Notre Dame on fire - looks pretty serious
Discussion
peterperkins said:
67Dino said:
Controversial thought...
Rather than replacing the roof and spire with a copy of the original, I’d quite like to see a visibly modern (eg glass and metal) replacement. The spire was a 19thC addition anyway, the cost would be a fraction of an attempt at restoration, and Paris would gain something from the fire, not just end up with a copy of what was there.
Fully appreciate that wouldn’t be to everyone’s taste though.
Perfectly sensible.Rather than replacing the roof and spire with a copy of the original, I’d quite like to see a visibly modern (eg glass and metal) replacement. The spire was a 19thC addition anyway, the cost would be a fraction of an attempt at restoration, and Paris would gain something from the fire, not just end up with a copy of what was there.
Fully appreciate that wouldn’t be to everyone’s taste though.
Modern fire resistant materials would massively reduce future fire risk, be much cheaper and quicker to rebuild, give more scope for artistic/architectural changes, as well as negate the need to cut down loads of trees and source huge quantities of aged oak etc.
Cretin watch:
Straight from The Donalds "Big Book of Boasts". What a f
king tool.
Meanwhile, in the real world, experts think it could take decades. I hope (and am fairly sure) they will be able to rebuild. As others on here have already pointed out, it is not without precedent - York Minster etc. etc. - but spiriting some ludicrous short-term goal out of the air for political gain is the last thing an 800 year old world historic building needs.
BBC said:
French President Emmanuel Macron says Notre-Dame cathedral will be rebuilt "even more beautifully" - and that he wants the work done within five years.
Straight from The Donalds "Big Book of Boasts". What a f
king tool.Meanwhile, in the real world, experts think it could take decades. I hope (and am fairly sure) they will be able to rebuild. As others on here have already pointed out, it is not without precedent - York Minster etc. etc. - but spiriting some ludicrous short-term goal out of the air for political gain is the last thing an 800 year old world historic building needs.
The Reichstag in Berlin shows how a restoration can be both modern and respect the original architecture of the building. It would be interesting if the French government started an competition for the restoration of Notre Dame, though I suspect that this would not be a popular idea.
RosscoPCole said:
The Reichstag in Berlin shows how a restoration can be both modern and respect the original architecture of the building. It would be interesting if the French government started an competition for the restoration of Notre Dame, though I suspect that this would not be a popular idea.
Based on photos from inside though, theyll just be replacing the full roof most likely. The actual building looks pretty unharmed.The Daily Spit has good short drone video showing from above the charred remains of the roof sitting on top of the vaulted ceiling, 3 collapsed areas though.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6929643/B...
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6929643/B...
kev1974 said:
Turns out the billionaire donors just want a tax break.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6925139/F...
That's not what has been said. An expert has said he believes it would be possible to write this off against tax an no such request has been made.https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6925139/F...
DailyMail said:
Were the government to enact the policy, French taxpayers rather than the wealthy donors would foot most of the bill for repairs.
Ninety per cent of the sum donated would be taken off the wealthy individual's tax bill, leaving the Exchequer significantly out of pocket and needing to make up the shortfall from general taxation or by cutting spending.
So they want their €100m donations to only cost them €10m and cost the public the rest, genius.Ninety per cent of the sum donated would be taken off the wealthy individual's tax bill, leaving the Exchequer significantly out of pocket and needing to make up the shortfall from general taxation or by cutting spending.
The French would not stand for that and those involved from business who have promised money see this as a civil duty for the good of France.
Digga said:
Cretin watch:
Straight from The Donalds "Big Book of Boasts". What a fking tool.
Meanwhile, in the real world, experts think it could take decades. I hope (and am fairly sure) they will be able to rebuild. As others on here have already pointed out, it is not without precedent - York Minster etc. etc. - but spiriting some ludicrous short-term goal out of the air for political gain is the last thing an 800 year old world historic building needs.
It's no different to the "land a man on the moon" speech. The point in that case wasn't an absolute 10 year measure, it was a rallying cry that the US could rise to a challenge.BBC said:
French President Emmanuel Macron says Notre-Dame cathedral will be rebuilt "even more beautifully" - and that he wants the work done within five years.
Straight from The Donalds "Big Book of Boasts". What a f
king tool.Meanwhile, in the real world, experts think it could take decades. I hope (and am fairly sure) they will be able to rebuild. As others on here have already pointed out, it is not without precedent - York Minster etc. etc. - but spiriting some ludicrous short-term goal out of the air for political gain is the last thing an 800 year old world historic building needs.
No one will care if it is 5 or 10 years in this case, it is a sense of pride that France can respond.
The clear up, assessment and survey will probably take a year?
The redesign committees for things like the spire, 2 years?
Sourcing that much seasoned timber - similar?
Then there is finding that many artisan workers...
It's politics but not shameful politics in my view.
kev1974 said:
Turns out the billionaire donors just want a tax break.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6925139/F...
Under the current law, it is not deductible from his tax bill. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6925139/F...
