Climate protesters block roads
Discussion
Helicopter123 said:
One of the great things about these protests is that they remind us all to re focus on reducing our carbon footprint. I will certainly be thinking about this when choosing the next car. How about you?
With that statement you have demonstrated the complete dream world most people seem to be in. It's like being on the titanic and they announce the ship is going to sink and some thick sod at the back goes "i've got a cup I could help bail the water out and if we all get cups that will do it wont it?".
If you really want to do something and get to a point you and everyone needs to get to your statement should have been "I'm never going to buy another car, move into a house that is in walking/ cycling distance for work schools and so on, which is completely carbon neutral or even carbon negative. Never fly on a plane again give up my consumerist lifestyle wanting the latest gadgets, clothing and become a vegetarian. Also campaign the government to turn the street light off and turn the heating down in all the public buildings."
If we all get to that point and that's everyone one on earth not just us in the UK we may have a chance of having 7 billion + people on the planet without f
king it up. I'm all for having greener, cleaner and more efficient technology but if you think it's going to stop climate change sorry you are delusional
Edited by Not-The-Messiah on Tuesday 23 April 22:58
Not-The-Messiah said:
Helicopter123 said:
One of the great things about these protests is that they remind us all to re focus on reducing our carbon footprint. I will certainly be thinking about this when choosing the next car. How about you?
With that statement you have demonstrated the complete dream world most people seem to be in. It's like being on the titanic and they announce the ship is going to sink and some thick sod at the back goes "i've got a cup I could help bail the water out and if we all get cups that will do it wont it?".
If you really want to do something and get to a point you and everyone needs to get to your statement should have been "I'm never going to buy another car, move into a house that is in walking/ cycling distance for work schools and so on, which is completely carbon neutral or even carbon negative. Never fly on a plane again give up my consumerist lifestyle wanting the latest gadgets, clothing and become a vegetarian. Also campaign the government to turn the street light off and turn the heating down in all the public buildings."
If we all get to that point and that's everyone one on earth not just us in the UK we may have a chance of having 7 billion + people on the planet without f
king it up. I'm all for having greener, cleaner and more efficient technology but if you think it's going to stop climate change sorry you are delusional
Edited by Not-The-Messiah on Tuesday 23 April 22:58
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/07/best-way-r...
That recent BBC programme talked about the massive deforestation going on in, for instance, Brazil. I guess I could plant a tree in my back garden. That should do it. Thoughts and prayers etc.
Randy Winkman said:
andy_s said:
Randy Winkman said:
I'm sure that Ross Clark at The Spectator will give it the thumbs-up.
What a bullst thing to say. Did Ross Clark ad-hom her or call into question her abilities or other? I think you’ll find he didn’t, rather he was critical of the lack of hard questions put to her and rghtly so; it’s the whole point of her being the front person, interviewers can’t inquesitate a female child with mental issues in this day and age Randy, they’d be put to death. However, the questions he would hypothetically ask the kid are valid. If you're going to put yourself front-of-stage on a subject that is still - to this day - dividing opinions, then you open yourself to close scrutiny on your statements. It's no different to Mann et al publishing this:-
then being questioned on the methodology / datasets / stat analysis used to arrive at the conclusion in question.
Not-The-Messiah said:
With that statement you have demonstrated the complete dream world most people seem to be in.
It's like being on the titanic and they announce the ship is going to sink and some thick sod at the back goes "i've got a cup I could help bail the water out and if we all get cups that will do it wont it?".
If you really want to do something and get to a point you and everyone needs to get to your statement should have been "I'm never going to buy another car, move into a house that is in walking/ cycling distance for work schools and so on, which is completely carbon neutral or even carbon negative. Never fly on a plane again give up my consumerist lifestyle wanting the latest gadgets, clothing and become a vegetarian. Also campaign the government to turn the street light off and turn the heating down in all the public buildings."
If we all get to that point and that's everyone one on earth not just us in the UK we may have a chance of having 7 billion + people on the planet without fking it up.
