When Will Estate Agents Fees be Legislated?
Discussion
croyde said:
Still not sure why the buyer (the tenant) has to pay fees. You don't pay fees to buy something from eBay/Autotrader/Joe's Cars. The seller pays the fees as the agent/magazine/advertiser is working for them.
I agree to an extent but you also get a lot of timewasters, eg. I was looking to rent my house through an agent, couple turns up, 1 is stay at home mother and the other self-employed. Did the credit checks and came back as both had CCJ's in the past and then refused to show his books to prove past income. Why as a landlord should I pay for credit checks of people who know they will fail?I think a lot of people assume that landlords are getting away scot-free from agency charges, in London we have to pay 8%+VAT of every monthly payment, I think it was 12%+VAT if it was managed by them too. If a tenant stays a long time that is a decent income for an agency for spending a couple of weeks marketing a property. We get ripped off too and saying market forces drive prices down is not exactly accurate, it is amazing how all the agents have the same pricing structure. What a coincidence.
cb31 said:
I agree to an extent but you also get a lot of timewasters, eg. I was looking to rent my house through an agent, couple turns up, 1 is stay at home mother and the other self-employed. Did the credit checks and came back as both had CCJ's in the past and then refused to show his books to prove past income. Why as a landlord should I pay for credit checks of people who know they will fail?
I think a lot of people assume that landlords are getting away scot-free from agency charges, in London we have to pay 8%+VAT of every monthly payment, I think it was 12%+VAT if it was managed by them too. If a tenant stays a long time that is a decent income for an agency for spending a couple of weeks marketing a property. We get ripped off too and saying market forces drive prices down is not exactly accurate, it is amazing how all the agents have the same pricing structure. What a coincidence.
Yeah so everyone is getting ripped off by useless agents. Thing is, landlords have the power to say to one agent you're a bit useless and/or too expensive, I am using someone else. Tenants do not. I think a lot of people assume that landlords are getting away scot-free from agency charges, in London we have to pay 8%+VAT of every monthly payment, I think it was 12%+VAT if it was managed by them too. If a tenant stays a long time that is a decent income for an agency for spending a couple of weeks marketing a property. We get ripped off too and saying market forces drive prices down is not exactly accurate, it is amazing how all the agents have the same pricing structure. What a coincidence.
Not shocked re your comments about all agents having the same prices. Market ripe for a market investigation. There have been localised estate agency cartels (see https://www.gov.uk/government/news/cma-lifts-the-l... and the CMA certainly has its eye on this sector.
cb31 said:
I agree to an extent but you also get a lot of timewasters, eg. I was looking to rent my house through an agent, couple turns up, 1 is stay at home mother and the other self-employed. Did the credit checks and came back as both had CCJ's in the past and then refused to show his books to prove past income. Why as a landlord should I pay for credit checks of people who know they will fail?
I think a lot of people assume that landlords are getting away scot-free from agency charges, in London we have to pay 8%+VAT of every monthly payment, I think it was 12%+VAT if it was managed by them too. If a tenant stays a long time that is a decent income for an agency for spending a couple of weeks marketing a property. We get ripped off too and saying market forces drive prices down is not exactly accurate, it is amazing how all the agents have the same pricing structure. What a coincidence.
It's an expense of doing business.I think a lot of people assume that landlords are getting away scot-free from agency charges, in London we have to pay 8%+VAT of every monthly payment, I think it was 12%+VAT if it was managed by them too. If a tenant stays a long time that is a decent income for an agency for spending a couple of weeks marketing a property. We get ripped off too and saying market forces drive prices down is not exactly accurate, it is amazing how all the agents have the same pricing structure. What a coincidence.
How much do credit checks actually cost agents? I have seen a little as £3 yet some are currently charging current prospective tenants £120.
Do fees for existing tenancies apply after June 1st? I've got a hefty professional cleaning fee on exit, think the fee for extending the tenancy is quite a lot as well.
