Facebook bans UK far right groups
Discussion
Teddy Lop said:
well put.
I never went to uni, but the vast majority of my social circle did. What strikes me is how the overwhelming majority subscribe to a simplistic and instinctive "right is bad" ideal that's quite alarming. They're mostly intelligent and educated but don't understand the basic concept of the left and the right upholding the system of democracy by opposing each other and both being vital. They instinctively sneer at anything "right" but offer little discourse on why, more just offense on that its even up for discussion. They are, in my opinion, brainwashed.
I wondered if this was something that happened around the time the truth about the Soviets became well known, that the "forces of the left" if you will simply gave up trying to promote socialist ideaology or idealistic communist dream and switched exclusively to attacking and smearing the right. But I've started to read atlas shrugged and my god, the book could have been written yesterday.
I think you'd find this interesting.I never went to uni, but the vast majority of my social circle did. What strikes me is how the overwhelming majority subscribe to a simplistic and instinctive "right is bad" ideal that's quite alarming. They're mostly intelligent and educated but don't understand the basic concept of the left and the right upholding the system of democracy by opposing each other and both being vital. They instinctively sneer at anything "right" but offer little discourse on why, more just offense on that its even up for discussion. They are, in my opinion, brainwashed.
I wondered if this was something that happened around the time the truth about the Soviets became well known, that the "forces of the left" if you will simply gave up trying to promote socialist ideaology or idealistic communist dream and switched exclusively to attacking and smearing the right. But I've started to read atlas shrugged and my god, the book could have been written yesterday.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bX3EZCVj2XA
Ideological Subversion by KGB defector Yuri Bezmenov.
I'll leave this snippet to whet your appetite
Marxism-Leninism ideology is being pumped into the soft heads of at least 3 generations of American students, without being challenged.
Countdown said:
samdale said:
They regularly spout hatred towards anyone right of centre. The fact that they label all their targets as fascists in order to justify their actions is the problem.
Have they ever labelled anybody as fascists who aren’t far right?
markcoznottz said:
Countdown said:
samdale said:
They regularly spout hatred towards anyone right of centre. The fact that they label all their targets as fascists in order to justify their actions is the problem.
Have they ever labelled anybody as fascists who aren’t far right?markcoznottz said:
The far right stuff is a side show. As a % of the uk population they are tiny. Having concerns about the scale and type of immigration is enough to be branded a racist now.
Oh dera. How sad. never mind....markcoznottz said:
I made a comment in the Bradford thread about a mob of Pakistani/ Bangladeshi youths in Bradford frustrating arrests and stoning police cars. How do I know, it was on bodycam cops, caught on film. Countdown had this thread removed, he also took offence at a similar post re cash for crash. I think when people can't accept things as they are, regardless of opinion, then we are on dodgy ground.
I genuinely have no idea what you're on about but (based on a lot of your comments) I can guess what you might have said, so I'm not surprised somebody complained about it and the Mods thought it worthy of a ban. I can guarantee you that it wasn't me. amusingduck said:
Why does communism get a pass? You would never see an MP saying that Hitler did more good than bad, but it has been said about Mao despite causing 5 times more deaths. Bonkers.
This is a question worth considering. To my mind it seems that Hitler is the archetypal bad guy of modern times, especially in a European context. Really modern history is post war history, and it's the ruins of post war Europe which provides the context for it. Our defences are mostly geared towards preventing that sort of tyranny rising again.
There's good reason for all that, but I do think it blindsides us to other forms of tyranny which can be just as bad.
Secondly there's a total disconnect in some circles between the ideology of communism and the results. They believe that Stalin, Mao etc were the evil element and they twisted or abused the ideology to suit their own ends. They seem to wilfully ignore that the result has been remarkably consistent across the whole diverse range of countries which have tried it. They will even temper their condemnation of such regimes with notions such as the USSR having full employment or Cuba having competitively good healthcare. As though that somehow mitigates death camps full of political prisoners.
The underlying ideology is always excused.
Countdown said:
markcoznottz said:
Countdown said:
samdale said:
They regularly spout hatred towards anyone right of centre. The fact that they label all their targets as fascists in order to justify their actions is the problem.
Have they ever labelled anybody as fascists who aren’t far right?markcoznottz said:
The far right stuff is a side show. As a % of the uk population they are tiny. Having concerns about the scale and type of immigration is enough to be branded a racist now.
Oh dera. How sad. never mind....markcoznottz said:
I made a comment in the Bradford thread about a mob of Pakistani/ Bangladeshi youths in Bradford frustrating arrests and stoning police cars. How do I know, it was on bodycam cops, caught on film. Countdown had this thread removed, he also took offence at a similar post re cash for crash. I think when people can't accept things as they are, regardless of opinion, then we are on dodgy ground.
