all the time? It’s a lazy and failed argument.
And this isn't about having issues with immigration - personally, immigration just isn't something I'm worried about - this is about how the debate is being framed and how people react to it. Rather than have a grown up discussion about policies and different viewpoints, there is this constant barrage of people trivialising other's concerns and wildly misrepresenting their issues.
It's one of the reasons I post on here about Brexit - my social media feed is dribbling with vitriol from people who I'd otherwise regard as smart, well educated and reasonable. And I'm convinced I'm not the only person who reads posts that say "Yay, that racist Farage has been attacked, he deserves it!" and thinks - you know what, I don't like your side of the debate any more.
El stovey said:
paulrockliffe said:
The establishment then took that as the starting point for 'compromise', took the piss and now the house is going to be burned down with them in it.
But nothing’s getting burned down. There aren’t any seismic changes. Just some people voting for one self serving politician instead of another. What % of the vote did Cons and Labour get in 2017? What are the polls saying they'll get today?
It's a lazy smear to say that nothing is changing because Frage has been in politics for a long time.
I see the Remainers are STILL under-estimating/attacking Farage. WHEN will they ever learn this doesn't work? Sunday evening could be a start but somehow I doubt it. Some people are just, sadly, terminally deluded.
Who in their right mind would try and belittle the career of a politician who looks entirely likely to re-write the history books AGAIN? Sad, desperate, sore losers, that's who.
Who in their right mind would try and belittle the career of a politician who looks entirely likely to re-write the history books AGAIN? Sad, desperate, sore losers, that's who.
Edited by Cohen123 on Thursday 23 May 10:39
Tuna said:
Rather than have a grown up discussion about policies and different viewpoints, there is this constant barrage of people trivialising other's concerns and wildly misrepresenting their issues.
You mean like leavers constantly characterising remainers as ‘bedwetters’ when they try and raise valid concerns?FiF said:
Yep, EU referendum was the catalyst, and the way it has been handled has just poured petrol on the fire. Yet only yesterday someone was saying it was pointless to debate due to others complete inability to understand the complex situation, yet that individual in other ways is a prime example of someone not having a clue about the most basic of real issues encountered daily by many.
On another point while I'm here, how often have comments about shy leavers been laughed at and derided? Cue, they won't get 52% comfort blankets now incoming....
Ok but exactly which complex issues will voting for Farage solve? On another point while I'm here, how often have comments about shy leavers been laughed at and derided? Cue, they won't get 52% comfort blankets now incoming....
Everyone knows there’s all sorts of issues that people might be unhappy with but what are they and what is Farage planning to do about them?
Your last paragraph looks like you think voting for Farage gives you some kind of revenge for people laughing at you?
You voted brexit, then you’re unhappy people saying you’re a thick racist so now you’re voting for Farage to teach them a lesson?
chrispmartha said:
I've always held the opinion that once the dust settles in all of this there are going to be a lot of very disappointed people when it turns out being in the EU wasn't really the source of their anger and problems in life, for many I suspect it's just a convenient bogey man to shout at.
Well voting Tory or Labour if you want the UK to leave the EU hasn’t worked out very well has it........I’m not angry just disappointed.
I’ve been and voted just after the polls opened - chucked my grenade in (x in the box for TBP)
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