Facebook bans UK far right groups
Discussion
AJL308 said:
FB can ban who it want's quite honestly, it's their platform. It would be nice if they did it even handedly though.
I've always had a big issue with banning people from saying things, even things which are obviously extremely offensive and unpleasant and even things which demonstrate a hatred of something or someone or some group. Banning people from putting their point across doesn't work because it becomes more difficult to challenge them. You end up with like minded people who only talk among themselves which just ends up in a load of mutual reinforcement of those ideas. It also makes it more difficult to keep a check on people people less is publicised so you don't know to challenge it.
The main danger, I feel though, is that by banning them you give them some "special" status that attracts even bigger and more dangerous weirdos than were already associated with them. The conspiraloons will put about the theory that these groups are "right" in what they say so have been banned by the establishment in order to shut them up. The "oxygen of publicity" is what people seek to deny them but miss the fact that pure oxygen will kill you eventually. Letting a tiny number of intolerant bigots spew their crap in the open will just result in the normal people laughing at them, hopefully whist pointing out the fool to all the passers by, who will also laugh. They will overdose on publicity oxygen.
I think you’ve taken a rather large step away from reality in your desperate attempt to make this ‘ban’ seem unfair. Hitler rallies? Oh yeah, that was just people laughing at him. I've always had a big issue with banning people from saying things, even things which are obviously extremely offensive and unpleasant and even things which demonstrate a hatred of something or someone or some group. Banning people from putting their point across doesn't work because it becomes more difficult to challenge them. You end up with like minded people who only talk among themselves which just ends up in a load of mutual reinforcement of those ideas. It also makes it more difficult to keep a check on people people less is publicised so you don't know to challenge it.
The main danger, I feel though, is that by banning them you give them some "special" status that attracts even bigger and more dangerous weirdos than were already associated with them. The conspiraloons will put about the theory that these groups are "right" in what they say so have been banned by the establishment in order to shut them up. The "oxygen of publicity" is what people seek to deny them but miss the fact that pure oxygen will kill you eventually. Letting a tiny number of intolerant bigots spew their crap in the open will just result in the normal people laughing at them, hopefully whist pointing out the fool to all the passers by, who will also laugh. They will overdose on publicity oxygen.
Facebook is responsible for aiding people to spread misinformation and lies (one of the downsides of that great thing called the internet). That it is taking steps to limit certain groups from using its platform is a good thing.
Have another
for suggesting the Labour Party should also be banned from FB. I fear you have been brainwashed.
Roman Rhodes said:
AJL308 said:
FB can ban who it want's quite honestly, it's their platform. It would be nice if they did it even handedly though.
I've always had a big issue with banning people from saying things, even things which are obviously extremely offensive and unpleasant and even things which demonstrate a hatred of something or someone or some group. Banning people from putting their point across doesn't work because it becomes more difficult to challenge them. You end up with like minded people who only talk among themselves which just ends up in a load of mutual reinforcement of those ideas. It also makes it more difficult to keep a check on people people less is publicised so you don't know to challenge it.
The main danger, I feel though, is that by banning them you give them some "special" status that attracts even bigger and more dangerous weirdos than were already associated with them. The conspiraloons will put about the theory that these groups are "right" in what they say so have been banned by the establishment in order to shut them up. The "oxygen of publicity" is what people seek to deny them but miss the fact that pure oxygen will kill you eventually. Letting a tiny number of intolerant bigots spew their crap in the open will just result in the normal people laughing at them, hopefully whist pointing out the fool to all the passers by, who will also laugh. They will overdose on publicity oxygen.
I think you’ve taken a rather large step away from reality in your desperate attempt to make this ‘ban’ seem unfair. Hitler rallies? Oh yeah, that was just people laughing at him. I've always had a big issue with banning people from saying things, even things which are obviously extremely offensive and unpleasant and even things which demonstrate a hatred of something or someone or some group. Banning people from putting their point across doesn't work because it becomes more difficult to challenge them. You end up with like minded people who only talk among themselves which just ends up in a load of mutual reinforcement of those ideas. It also makes it more difficult to keep a check on people people less is publicised so you don't know to challenge it.