Out of interest I had a look at my tenancy agreement, can see the fee ban leading to a massive drop in income for the EA.
I paid well over a thousand pounds in extra charges in my current tenancy which isn't on imo, my previous EA only charged me around £200 all in which I thought was reasonable especially as it was for a large house so took a lot more time to make an inventory.
Out of interest I had a look at my tenancy agreement, can see the fee ban leading to a massive drop in income for the EA.
I paid well over a thousand pounds in extra charges in my current tenancy which isn't on imo, my previous EA only charged me around £200 all in which I thought was reasonable especially as it was for a large house so took a lot more time to make an inventory.
untakenname said:
Do fees for existing tenancies apply after June 1st? I've got a hefty professional cleaning fee on exit, think the fee for extending the tenancy is quite a lot as well.
Out of interest I had a look at my tenancy agreement, can see the fee ban leading to a massive drop in income for the EA.
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|https://thumbsnap.com/JVenmUYj[/url]
I paid well over a thousand pounds in extra charges in my current tenancy which isn't on imo, my previous EA only charged me around £200 all in which I thought was reasonable especially as it was for a large house so took a lot more time to make an inventory.
I'd like to know this too. I put my pen through the check out charges in the lease I recently signed. I still have professional cleaning fee and window cleaning fee in the lease. Which is a kick in the teeth as the flat and windows were filthy when I moved in. Including the carpets, which the agent had agreed to have professionally cleaned before we moved in. Particularly galling as we had also paid £250 in fees. Some agents wanted £450! For what?!Out of interest I had a look at my tenancy agreement, can see the fee ban leading to a massive drop in income for the EA.
[url]
|https://thumbsnap.com/JVenmUYj[/url]I paid well over a thousand pounds in extra charges in my current tenancy which isn't on imo, my previous EA only charged me around £200 all in which I thought was reasonable especially as it was for a large house so took a lot more time to make an inventory.
Send three long emails of complaint to the agents all of which have been ignored. Bandits that add no value (well other than allowing the landlord to avoid tenant complaints), the lot of them.
untakenname said:
Do fees for existing tenancies apply after June 1st? I've got a hefty professional cleaning fee on exit, think the fee for extending the tenancy is quite a lot as well.
Out of interest I had a look at my tenancy agreement, can see the fee ban leading to a massive drop in income for the EA.
I paid well over a thousand pounds in extra charges in my current tenancy which isn't on imo, my previous EA only charged me around £200 all in which I thought was reasonable especially as it was for a large house so took a lot more time to make an inventory.
Out of interest I had a look at my tenancy agreement, can see the fee ban leading to a massive drop in income for the EA.
I paid well over a thousand pounds in extra charges in my current tenancy which isn't on imo, my previous EA only charged me around £200 all in which I thought was reasonable especially as it was for a large house so took a lot more time to make an inventory.
Those fees all seem reasonable given the work involved......
And when the Letting Agent charges the LL instead (as will supposedly happen) the LL definitely won't tell the Agent to shove 'em where the sun doesn't shine....
Integroo said:
I'd like to know this too. I put my pen through the check out charges in the lease I recently signed. I still have professional cleaning fee and window cleaning fee in the lease. Which is a kick in the teeth as the flat and windows were filthy when I moved in. Including the carpets, which the agent had agreed to have professionally cleaned before we moved in. Particularly galling as we had also paid £250 in fees. Some agents wanted £450! For what?!
Send three long emails of complaint to the agents all of which have been ignored. Bandits that add no value (well other than allowing the landlord to avoid tenant complaints), the lot of them.
We are soon to be moving out of our rental back into our own home. Its all ICAB paid for but the checkout stuff is a joke in the list:Send three long emails of complaint to the agents all of which have been ignored. Bandits that add no value (well other than allowing the landlord to avoid tenant complaints), the lot of them.
The property MUST be returned in the condition it was presented in.
You MUST have the property professionally cleaned.