I'm all for having greener, cleaner and more efficient technology but if you think it's going to stop climate change sorry you are delusional
But you're (likely - certainly many posters have done before) using extreme points here to try and say it's (presumably) pointless to bother.It's like being on the titanic and they announce the ship is going to sink and some thick sod at the back goes "i've got a cup I could help bail the water out and if we all get cups that will do it wont it?".
If you really want to do something and get to a point you and everyone needs to get to your statement should have been "I'm never going to buy another car, move into a house that is in walking/ cycling distance for work schools and so on, which is completely carbon neutral or even carbon negative. Never fly on a plane again give up my consumerist lifestyle wanting the latest gadgets, clothing and become a vegetarian. Also campaign the government to turn the street light off and turn the heating down in all the public buildings."
If we all get to that point and that's everyone one on earth not just us in the UK we may have a chance of having 7 billion + people on the planet without f
king it up. I'm all for having greener, cleaner and more efficient technology but if you think it's going to stop climate change sorry you are delusional
First, the CO2 impact is not just no problem/disaster with a hard border. Unless you flip something in the global circulation system at a tipping point (for us in Europe the obvious thing would be the Gulf Stream) then reducing emissions by say 10% will help, even if it didn't stop all the bad effects of climate change. So it's not completely pointless - every little does help.
You mention the UK - and a lot seem to bring up it's pointless only us in the UK doing something. In reality it's not. The US and Europe are on average reducing their CO2 emissions already. And being over 25% of worldwide CO2 emissions it's not nothing. And tech will have knock on effects elsewhere as the price becomes cheaper. Denmark has gone for the first subsidy free wind farm last year for example. Even some of the middle eastern countries are starting solar now.
Yes, China is the obvious issue in terms of largest emitter, but will presumably face pressure related to air quality etc, in addition to external countries pushing them too. So hopefully they will do more through time too.
NRS said:
But you're (likely - certainly many posters have done before) using extreme points here to try and say it's (presumably) pointless to bother.
First, the CO2 impact is not just no problem/disaster with a hard border. Unless you flip something in the global circulation system at a tipping point (for us in Europe the obvious thing would be the Gulf Stream) then reducing emissions by say 10% will help, even if it didn't stop all the bad effects of climate change. So it's not completely pointless - every little does help.
You mention the UK - and a lot seem to bring up it's pointless only us in the UK doing something. In reality it's not. The US and Europe are on average reducing their CO2 emissions already. And being over 25% of worldwide CO2 emissions it's not nothing. And tech will have knock on effects elsewhere as the price becomes cheaper. Denmark has gone for the first subsidy free wind farm last year for example. Even some of the middle eastern countries are starting solar now.
Yes, China is the obvious issue in terms of largest emitter, but will presumably face pressure related to air quality etc, in addition to external countries pushing them too. So hopefully they will do more through time too.
It's not just China its India, Africa billions of people who see what we have and understandably want the same and if that means doing what we have, digging every last bit of energy out the ground they will do. First, the CO2 impact is not just no problem/disaster with a hard border. Unless you flip something in the global circulation system at a tipping point (for us in Europe the obvious thing would be the Gulf Stream) then reducing emissions by say 10% will help, even if it didn't stop all the bad effects of climate change. So it's not completely pointless - every little does help.
You mention the UK - and a lot seem to bring up it's pointless only us in the UK doing something. In reality it's not. The US and Europe are on average reducing their CO2 emissions already. And being over 25% of worldwide CO2 emissions it's not nothing. And tech will have knock on effects elsewhere as the price becomes cheaper. Denmark has gone for the first subsidy free wind farm last year for example. Even some of the middle eastern countries are starting solar now.
Yes, China is the obvious issue in terms of largest emitter, but will presumably face pressure related to air quality etc, in addition to external countries pushing them too. So hopefully they will do more through time too.
Now if we can offer them the same lifestyle in a better way for the planet then grate but the fact is we can't and show no signs of being able to. We are not close to doing it for ourselves never mind the rest of the world. Unless we crack nuclear fusion or some yet unknown energy production.