The main danger, I feel though, is that by banning them you give them some "special" status that attracts even bigger and more dangerous weirdos than were already associated with them. The conspiraloons will put about the theory that these groups are "right" in what they say so have been banned by the establishment in order to shut them up. The "oxygen of publicity" is what people seek to deny them but miss the fact that pure oxygen will kill you eventually. Letting a tiny number of intolerant bigots spew their crap in the open will just result in the normal people laughing at them, hopefully whist pointing out the fool to all the passers by, who will also laugh. They will overdose on publicity oxygen.
Facebook is responsible for aiding people to spread misinformation and lies (one of the downsides of that great thing called the internet). That it is taking steps to limit certain groups from using its platform is a good thing.
Have another
for suggesting the Labour Party should also be banned from FB. I fear you have been brainwashed.BlackLabel said:
Their club, their rules. Don’t blame them for wanting to rid the place of such groups.
Interesting time to announce this though, perhaps they were hoping it would take the attention away from yet another privacy breach.
https://www.businessinsider.com/facebook-uploaded-...
I'm not sure about the timing but they do seem rather unfortunate don't theyInteresting time to announce this though, perhaps they were hoping it would take the attention away from yet another privacy breach.
https://www.businessinsider.com/facebook-uploaded-...
king Tumps? What a shower of aCan anyone tell me when there as been a time in history where censorship of thought and ideas and forced social conformity as ever been see as a progressive step and actually worked for the greater good?
There seems to be a few arguments for such censorship. The first is their house their rules which I do understand to a point but I hope the people who use this argument hold to their principals. If the social consensus starts to change and we end up with a more right wing media and social network like what you perhaps see in places like Russia, eastern europe, China and they start to shut down other types of voices. Then I hope they will stand by their argument "Their house their rules".
Another argument seems to be its done to stop unstable individuals from basically getting ideas and doing something stupid. Its like this idea if we remove self harm and suicide pages from social media people wouldn't do it. I just don't believe this to be true and would be interested in seeing any evidence and statistics showing this. I just believe we will always have unstable individuals that will do stupid things and we should be careful not to limit the freedoms of the many in a wishful short sighted drive which in many cases turns out to achieve or prevent nothing.
The main danger I see is not the few nutjobs doing something stupid it's when the general public start to fall for a sort of social conformity of a illogical ideology be that right or left. And all I can see is a drive towards the left by the people incontrol, its them who are silencing and shutting down argument and discussion.
I think the issue is there seems to be no real fear of a drive towards the left even though it's been just as damaging and dangerous as anything the right as ever done, even more so. Its because there seems to be very little teaching of it's dangers in the education system. In the way we see with the far right. And with much of the lefts ideas they are disguised under the veneer of good intentions which mean they are hard to argue against with being labeled hatful.
There seems to be a few arguments for such censorship. The first is their house their rules which I do understand to a point but I hope the people who use this argument hold to their principals. If the social consensus starts to change and we end up with a more right wing media and social network like what you perhaps see in places like Russia, eastern europe, China and they start to shut down other types of voices. Then I hope they will stand by their argument "Their house their rules".
Another argument seems to be its done to stop unstable individuals from basically getting ideas and doing something stupid. Its like this idea if we remove self harm and suicide pages from social media people wouldn't do it. I just don't believe this to be true and would be interested in seeing any evidence and statistics showing this. I just believe we will always have unstable individuals that will do stupid things and we should be careful not to limit the freedoms of the many in a wishful short sighted drive which in many cases turns out to achieve or prevent nothing.
The main danger I see is not the few nutjobs doing something stupid it's when the general public start to fall for a sort of social conformity of a illogical ideology be that right or left. And all I can see is a drive towards the left by the people incontrol, its them who are silencing and shutting down argument and discussion.
I think the issue is there seems to be no real fear of a drive towards the left even though it's been just as damaging and dangerous as anything the right as ever done, even more so. Its because there seems to be very little teaching of it's dangers in the education system. In the way we see with the far right. And with much of the lefts ideas they are disguised under the veneer of good intentions which mean they are hard to argue against with being labeled hatful.
Edited by Not-The-Messiah on Friday 19th April 09:02
Countdown said:
El stovey said:
jfire said:
Funny people the hate filled Lefties.