You MUST have the oven professionally cleaned.
All windows MUST be professionally cleaned.
However our check in notes contradict themselves by saying the house has been professionally cleaned but there is mildew (actually it was mold) on the window frames or that the whole place had a layer of dust etc.
When we did the check in I advised that no pro cleaning company worth dealing with would put their name to this place, we had to clean it when we moved in, far from the end of the world (a few hours with a vacum cleaner, a steam cleaner and a some cleaning supplies). But we are expected to have the place professionally cleaned? f
k off! I have already advised the letting agent that we will clean the place before we leave and it will actually be cleaner than when we took it on but I am not paying for diddly squat and I have also advised ICAB they are not to lose any of the deposit for cleaning services etc!geeks said:
We are soon to be moving out of our rental back into our own home. Its all ICAB paid for but the checkout stuff is a joke in the list:
The property MUST be returned in the condition it was presented in.
You MUST have the property professionally cleaned.
You MUST have the oven professionally cleaned.
All windows MUST be professionally cleaned.
However our check in notes contradict themselves by saying the house has been professionally cleaned but there is mildew (actually it was mold) on the window frames or that the whole place had a layer of dust etc.
When we did the check in I advised that no pro cleaning company worth dealing with would put their name to this place, we had to clean it when we moved in, far from the end of the world (a few hours with a vacum cleaner, a steam cleaner and a some cleaning supplies). But we are expected to have the place professionally cleaned? fk off! I have already advised the letting agent that we will clean the place before we leave and it will actually be cleaner than when we took it on but I am not paying for diddly squat and I have also advised ICAB they are not to lose any of the deposit for cleaning services etc!
I know how you feel. The property MUST be returned in the condition it was presented in.
You MUST have the property professionally cleaned.
You MUST have the oven professionally cleaned.
All windows MUST be professionally cleaned.
However our check in notes contradict themselves by saying the house has been professionally cleaned but there is mildew (actually it was mold) on the window frames or that the whole place had a layer of dust etc.
When we did the check in I advised that no pro cleaning company worth dealing with would put their name to this place, we had to clean it when we moved in, far from the end of the world (a few hours with a vacum cleaner, a steam cleaner and a some cleaning supplies). But we are expected to have the place professionally cleaned? f
k off! I have already advised the letting agent that we will clean the place before we leave and it will actually be cleaner than when we took it on but I am not paying for diddly squat and I have also advised ICAB they are not to lose any of the deposit for cleaning services etc!I have put in writing in very clear terms that I will not entertain any discussion as to the cleanliness of the flat on check-out given it was filthy when we moved in. They sent us an invoice for a £240 cleaning fee that they paid - well, not sure what they paid it for as the place was simply not clean! Carpets changed colour when we hoovered them, inside of cupboards filthy, oven filthy, extractor fan filthy, food stains on walls, cobwebs, heavily stained skirting boards, mould on inside of window frames, windows not cleaned internally or externally etc. etc. We spent three straight days cleaning the flat - and haven't actually done the bathrooms yet, though in fairness they are not too bad - but you just know the slightest speck of dust at the end of the tenancy and they will be trying to deduct from the deposit.
Last place I rented, I took loads of pictures to prove that the professional clean certainly wasn't, plus of broken stuff that wasn't on the inventory.
Then I found the only storage cupboard was full of the landlord's building supplies and when I queried this with the agent, I was told they had nowhere else to put it.
I took the side of the newly refurbished bath tub off, and stored it all under there.
It does pee me off renting, especially as it is supposed to be my home, yet you are still treated as an inconvenience.
And what is it with the BTLers fascination with those nasty metal electric hobs. Looks like something out of the 60s yet still available.
Cheap I guess.
And when I moved out, I paid the agent for their professional clean as I just didn't have time to deal with it. They told me at checkout that they were not happy at the level of cleanliness. Bunch of kvnts
I did point that out so that they then recalled the cleaning company. You couldn't make it up.