Question let's say we run every car, van, Truck on the UK roads on biofuel and we grow it on the side of every road in the country how wide do you think the field would need to be on each side of the road to achieve this?
Like I said i'm all for doing what we can but be we need to be honest and stop kidding ourselves. It's like having gangrene in both legs caused by diabetes yes you can take a few antibiotics and a few painkillers and it may slow it down and make you feel better but eventually the legs will need chopping off. My argument is lets not chop them off to soon and make sure we have a nice fancy wheelchair ready before we do.
Edited by Not-The-Messiah on Wednesday 24th April 00:31
A Winner Is You said:
Randy Winkman said:
A Winner Is You said:
Funny how the same people who say we should give 16 year olds the vote are angry when the opinions of a 16 year old are challenged.
I don't understand? I'm pleased she is being listened to. What's the problem?It's one of the most cynical heart tugging piles of crap I have heard in an advertisement
garagewidow said:
I'm sick of all this now.
Can we revoke article 50 and let XR have their way.
I'll gladly sit back and watch the humungous st storm hit the fan in a few years.
I don't think it is directly Brexit related, though it does seem to be a certain type of socialist tree hugger type (lol at them gluing themselves to Corbyn's fence, and he blanked them Can we revoke article 50 and let XR have their way.
I'll gladly sit back and watch the humungous s
t storm hit the fan in a few years.
) It has been painful to watch the lumbering dinosaur that is the Met Police go from skateboarding with the group to arresting them and getting tough. The irony behind their movement bringing a non compliant Euro4 DAF truck onto Waterloo Bridge despite the ULEZ which is supposed to help the environment, was sweet in itself 
It was just kids taking advantage of the current political vacuum. London has effectively been without a Mayor since Boris Johnson left, plus the weakest Tory government in living memory currently presides over us. Article 50 probably will be revoked, I can't see them removing May, the last attempt had them even praising and backing her. Whoever takes over, no matter how strong a Brexiteer will still have to deal with Europe one way or another. We can't just brick up the Channel Tunnel and pull up the drawbridge.
They need us, as much as we need them, but hopefully Brexit, plus Macron and his own domestic issues with Gilet Jaune protests, might make the EU realise the project in its current form is not working. We never hear of the chaos in Italy or Greece anymore, but migration cannot continue in its current form anyway. The lot in Brussels will have to rethink the current system. It's like a struggling London Borough, but in a larger form at the moment
techiedave said:
A Winner Is You said:
Randy Winkman said:
A Winner Is You said:
Funny how the same people who say we should give 16 year olds the vote are angry when the opinions of a 16 year old are challenged.
I don't understand? I'm pleased she is being listened to. What's the problem?It's one of the most cynical heart tugging piles of crap I have heard in an advertisement
We did get a Smart Meter, mainly due to the brother in law, who's temporarily moved in, kept leaving lots of appliances on in his room, and there's an electrical hum like Dungeness Power Station... it has made us cut down power a bit and stops the guesstimate bills coming
Greta said:
As the rumours, lies and constant leaving out of well established facts continue, please share this newly updated clarification about me and my school strike.
Please help me communicate this to the grown ups who lie about me and family so that I can focus on school instead:
Recently I’ve seen many rumors circulating about me and enormous amounts of hate. This is no surprise to me. I know that since most people are not aware of the full meaning of the climate crisis (which is understandable since it has never been treated as a crisis) a school strike for the climate would seem very strange to people in general.
So let me make some things clear about my school strike.
In may 2018 I was one of the winners in a writing competition about the environment held by Svenska Dagbladet, a Swedish newspaper. I got my article published and some people contacted me, among others was Bo Thorén from Fossil Free Dalsland. He had some kind of group with people, especially youth, who wanted to do something about the climate crisis.
I had a few phone meetings with other activists. The purpose was to come up with ideas of new projects that would bring attention to the climate crisis. Bo had a few ideas of things we could do. Everything from marches to a loose idea of some kind of a school strike (that school children would do something on the schoolyards or in the classrooms). That idea was inspired by the Parkland Students, who had refused to go to school after the school shootings.