DailyMail said:
Were the government to enact the policy, French taxpayers rather than the wealthy donors would foot most of the bill for repairs.
Ninety per cent of the sum donated would be taken off the wealthy individual's tax bill, leaving the Exchequer significantly out of pocket and needing to make up the shortfall from general taxation or by cutting spending.
So they want their €100m donations to only cost them €10m and cost the public the rest, genius.Ninety per cent of the sum donated would be taken off the wealthy individual's tax bill, leaving the Exchequer significantly out of pocket and needing to make up the shortfall from general taxation or by cutting spending.
Vaud said:
Sourcing that much seasoned timber - similar?
Genuine question - would a structure like that have been built with green or seasoned timber? If seasoned, I can't imagine there's a stockpile of either conveniently lying around.There's another article in the Wail suggesting that there aren't any more oak trees of the necessary height in France anymore in any case - apparently all the taller oak trees were cut down in the middle ages resulting in the 'tall' gene-pool being lost.
CambsBill said:
Genuine question - would a structure like that have been built with green or seasoned timber? If seasoned, I can't imagine there's a stockpile of either conveniently lying around.
There's another article in the Wail suggesting that there aren't any more oak trees of the necessary height in France anymore in any case - apparently all the taller oak trees were cut down in the middle ages resulting in the 'tall' gene-pool being lost.
I don't know, but York had to take a different approach and use laminated.There's another article in the Wail suggesting that there aren't any more oak trees of the necessary height in France anymore in any case - apparently all the taller oak trees were cut down in the middle ages resulting in the 'tall' gene-pool being lost.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/northyorkshire/iloveny/minste...
Vaud said:
CambsBill said:
Genuine question - would a structure like that have been built with green or seasoned timber? If seasoned, I can't imagine there's a stockpile of either conveniently lying around.
There's another article in the Wail suggesting that there aren't any more oak trees of the necessary height in France anymore in any case - apparently all the taller oak trees were cut down in the middle ages resulting in the 'tall' gene-pool being lost.
I don't know, but York had to take a different approach and use laminated.There's another article in the Wail suggesting that there aren't any more oak trees of the necessary height in France anymore in any case - apparently all the taller oak trees were cut down in the middle ages resulting in the 'tall' gene-pool being lost.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/northyorkshire/iloveny/minste...
Finding the 'right' materials is no mean feat.
IMHO, it all needs doing correctly, rather than quickly. Which is why Marcon's declaration is such a distasteful approach.
kev1974 said:
Turns out the billionaire donors just want a tax break.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6925139/F...
Er, no. They want to get an 90% offset against against income.https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6925139/F...
DailyMail said:
Were the government to enact the policy, French taxpayers rather than the wealthy donors would foot most of the bill for repairs.
Ninety per cent of the sum donated would be taken off the wealthy individual's tax bill, leaving the Exchequer significantly out of pocket and needing to make up the shortfall from general taxation or by cutting spending.
So they want their €100m donations to only cost them €10m and cost the public the rest, genius.Ninety per cent of the sum donated would be taken off the wealthy individual's tax bill, leaving the Exchequer significantly out of pocket and needing to make up the shortfall from general taxation or by cutting spending.
€100mio would mean that €90mio of income would not attract tax. The top rate of income tax in France is 45%, I believe. Therefore, the tax saving would be 45% of €90mio (€40.5mio). So effectively each €100mio donation would net cost €59.5mio and the French State stumps up the other €40.5mio.
It is like claiming Gift Aid when you give to a charity or sponsor someone on Just Giving here in the UK. Just on a HUGE scale. Offsetting charitable giving against tax is a well established principle in most Western economies.
Jewsons could knock out a batch of double ply gangnail trusses and have that up and running in no time, bit of fibreglass or single ply on top and job's a good un.
On a serious note this is tragic but am I alone in being surprised at the amount of coverage it's receiving in the media? No one died after all.
On a serious note this is tragic but am I alone in being surprised at the amount of coverage it's receiving in the media? No one died after all.
What has not been brought up is the spate of attacks on French Catholic churches in the last couple of months, including twelve attacks in one week.
The church of Saint-Sulpice, one of Paris` largest and most important, suffered an arson attack in march of this year causing damage running to several hundred million euro, while several other churches in the Paris area were also attacked to a lesser degree.
The way the media usually works is to speculate the life out of an incident like this, yet I have not heard this mentioned, why is that I wonder ?.
The church of Saint-Sulpice, one of Paris` largest and most important, suffered an arson attack in march of this year causing damage running to several hundred million euro, while several other churches in the Paris area were also attacked to a lesser degree.
The way the media usually works is to speculate the life out of an incident like this, yet I have not heard this mentioned, why is that I wonder ?.
dasigty said:
The church of Saint-Sulpice, one of Paris` largest and most important, suffered an arson attack in march of this year causing damage running to several hundred million euro,
Where do you get that number from? The damage was fairly minor.Though you make a good point that there have been a lot of attacks on churches this year in France.
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