Crossrail 'could be delayed until 2021'
Discussion
valiant said:
fblm said:
Interesting thanks... but ''driver''? Really? If there's fail safe signaling to the cab why does it need a driver to hit go and stop?
Yes, “driver”. Only the central core is ATO. The rest of the Elizabeth Line (to give it its proper name) is a legacy style signalling system (green/red lights). Won’t get very far without a driver!
How does a computer know it’s safe to depart? (Or even to stop for that matter).
“Crossrail will not open until 2021 and has incurred a further cost overrun that will take the total price of the London rail link to more than £18bn, Transport for London (TfL) has announced.”
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/nov/08/cr...
kev1974 said:
Berlin Airport project looking better run right now
Meanwhile, in Chinahttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBmr4pvivjs
they built that for $17Bn (or 11Bn or 12Bn depending on where you read). Very impressive looking thing! They had 40,000 workers on it at one point.
A few annoying things about this. BBC series breathlessly worshipping everyone that they showed in a yellow vest and hat.
I guess anyone that knew they were struggling was shunted into a broom closet.
The bbc must be gutted they cant keep repeating (6 parts so far?) that on the schedule.
The boss even scored his next job boasting of a job well done till he was rumbled.
Also that bug eyed train enthusiast on youtube going round all the stations saying how brilliant it all was . He suddenly vanished once the clown show was exposed.
Still there are tons more trains running into paddington where the whole adventure grinds too a halt
as per last 150+ years.
I guess anyone that knew they were struggling was shunted into a broom closet.
The bbc must be gutted they cant keep repeating (6 parts so far?) that on the schedule.
The boss even scored his next job boasting of a job well done till he was rumbled.
Also that bug eyed train enthusiast on youtube going round all the stations saying how brilliant it all was . He suddenly vanished once the clown show was exposed.
Still there are tons more trains running into paddington where the whole adventure grinds too a halt
as per last 150+ years.
All 'public' works seem to over run, and go over budget! Seems it's a licence to print money, or 'think of a number, double or treble it, add a nought or possibly 2', that's what you quote, fill yer boots!!
It's not the person signing off the quote or job who pays, so why would they worry about it?
Anyone do public works on here? Can you verify or challenge?
This is how it seems to us mere mortals. We've seen the reports of outlandish payments for changing a hospital lightbulb or some such thing!
It's not the person signing off the quote or job who pays, so why would they worry about it?
Anyone do public works on here? Can you verify or challenge?
This is how it seems to us mere mortals. We've seen the reports of outlandish payments for changing a hospital lightbulb or some such thing!
Short Grain said:
All 'public' works seem to over run, and go over budget! Seems it's a licence to print money, or 'think of a number, double or treble it, add a nought or possibly 2', that's what you quote, fill yer boots!!
It's not the person signing off the quote or job who pays, so why would they worry about it?
Anyone do public works on here? Can you verify or challenge?
This is how it seems to us mere mortals. We've seen the reports of outlandish payments for changing a hospital lightbulb or some such thing!
I would say rather a lot of building works suffer... And the bigger the project, the higher the risk as the risks of the unknown increases massively. It's not the person signing off the quote or job who pays, so why would they worry about it?
Anyone do public works on here? Can you verify or challenge?
This is how it seems to us mere mortals. We've seen the reports of outlandish payments for changing a hospital lightbulb or some such thing!
IME the building trade doesn't help itself with lack of thoroughness or methodical process. But even that is often the result of trying to scrimp on cost up front.
Quote £5 to win the bid (with dependencies up the wazoo), then sit back as the customer changes things and the unknowns become known et voila, £50 now and twice as long. Rinse and repeat.
Otispunkmeyer said:
Meanwhile, in China
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBmr4pvivjs
they built that for $17Bn (or 11Bn or 12Bn depending on where you read). Very impressive looking thing! They had 40,000 workers on it at one point.
That was on a greenfield site so no concerns required for any existing infrastructure, little easier that digging under London!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBmr4pvivjs
they built that for $17Bn (or 11Bn or 12Bn depending on where you read). Very impressive looking thing! They had 40,000 workers on it at one point.