I liked the idea of a school strike. So I developed that idea and tried to get the other young people to join me, but no one was really interested. They thought that a Swedish version of the Zero Hour march was going to have a bigger impact. So I went on planning the school strike all by myself and after that I didn’t participate in any more meetings.
When I told my parents about my plans they weren’t very fond of it. They did not support the idea of school striking and they said that if I were to do this I would have to do it completely by myself and with no support from them.
On the 20 of august I sat down outside the Swedish Parliament. I handed out fliers with a long list of facts about the climate crisis and explanations on why I was striking. The first thing I did was to post on Twitter and Instagram what I was doing and it soon went viral. Then journalists and newspapers started to come. A Swedish entrepreneur and business man active in the climate movement, Ingmar Rentzhog, was among the first to arrive. He spoke with me and took pictures that he posted on Facebook. That was the first time I had ever met or spoken with him. I had not communicated or encountered with him ever before.
Many people love to spread rumors saying that I have people ”behind me” or that I’m being ”paid” or ”used” to do what I’m doing. But there is no one ”behind” me except for myself. My parents were as far from climate activists as possible before I made them aware of the situation.
I am not part of any organization. I sometimes support and cooperate with several NGOs that work with the climate and environment. But I am absolutely independent and I only represent myself. And I do what I do completely for free, I have not received any money or any promise of future payments in any form at all. And nor has anyone linked to me or my family done so.
And of course it will stay this way. I have not met one single climate activist who is fighting for the climate for money. That idea is completely absurd.
Furthermore I only travel with permission from my school and my parents pay for tickets and accommodations.
My family has written a book together about our family and how me and my sister Beata have influenced my parents way of thinking and seeing the world, especially when it comes to the climate. And about our diagnoses.
That book was due to be released in May. But since there was a major disagreement with the book company, we ended up changing to a new publisher and so the book was released in august instead.
Before the book was released my parents made it clear that their possible profits from the book ”Scener ur hjärtat” will be going to 8 different charities working with environment, children with diagnoses and animal rights.
And yes, I write my own speeches. But since I know that what I say is going to reach many, many people I often ask for input. I also have a few scientists that I frequently ask for help on how to express certain complicated matters. I want everything to be absolutely correct so that I don’t spread incorrect facts, or things that can be misunderstood.
Some people mock me for my diagnosis. But Asperger is not a disease, it’s a gift. People also say that since I have Asperger I couldn’t possibly have put myself in this position. But that’s exactly why I did this. Because if I would have been ”normal” and social I would have organized myself in an organisation, or started an organisation by myself. But since I am not that good at socializing I did this instead. I was so frustrated that nothing was being done about the climate crisis and I felt like I had to do something, anything. And sometimes NOT doing things - like just sitting down outside the parliament - speaks much louder than doing things. Just like a whisper sometimes is louder than shouting.
Also there is one complaint that I ”sound and write like an adult”. And to that I can only say; don’t you think that a 16-year old can speak for herself? There’s also some people who say that I oversimplify things. For example when I say that "the climate crisis is a black and white issue”, ”we need to stop the emissions of greenhouse gases” and ”I want you to panic”. But that I only say because it’s true. Yes, the climate crisis is the most complex issue that we have ever faced and it’s going to take everything from our part to ”stop it”. But the solution is black and white; we need to stop the emissions of greenhouse gases.
Because either we limit the warming to 1,5 degrees C over pre industrial levels, or we don’t. Either we reach a tipping point where we start a chain reaction with events way beyond human control, or we don’t. Either we go on as a civilization, or we don’t. There are no gray areas when it comes to survival.
And when I say that I want you to panic I mean that we need to treat the crisis as a crisis. When your house is on fire you don’t sit down and talk about how nice you can rebuild it once you put out the fire. If your house is on fire you run outside and make sure that everyone is out while you call the fire department. That requires some level of panic.
There is one other argument that I can’t do anything about. And that is the fact that I’m ”just a child and we shouldn’t be listening to children.” But that is easily fixed - just start to listen to the rock solid science instead. Because if everyone listened to the scientists and the facts that I constantly refer to - then no one would have to listen to me or any of the other hundreds of thousands of school children on strike for the climate across the world. Then we could all go back to school.