Oh and before I closed the door for the last time, I checked that every bulb was working.
2 days later they called to say that one bulb wasn't working and that the charge would be £100 to get an electrician out to replace it. I went round to B&Q and paid a couple of quid for a new one and took it to the agent myself.
This is the same agent who showed me the place when I said I'd have it. The moving in date was set for 2 months later but on that date, when I arrived with a van of my stuff and girlfriend in tow, in her car also full, the company said that they were still cleaning it and could I come back in the afternoon.
They had basically cut it so fine betwixt tenancies and the previous tenant had only moved out the day before.
Plus, despite me saying one reason for having the flat was the off street parking, they didn't have a plipper for the gate as they didn't realise I had a car and couldn't I just go to the council for a street permit.
Sorry, rant over. Calm blue ocean, calm blue ocean.....
Then I found the only storage cupboard was full of the landlord's building supplies and when I queried this with the agent, I was told they had nowhere else to put it.
I took the side of the newly refurbished bath tub off, and stored it all under there.
It does pee me off renting, especially as it is supposed to be my home, yet you are still treated as an inconvenience.
And what is it with the BTLers fascination with those nasty metal electric hobs. Looks like something out of the 60s yet still available.
Cheap I guess.
And when I moved out, I paid the agent for their professional clean as I just didn't have time to deal with it. They told me at checkout that they were not happy at the level of cleanliness. Bunch of kvnts
I did point that out so that they then recalled the cleaning company. You couldn't make it up.
Oh and before I closed the door for the last time, I checked that every bulb was working.
2 days later they called to say that one bulb wasn't working and that the charge would be £100 to get an electrician out to replace it. I went round to B&Q and paid a couple of quid for a new one and took it to the agent myself.
This is the same agent who showed me the place when I said I'd have it. The moving in date was set for 2 months later but on that date, when I arrived with a van of my stuff and girlfriend in tow, in her car also full, the company said that they were still cleaning it and could I come back in the afternoon.
They had basically cut it so fine betwixt tenancies and the previous tenant had only moved out the day before.
Plus, despite me saying one reason for having the flat was the off street parking, they didn't have a plipper for the gate as they didn't realise I had a car and couldn't I just go to the council for a street permit.
Sorry, rant over. Calm blue ocean, calm blue ocean.....
Edited by croyde on Wednesday 24th April 14:24
Integroo said:
geeks said:
We are soon to be moving out of our rental back into our own home. Its all ICAB paid for but the checkout stuff is a joke in the list:
The property MUST be returned in the condition it was presented in.
You MUST have the property professionally cleaned.
You MUST have the oven professionally cleaned.
All windows MUST be professionally cleaned.
However our check in notes contradict themselves by saying the house has been professionally cleaned but there is mildew (actually it was mold) on the window frames or that the whole place had a layer of dust etc.
When we did the check in I advised that no pro cleaning company worth dealing with would put their name to this place, we had to clean it when we moved in, far from the end of the world (a few hours with a vacum cleaner, a steam cleaner and a some cleaning supplies). But we are expected to have the place professionally cleaned? fk off! I have already advised the letting agent that we will clean the place before we leave and it will actually be cleaner than when we took it on but I am not paying for diddly squat and I have also advised ICAB they are not to lose any of the deposit for cleaning services etc!
I know how you feel. The property MUST be returned in the condition it was presented in.
You MUST have the property professionally cleaned.
You MUST have the oven professionally cleaned.
All windows MUST be professionally cleaned.
However our check in notes contradict themselves by saying the house has been professionally cleaned but there is mildew (actually it was mold) on the window frames or that the whole place had a layer of dust etc.