Average labour costs are about 40%-50% of UK costs based on the numbers I got from a Chinese client earlier this year (and that's higher than average over last 5-6 years apparently) so that makes things more cost effective too.
That said, still amazing achievement and Crossrail is a s
t show.arfursleep said:
Otispunkmeyer said:
Meanwhile, in China
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBmr4pvivjs
they built that for $17Bn (or 11Bn or 12Bn depending on where you read). Very impressive looking thing! They had 40,000 workers on it at one point.
That was on a greenfield site so no concerns required for any existing infrastructure, little easier that digging under London!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBmr4pvivjs
they built that for $17Bn (or 11Bn or 12Bn depending on where you read). Very impressive looking thing! They had 40,000 workers on it at one point.
Average labour costs are about 40%-50% of UK costs based on the numbers I got from a Chinese client earlier this year (and that's higher than average over last 5-6 years apparently) so that makes things more cost effective too.
That said, still amazing achievement and Crossrail is a s
t show.Edited by Otispunkmeyer on Friday 8th November 15:36
Leithen said:
Does anyone know what the story behind the latest Crossrail delay is?
Surely the hardest part of the project ought to have been building it, not figuring out how to get a signalling system working?
80/20 ... 80% of it will take 20% of the time (the build) and 20% of it will take 80% of the time (systems and their integration, mechanical and electrical, connecting it all together, testing cycle etc).Surely the hardest part of the project ought to have been building it, not figuring out how to get a signalling system working?
TX.
Otispunkmeyer said:
kev1974 said:
Berlin Airport project looking better run right now
Meanwhile, in Chinahttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBmr4pvivjs
they built that for $17Bn (or 11Bn or 12Bn depending on where you read). Very impressive looking thing! They had 40,000 workers on it at one point.
TX.
Short Grain said:
All 'public' works seem to over run, and go over budget! Seems it's a licence to print money, or 'think of a number, double or treble it, add a nought or possibly 2', that's what you quote, fill yer boots!!
It's not the person signing off the quote or job who pays, so why would they worry about it?
Anyone do public works on here? Can you verify or challenge?
This is how it seems to us mere mortals. We've seen the reports of outlandish payments for changing a hospital lightbulb or some such thing!
Have you asked the shareholders and employees of Carillion?It's not the person signing off the quote or job who pays, so why would they worry about it?
Anyone do public works on here? Can you verify or challenge?
This is how it seems to us mere mortals. We've seen the reports of outlandish payments for changing a hospital lightbulb or some such thing!
Otispunkmeyer said:
Yeah I know, I was gonna caveat the post, but forgot. China probably has less red-tape and more willingness to just steam roll whatever is in the way of getting big public stuff like this built. Have you seen the new terminal/space they added at Singapore's airport? Now that is bloody impressive! The waterfall feature is probably one of the most beautiful features I've seen on a building.
No comparison. Edited by Otispunkmeyer on Friday 8th November 15:36
Agammemnon said:
snuffy said:
As some who's just left working on a major infrastructure project (Thames Tideway Tunnel - £4 billion, so a similar size to CR), working on the software that controls the tunnel, this delay comes as no surprise to me.
How much control does a tunnel full of sewage need?I agree, you'd just think it was a load of liquid flowing up a massive tunnel - how hard can that be ? But there's all sorts of things to consider. Flows into it have to be considered, dangerous gases, things akin to tidal bores (its' 25km long - the level at one end will not be same as the level at the other). Massive pumps to control lifting the sewage between pumping stations. Controlling the flow into the processing plant at the end; weather conditions and rain fall predictions have to be taken into account; storms could massively increase flows which could damage the tunnel so it may need to be closed at various points along its length. multiple site these have to be interlocked with each other. Power considerations as well. There's a massive comms infrastructure installation required to support the interconnections between dozens of sites.
The thing is, you flush your trap and don't give it a second thought (who does ?). But believe me, there's a lot of stuff required - I spent 3 years as the Lead Software Controls Engineer for the Systems Integrator and even I was surprised just what is required.
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