Odd that they haven’t actually formed hate groups though? Are the far right being penalised for being better organised or something?
Catat10 said:
Can you provide an example of a far-left social media page/group that spreads hate, attacks or calls for the exclusion of others on the basis of who they are?
As an aside surely FB can let who the hell they like use their platform. Good riddance to the losers they've kicked off so far.
Edited by anonymous-user on Friday 19th April 04:24
Not-The-Messiah said:
Can anyone tell me when there as been a time in history where censorship of thought and ideas and forced social conformity as ever been see as progressive step and actually worked for the greater good?
There seems to be a few arguments for such censorship we are seeing. The first is their house their rules which I do understand to a point but I hope the people who use this argument hold to their principals. If the social consensus starts to change and we end up with a more right wing media and social network like what you perhaps see in places like Russia, eastern europe, China and they start to shut down other types of voices. Then I hope they will stand by their argument "Their house their rules".
Another argument seems to be its done to stop unstable individuals from basically getting ideas and doing something stupid. Its like this idea if we remove self harm and suicide pages from social media people wouldn't do it. I just don't believe this to be true and would be interested in seeing any evidence and statistics showing this. I just believe we will always have unstable individuals that will do stupid things and we should be careful not to limit the freedoms of the many in a wishful drive which in many cases turns out to achieve or prevent nothing.
The main danger I see is not the few nutjobs doing something stupid it's when the general public start to fall for a sort of social conformity of a illogical ideology be that right or left. And all I can see is a drive towards the left by the people incontrol, its them who are silencing and shutting down argument and discussion.
I think the issue is there seems to no real fear of a drive towards the left even though it's been just as damaging and dangerous as anything the right as ever done even more so. Its because there seems to be very little teaching of it dangers in the education system with the way we see with the far right. And with much of the lefts ideas they are disguised under the veneer of good intentions which mean they are hard to argue against with being labeled hatful.
well put. The pertinent bit is:There seems to be a few arguments for such censorship we are seeing. The first is their house their rules which I do understand to a point but I hope the people who use this argument hold to their principals. If the social consensus starts to change and we end up with a more right wing media and social network like what you perhaps see in places like Russia, eastern europe, China and they start to shut down other types of voices. Then I hope they will stand by their argument "Their house their rules".
Another argument seems to be its done to stop unstable individuals from basically getting ideas and doing something stupid. Its like this idea if we remove self harm and suicide pages from social media people wouldn't do it. I just don't believe this to be true and would be interested in seeing any evidence and statistics showing this. I just believe we will always have unstable individuals that will do stupid things and we should be careful not to limit the freedoms of the many in a wishful drive which in many cases turns out to achieve or prevent nothing.
The main danger I see is not the few nutjobs doing something stupid it's when the general public start to fall for a sort of social conformity of a illogical ideology be that right or left. And all I can see is a drive towards the left by the people incontrol, its them who are silencing and shutting down argument and discussion.
I think the issue is there seems to no real fear of a drive towards the left even though it's been just as damaging and dangerous as anything the right as ever done even more so. Its because there seems to be very little teaching of it dangers in the education system with the way we see with the far right. And with much of the lefts ideas they are disguised under the veneer of good intentions which mean they are hard to argue against with being labeled hatful.
I think the issue is there seems to no real fear of a drive towards the left even though it's been just as damaging and dangerous as anything the right as ever done even more so. Its because there seems to be very little teaching of it dangers in the education system with the way we see with the far right. And with much of the lefts ideas they are disguised under the veneer of good intentions which mean they are hard to argue against with being labeled hateful.
the below sums up my thoughts on the matter...
It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.”
Not-The-Messiah said:
Countdown said:
Have they ever labelled anybody as fascists who aren’t far right?
Define far right, Nigel farage as been labelled a fascist on occasions.
You’re just upset because the organisations banned are all right wing and you think it’s an attack on your politics due to your messed up polarised world view.
Pesty said:
Rivenink said:
Have there been any incidents where someone subscribing to far-left ideology has embarked on mass-murder?
I'm genuinely ignorant on whether they have as all of the incidents I'm aware of have been attributed to the far-right.