I am just a messenger, and yet I get all this hate. I am not saying anything new, I am just saying what scientists have repeatedly said for decades. And I agree with you, I’m too young to do this. We children shouldn’t have to do this. But since almost no one is doing anything, and our very future is at risk, we feel like we have to continue.
And if you have any other concern or doubt about me, then you can listen to my TED talk ( https://www.ted.com/talks/greta_thunberg_the_disar... ), in which I talk about how my interest for the climate and environment began.
And thank you everyone for your kind support! It brings me hope.
/Greta
Ps I was briefly a youth advisor for the board of the non profit foundation “We don’t have time”. It turns out they used my name as part of another branch of their organisation that is a start up business. They have admitted clearly that they did so without the knowledge of me or my family. I no longer have any connection to “We don’t have time”. Nor does anyone in my family. They have deeply apologised for what has happened and I have accepted their apology.
Please help me communicate this to the grown ups who lie about me and family so that I can focus on school instead:
Recently I’ve seen many rumors circulating about me and enormous amounts of hate. This is no surprise to me. I know that since most people are not aware of the full meaning of the climate crisis (which is understandable since it has never been treated as a crisis) a school strike for the climate would seem very strange to people in general.
So let me make some things clear about my school strike.
In may 2018 I was one of the winners in a writing competition about the environment held by Svenska Dagbladet, a Swedish newspaper. I got my article published and some people contacted me, among others was Bo Thorén from Fossil Free Dalsland. He had some kind of group with people, especially youth, who wanted to do something about the climate crisis.
I had a few phone meetings with other activists. The purpose was to come up with ideas of new projects that would bring attention to the climate crisis. Bo had a few ideas of things we could do. Everything from marches to a loose idea of some kind of a school strike (that school children would do something on the schoolyards or in the classrooms). That idea was inspired by the Parkland Students, who had refused to go to school after the school shootings.
I liked the idea of a school strike. So I developed that idea and tried to get the other young people to join me, but no one was really interested. They thought that a Swedish version of the Zero Hour march was going to have a bigger impact. So I went on planning the school strike all by myself and after that I didn’t participate in any more meetings.
When I told my parents about my plans they weren’t very fond of it. They did not support the idea of school striking and they said that if I were to do this I would have to do it completely by myself and with no support from them.
On the 20 of august I sat down outside the Swedish Parliament. I handed out fliers with a long list of facts about the climate crisis and explanations on why I was striking. The first thing I did was to post on Twitter and Instagram what I was doing and it soon went viral. Then journalists and newspapers started to come. A Swedish entrepreneur and business man active in the climate movement, Ingmar Rentzhog, was among the first to arrive. He spoke with me and took pictures that he posted on Facebook. That was the first time I had ever met or spoken with him. I had not communicated or encountered with him ever before.
Many people love to spread rumors saying that I have people ”behind me” or that I’m being ”paid” or ”used” to do what I’m doing. But there is no one ”behind” me except for myself. My parents were as far from climate activists as possible before I made them aware of the situation.
I am not part of any organization. I sometimes support and cooperate with several NGOs that work with the climate and environment. But I am absolutely independent and I only represent myself. And I do what I do completely for free, I have not received any money or any promise of future payments in any form at all. And nor has anyone linked to me or my family done so.
And of course it will stay this way. I have not met one single climate activist who is fighting for the climate for money. That idea is completely absurd.
Furthermore I only travel with permission from my school and my parents pay for tickets and accommodations.
My family has written a book together about our family and how me and my sister Beata have influenced my parents way of thinking and seeing the world, especially when it comes to the climate. And about our diagnoses.
That book was due to be released in May. But since there was a major disagreement with the book company, we ended up changing to a new publisher and so the book was released in august instead.
Before the book was released my parents made it clear that their possible profits from the book ”Scener ur hjärtat” will be going to 8 different charities working with environment, children with diagnoses and animal rights.