I genuinely have no idea what you're on about but (based on a lot of your comments) I can guess what you might have said, so I'm not surprised somebody complained about it and the Mods thought it worthy of a ban. I can guarantee you that it wasn't me. 
hed and called me a 'moron', hey I don't work for channel 5, I didn't shoot the footage. You also took offence re posts about the cost of insurance in Bradford, and indulged in a bit of whataboutery. Are people not allowed to 'have concerns about the scale and type of immigration? Is that what you are saying?. Nothing to see there then I guess in your world.
markcoznottz said:
It's people like yourself who have enabled the far right to take a hold. Your posts on the Bradford thread were illuminating to say the least. The point I made about stoning police cars you actually moaned and bhed and called me a 'moron', hey I don't work for channel 5, I didn't shoot the footage. You also took offence re posts about the cost of insurance in Bradford, and indulged in a bit of whataboutery.
Are people not allowed to 'have concerns about the scale and type of immigration? Is that what you are saying?. Nothing to see there then I guess in your world.
as the moderate right are denied fair voice the far right will welcome them with open arms. The lefts determination that all to the right are far right will become self fulfilling!hed and called me a 'moron', hey I don't work for channel 5, I didn't shoot the footage. You also took offence re posts about the cost of insurance in Bradford, and indulged in a bit of whataboutery. Are people not allowed to 'have concerns about the scale and type of immigration? Is that what you are saying?. Nothing to see there then I guess in your world.
one effect of the new regulations regarding porn that struck me - alongwith a rise in use and consequently knowledge and understanding of the so called dark web, as the current social media providers rip out their own underpinnings with censorship and bannings I wonder if we'll see some sort of a rise in social media platforms that are completely outside any control and influence of "societal standards"?
Teddy Lop said:
as the moderate right are denied fair voice the far right will welcome them with open arms. The lefts determination that all to the right are far right will become self fulfilling!
one effect of the new regulations regarding porn that struck me - alongwith a rise in use and consequently knowledge and understanding of the so called dark web, as the current social media providers rip out their own underpinnings with censorship and bannings I wonder if we'll see some sort of a rise in social media platforms that are completely outside any control and influence of "societal standards"?
There was Gab who tried that and their hosting provider pulled them after a mass shooting where the shooter had used the platform.one effect of the new regulations regarding porn that struck me - alongwith a rise in use and consequently knowledge and understanding of the so called dark web, as the current social media providers rip out their own underpinnings with censorship and bannings I wonder if we'll see some sort of a rise in social media platforms that are completely outside any control and influence of "societal standards"?
Ridgemont said:
Catat10 said:
Can you provide an example of a far-left social media page/group that spreads hate, attacks or calls for the exclusion of others on the basis of who they are?
- cough*momentum*cough*
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: There was Gab who tried that and their hosting provider pulled them after a mass shooting where the shooter had used the platform.
could you have a host-less social media platform, where every user stores the data and it continously auto updates itself a bit like bitcoin?markcoznottz said:
It's people like yourself who have enabled the far right to take a hold. Your posts on the Bradford thread were illuminating to say the least. The point I made about stoning police cars you actually moaned and bhed and called me a 'moron', hey I don't work for channel 5, I didn't shoot the footage. You also took offence re posts about the cost of insurance in Bradford, and indulged in a bit of whataboutery.
The reason there is whataboutery is because posts like yours don't really care about lawlessness UNLESS it supports your case about immigrants.hed and called me a 'moron', hey I don't work for channel 5, I didn't shoot the footage. You also took offence re posts about the cost of insurance in Bradford, and indulged in a bit of whataboutery. To take your point about pilice cars being stoned; there are countless examples of Police, Fire Brigade, Ambulance, even buses being stoned when they venture onto certain estates in all parts of the Country. But when it happens in Bradford it somehow becomes special because, you know, "oooh...Immigrants". I'm not sure if you read my other comments on that thread. What i said was that Bradford has a high proportion of scumbags. Personally I think it would benefit from the liberal use of water cannon, tasers, and the use of snipers taking out the ringleaders, and I know that a lot of residents of Bradford would agree with me. However the difference between us is that I don't think it's particularly unique; I can think of various areas across the North with a similar social demographic. I get equally irritated by all of them and I'd be quite happy for the Police to use the same tactics everywhere, regardless of the colour of the offenders.
markcoznottz said:
Are people not allowed to 'have concerns about the scale and type of immigration? Is that what you are saying?. Nothing to see there then I guess in your world.
You're conflating two different things. The yobbery in Bradford has got little do with immigration, other than it's the 3rd generation of immigrants causing it. Immigration from South Asia has been very difficult for the last 10 years. Recent immigration has been mainly from Europe and (I think) China/Australia. By all means talk about immigration - just be aware that it's not mainly brown people entering the Country.Teddy Lop said:
could you have a host-less social media platform, where every user stores the data and it continously auto updates itself a bit like bitcoin?
It's entirely possible and ironically Usenet is perhaps closer to that than much of what we have now.I think you have to ask yourself why you'd need such a thing though?
If you lived in China or somewhere where free speech and human rights abuses are a real and significant concern I kind of get it.
The stuff this thread is about, not quite the same thing is it.
Teddy Lop said:
as the moderate right are denied fair voice the far right will welcome them with open arms. The lefts determination that all to the right are far right will become self fulfilling!