When we did the check in I advised that no pro cleaning company worth dealing with would put their name to this place, we had to clean it when we moved in, far from the end of the world (a few hours with a vacum cleaner, a steam cleaner and a some cleaning supplies). But we are expected to have the place professionally cleaned? f
k off! I have already advised the letting agent that we will clean the place before we leave and it will actually be cleaner than when we took it on but I am not paying for diddly squat and I have also advised ICAB they are not to lose any of the deposit for cleaning services etc!I have put in writing in very clear terms that I will not entertain any discussion as to the cleanliness of the flat on check-out given it was filthy when we moved in. They sent us an invoice for a £240 cleaning fee that they paid - well, not sure what they paid it for as the place was simply not clean! Carpets changed colour when we hoovered them, inside of cupboards filthy, oven filthy, extractor fan filthy, food stains on walls, cobwebs, heavily stained skirting boards, mould on inside of window frames, windows not cleaned internally or externally etc. etc. We spent three straight days cleaning the flat - and haven't actually done the bathrooms yet, though in fairness they are not too bad - but you just know the slightest speck of dust at the end of the tenancy and they will be trying to deduct from the deposit.
To the point where we have written to the letting agent asking them if the landlord has an ideas on selling in a couple of years as we would happily save them some EA fees etc.
digimeistter said:
Squiddly Diddly said:
You are providing a service to the landlord, it is therefore the landlord that should pay your fees.
We are also providing a service to the tenant, the job doesn't stop when the tenant moves in you know.Unless the tenant is directly paying you for something they have a choice to use someone else for, you're not providing them a service.
Sway said:
Different EA fees, but on my recent house move it staggered me how much more EAs earn for a sale compared to conveyancers...
Conveyancers just follow a checklist of necessary steps and in my experience these days, might well flag some issue or other up but being so scared of litigation now will then just down tools and offer absolutely no advice on what to do about said issue either way, making sure you make the call and that they absolutely can't be blamed later. Whereas a good estate agent (yes they're rare!) if treated well can do a lot to help "nudge along" a slow or starting-to-have-doubts or unreliable seller with their parts of the process. As a buyer I've twice had help from the estate agent to nudge their seller along a bit.
Mind you the first estate agent I ever dealt with when I first bought a place was Foxtons and I am certain she was complicit in the gazumping that was attempted. They certainly aren't all good.
Davos123 said:
digimeistter said:
Squiddly Diddly said:
You are providing a service to the landlord, it is therefore the landlord that should pay your fees.
We are also providing a service to the tenant, the job doesn't stop when the tenant moves in you know.Unless the tenant is directly paying you for something they have a choice to use someone else for, you're not providing them a service.
digimeistter said:
I feel I do provide a service, the tenant doesn't have to rent from me and I don't have to rent to them. I am paid by the landlord via the tenant. A good agent has happy tenants and landlords. I certainly do. Don't paint us all with the same brush.
What does;“I am paid by the landlord via the tenant.”
mean?
I am not trying to score points, but this is a very odd statement.
Does the landlord pay you out of their income, or does the tenant pay you a fee.
If the latter, given the landlord is your client, how does that actually work legally?
digimeistter said:
I feel I do provide a service, the tenant doesn't have to rent from me and I don't have to rent to them. I am paid by the landlord via the tenant. A good agent has happy tenants and landlords. I certainly do. Don't paint us all with the same brush.
Agents are almost all bandits and add zero value to the tenant, only to the landlord. The tenant does have to rent from you if it wants to rent the flat. The landlord can switch agent when the tenant is in situ and the tenant can do nothing without moving out. The tenant doesn't know if the agent is a bandit or not until after they have moved in, and by that point its too late (though admittedly that is also true of landlords). Fees are opaque and not normally disclosed until after the tenant has viewed and expressed an interest - they are almost never disclosed on the advert.
My new favourite: the third party inventory company also did the professional cleaning. That I paid for as part of my fees. Anyone see the conflict of interest? Flat was filthy but the inventory states it was cleaned to a professional standard. The inventory isn't actually editable - it just gives me an option to agree. Crooks. Much prefer renting directly from landlords, who have an actual incentive to be reasonable and keep tenants happy.
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