And this is a problem. I'm genuinely ignorant on whether they have as all of the incidents I'm aware of have been attributed to the far-right.
The media and lefties teachers have literally changed history
Communism killed more than the nazis by a huge magnitude. That somebody could not know this is ‘problematic’
[quote]Mr Hennessey categorically denied that he was giving a Nazi salute. Indeed, from the outset he said that he did not even know what one was..... Improbable as that may seem to those of us of an older generation, we do not reject that assertion as untrue. In fact, when cross-examined about this Mr Hennessey displayed a very considerable – one might even say lamentable - degree of ignorance about anything to do with Hitler, Fascism and the Nazi regime......Regrettable though it may be that anyone should be unaware of so important a part of our own and world history, we do not feel we should therefore find he was not telling the truth about this. All we would say (at the risk of sounding patronising) is that Mr Hennessey would be well advised to familiarise himself with events which continue to have great significance to those who live in a free country.
The agenda about how we learnt about the Nazis was set in the 1950s, when classrooms started seeing teachers who had served in the war turn up and tell their pupils all about it. My father recalls learning about Belsen because his history teacher had been one of the first to liberate the camp. The lesson consisted of "and this is what the Germans/ Nazis did", and proceeded to show a bunch of shocked but curious 11 years olds photos of stacked corpses. Accounts like that were repeated across the country, and influenced children who would grow up to be teachers etc.
Its not because of a Leftie agenda that the history of the Khmer Republic is not taught in British schools, or that the Cultural Revolution doesn't figure. I don't want the teaching of history in schools to be reduced to, as you seem to want, a series of accounts of mass murder, selected on the basis of supposed political neutrality. I would prefer children to be taught about the history of Britain, and that includes WW2. You prefer that children learn more about Cambodian or Chinese history. But now because people like you, pushing for a politically correct agenda in schools, are getting concerned that children are learning too much about the Nazis, or not enough about Pol Pot, that we end up with cretins like Hennessey on £50k a week.
Are you also expecting that the Bambuti genocide, the Herero genocide, the Moriori genocides to be also included in the school curriculum? These were genocides that succeeded in reducing the target populations by 40-95%.
Rivenink said:
andy_s said:
Far left is ok then...?
Have there been any incidents where someone subscribing to far-left ideology has embarked on mass-murder?I'm genuinely ignorant on whether they have as all of the incidents I'm aware of have been attributed to the far-right.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Congressional_b...
Stumbled across that in the Thatcher Auction thread, bizarrely.
Not-The-Messiah said:
The main danger I see is not the few nutjobs doing something stupid it's when the general public start to fall for a sort of social conformity of a illogical ideology be that right or left. And all I can see is a drive towards the left by the people incontrol, its them who are silencing and shutting down argument and discussion.
I think the issue is there seems to be no real fear of a drive towards the left even though it's been just as damaging and dangerous as anything the right as ever done, even more so. Its because there seems to be very little teaching of it's dangers in the education system. In the way we see with the far right. And with much of the lefts ideas they are disguised under the veneer of good intentions which mean they are hard to argue against with being labeled hatful.
well put. I think the issue is there seems to be no real fear of a drive towards the left even though it's been just as damaging and dangerous as anything the right as ever done, even more so. Its because there seems to be very little teaching of it's dangers in the education system. In the way we see with the far right. And with much of the lefts ideas they are disguised under the veneer of good intentions which mean they are hard to argue against with being labeled hatful.
I never went to uni, but the vast majority of my social circle did. What strikes me is how the overwhelming majority subscribe to a simplistic and instinctive "right is bad" ideal that's quite alarming. They're mostly intelligent and educated but don't understand the basic concept of the left and the right upholding the system of democracy by opposing each other and both being vital. They instinctively sneer at anything "right" but offer little discourse on why, more just offense on that its even up for discussion. They are, in my opinion, brainwashed.
I wondered if this was something that happened around the time the truth about the Soviets became well known, that the "forces of the left" if you will simply gave up trying to promote socialist ideaology or idealistic communist dream and switched exclusively to attacking and smearing the right. But I've started to read atlas shrugged and my god, the book could have been written yesterday.
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