It's not the genuine moderate right that are being welcomed by the far Right. It's those that tried to convince themselves they were moderate and are now feeling marginalised/exposed when they get banned by the the likes of FB etc.
If you have sympathies with people like BNP/EDL/Britain First/For Britain and you think you're moderate right you're kidding yourself.
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: It's entirely possible and ironically Usenet is perhaps closer to that than much of what we have now.
[B]
I think you have to ask yourself why you'd need such a thing though?
[/b]
If you lived in China or somewhere where free speech and human rights abuses are a real and significant concern I kind of get it.
The stuff this thread is about, not quite the same thing is it.
I'm speculating about what may be rather than calling for it per se.[B]
I think you have to ask yourself why you'd need such a thing though?
[/b]
If you lived in China or somewhere where free speech and human rights abuses are a real and significant concern I kind of get it.
The stuff this thread is about, not quite the same thing is it.
Although the advantages of a platform that allows you to discuss anything free of a PR sensitive moderation pandering to a PC agenda should be obvious, of course it'd be problematic too.
Teddy Lop said:
I'm speculating about what may be rather than calling for it per se.
Although the advantages of a platform that allows you to "discuss anything free of a PR sensitive moderation pandering to a PC agenda" should be obvious, of course it'd be problematic too.
The difficulty there is that 99% of the time it comes down to "I want the right to say unpleasant stuff but I don't want any of the responsibilities".Although the advantages of a platform that allows you to "discuss anything free of a PR sensitive moderation pandering to a PC agenda" should be obvious, of course it'd be problematic too.
When you look at the likes of Facebook and Twitter, they have an enormous responsibility and of course, they don't always get it right, but I'd say you've got to be going some to get yourself removed from them because of your views.
Countdown said:
Teddy Lop said:
as the moderate right are denied fair voice the far right will welcome them with open arms. The lefts determination that all to the right are far right will become self fulfilling!
It's not the genuine moderate right that are being welcomed by the far Right. It's those that tried to convince themselves they were moderate and are now feeling marginalised/exposed when they get banned by the the likes of FB etc.
If you have sympathies with people like BNP/EDL/Britain First/For Britain and you think you're moderate right you're kidding yourself.
Teddy Lop said:
but take say brexit, can we agree you can be pro-brexit but only moderately right of centre? It shouldn't need stating, hell you can be pro brexit hard left ffs, but as far as the prescribed correctthink goes you must be hard right. So suddenly you find the only people who aren't castigating you are the groups you mention, and that can't not have an effect.
The “correctthink “ of which you speak is prescribed where and by whom ? Take your Brexit example, I feel quite confident in saying that the significant majority of Remainers do not count the significant majority of Leavers as “far right”.
It’s not a prescription in any way shape or form, it’s an assumption and a fabrication based on opinion and justification.
Brooking10 said:
The “correctthink “ of which you speak is prescribed where and by whom ?
Take your Brexit example, I feel quite confident in saying that the significant majority of Remainers do not count the significant majority of Leavers as “far right”.
It’s not a prescription in any way shape or form, it’s an assumption and a fabrication based on opinion.
brexit is generally consistently portrayed as a hard-right concept though, and plain wrong/irrational rather than an alternative and valid PoV to hold. Take your Brexit example, I feel quite confident in saying that the significant majority of Remainers do not count the significant majority of Leavers as “far right”.
It’s not a prescription in any way shape or form, it’s an assumption and a fabrication based on opinion.
Teddy Lop said:
Brooking10 said:
The “correctthink “ of which you speak is prescribed where and by whom ?
Take your Brexit example, I feel quite confident in saying that the significant majority of Remainers do not count the significant majority of Leavers as “far right”.
It’s not a prescription in any way shape or form, it’s an assumption and a fabrication based on opinion.
brexit is generally consistently portrayed as a hard-right concept though, and plain wrong/irrational rather than an alternative and valid PoV to hold. Take your Brexit example, I feel quite confident in saying that the significant majority of Remainers do not count the significant majority of Leavers as “far right”.
It’s not a prescription in any way shape or form, it’s an assumption and a fabrication based on opinion.
Teddy Lop said:
Brooking10 said:
The “correctthink “ of which you speak is prescribed where and by whom ?
Take your Brexit example, I feel quite confident in saying that the significant majority of Remainers do not count the significant majority of Leavers as “far right”.
It’s not a prescription in any way shape or form, it’s an assumption and a fabrication based on opinion.
brexit is generally consistently portrayed as a hard-right concept though, and plain wrong/irrational rather than an alternative and valid PoV to hold. Take your Brexit example, I feel quite confident in saying that the significant majority of Remainers do not count the significant majority of Leavers as “far right”.
It’s not a prescription in any way shape or form, it’s an assumption and a fabrication based on opinion.
A tiny number of pro Brexit supporters seem to be in favour of it simply because it'll stop immigration, give us back complete control of our laws, let us fly Union & St George's flags every day of the year, everyone will have a bulldog, suit of armour, sword, etc.
They're the Brextremists who are often linked to the far right groups like Britain First, the EDL, Generation Identity, etc.
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