And yes, I write my own speeches. But since I know that what I say is going to reach many, many people I often ask for input. I also have a few scientists that I frequently ask for help on how to express certain complicated matters. I want everything to be absolutely correct so that I don’t spread incorrect facts, or things that can be misunderstood.
Some people mock me for my diagnosis. But Asperger is not a disease, it’s a gift. People also say that since I have Asperger I couldn’t possibly have put myself in this position. But that’s exactly why I did this. Because if I would have been ”normal” and social I would have organized myself in an organisation, or started an organisation by myself. But since I am not that good at socializing I did this instead. I was so frustrated that nothing was being done about the climate crisis and I felt like I had to do something, anything. And sometimes NOT doing things - like just sitting down outside the parliament - speaks much louder than doing things. Just like a whisper sometimes is louder than shouting.
Also there is one complaint that I ”sound and write like an adult”. And to that I can only say; don’t you think that a 16-year old can speak for herself? There’s also some people who say that I oversimplify things. For example when I say that "the climate crisis is a black and white issue”, ”we need to stop the emissions of greenhouse gases” and ”I want you to panic”. But that I only say because it’s true. Yes, the climate crisis is the most complex issue that we have ever faced and it’s going to take everything from our part to ”stop it”. But the solution is black and white; we need to stop the emissions of greenhouse gases.
Because either we limit the warming to 1,5 degrees C over pre industrial levels, or we don’t. Either we reach a tipping point where we start a chain reaction with events way beyond human control, or we don’t. Either we go on as a civilization, or we don’t. There are no gray areas when it comes to survival.
And when I say that I want you to panic I mean that we need to treat the crisis as a crisis. When your house is on fire you don’t sit down and talk about how nice you can rebuild it once you put out the fire. If your house is on fire you run outside and make sure that everyone is out while you call the fire department. That requires some level of panic.
There is one other argument that I can’t do anything about. And that is the fact that I’m ”just a child and we shouldn’t be listening to children.” But that is easily fixed - just start to listen to the rock solid science instead. Because if everyone listened to the scientists and the facts that I constantly refer to - then no one would have to listen to me or any of the other hundreds of thousands of school children on strike for the climate across the world. Then we could all go back to school.
I am just a messenger, and yet I get all this hate. I am not saying anything new, I am just saying what scientists have repeatedly said for decades. And I agree with you, I’m too young to do this. We children shouldn’t have to do this. But since almost no one is doing anything, and our very future is at risk, we feel like we have to continue.
And if you have any other concern or doubt about me, then you can listen to my TED talk ( https://www.ted.com/talks/greta_thunberg_the_disar... ), in which I talk about how my interest for the climate and environment began.
And thank you everyone for your kind support! It brings me hope.
/Greta
Ps I was briefly a youth advisor for the board of the non profit foundation “We don’t have time”. It turns out they used my name as part of another branch of their organisation that is a start up business. They have admitted clearly that they did so without the knowledge of me or my family. I no longer have any connection to “We don’t have time”. Nor does anyone in my family. They have deeply apologised for what has happened and I have accepted their apology.
Greta said:
<yawn>
What a crock of st! WTF does she know about the world? She's just a kid and barely out of nappies. If she was really bothered about "climate change" she'd on the first plane to China or India and chaining herself to Jinping and Modi's respective front doors as they are 2 of the biggest polluters by country.She's just a clueless attention seeking kid and her and her ilk should either be forced to pay the costs in lost productivity for all the poor f
kers blocked by the protests or if she/they can't/won't pay then throw them in the slammer and make an example of them. 
As for voting, no-one under the age of 25 should be allowed to vote. It's not really until you reach around that age that you develop a pretty good grasp of how the world works.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Moving house is only one small part of the problem, think about schools, friends, social circles and you might not even like the other town. Also of course in many households these days both the Father and the Mother will have jobs, probably in different places.Less obvious but will be forefront in many peoples minds these days is lack of long term job security, what is the point of moving for work if one is not going to be working there in 5 years time.
Working remotely will need to expand greatly to help tackle this part of it all.
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