Scrapping Age Related Benefits
Discussion
Dixy said:
This thread has migrated from age related benefits to the state pension. The addons were guberments pandering to a vocal and time rich demographic.
So I go back to my question how do you justify free bus travel for someone who has had plenty of time to provide for themselves and yet force a sixteen year old to pay for transport to go somewhere they are mandated to attend.
And I'll refer to my previous answer (which I note very few seem to have picked up on).So I go back to my question how do you justify free bus travel for someone who has had plenty of time to provide for themselves and yet force a sixteen year old to pay for transport to go somewhere they are mandated to attend.
Those with free bus passes tend to vote in elections.
Students (even ones over 18) tend not to, and 16 yr old ones can't.
Derek Smith said:
anonymous said:
[redacted]
That's a good idea, so won't be taken up by the government. There's another plus; as I downsized a few years ago and, as you say, the tax bill was daunting, it will give me something else to moan about if it is brought in.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
With you on both counts. I know we’ve done it but people extending 3 bed semis into 4:5 beds. It removes the next step on the ladder or reduces supply in that area driving up price of that next step. Take my street I’d wager 1/3 have done it and in so doing the others when they sell new buyers will be considering it too
FiF said:
A common problem which moving areas also involves is that people are possibly leaving familiar surroundings, leaving friends, known reliable tradesmen, doctor's practice etc. behind at a time of life they could do without such extra complications.
Even simpler things like wanting to do more gardening in your retirement doesn't work if you move into a postage stamp with a courtyard garden!FiF said:
A common problem which moving areas also involves is that people are possibly leaving familiar surroundings, leaving friends, known reliable tradesmen, doctor's practice etc. behind at a time of life they could do without such extra complications.
Spot on. It’s too easy to say old people downsize - but where? Oh such a distance away... well thanks but no thanks.
Also parents like to host be it Xmas Easter birthdays etc so they can accommodate everyone (and also fund it as they don’t want their kids struggling).
Having parents visit you means essentially you giving the master bedroom and sleeping elsewhere.
Evanivitch said:
Even simpler things like wanting to do more gardening in your retirement doesn't work if you move into a postage stamp with a courtyard garden!
True - they keep forcing more and more density houses. Also to compensate they do not put in additional allotments.
My parents and in laws both Retired have always been garden people. Growing veg flowers etc and it’s actually good exercise plus fresh air.
croyde said:
We should have the Scandinavian system here where we pay high taxes knowing that we'll be OK when old and/or ill.
That would require people to pay 'their fair share' which would mean doing things like making low earners pay income taxI think a blanket % tax rate is my idea of fair
I pay the same income tax amount as 60 minimum wage earners
I am happy to do that but resent being called 'greedy' for not wanting to pay more, by imbeciles who don't work as hard as me or work at all in some cases
Welshbeef said:
anonymous said:
[redacted]
With you on both counts. I know we’ve done it but people extending 3 bed semis into 4:5 beds. It removes the next step on the ladder or reduces supply in that area driving up price of that next step. Take my street I’d wager 1/3 have done it and in so doing the others when they sell new buyers will be considering it too
When we moved in to our three bed semi 13 years or so ago, around 10% of our road had had loft conversions. Now it's over two thirds, including ours.
Why? Because the loft conversion cost us around £40k, and moving would've cost us half that before we'd spent so much as a penny extra for the actual new house.
Preventing people from extending 3 bed semis won't free them up for people to move up the housing ladder. It would just mean people staying put in cramped accommodation because moving to the next step up on the ladder is absurdly expensive one you add in Stamp Duty if you're not in the fortunate position of being a mortgage free pensioner who can downsize and take out equity.
Toaster said:
jakesmith said:
That would require people to pay 'their fair share' which would mean doing things like making low earners pay income tax
I think a blanket % tax rate is my idea of fair
I pay the same income tax amount as 60 minimum wage earners
I am happy to do that but resent being called 'greedy' for not wanting to pay more, by imbeciles who don't work as hard as me or work at all in some cases
Minimum wage is £8.21 per hour if you earn 60 x that then you earn £492 per hour x 40 hours = £19,704 or £1024608 per year, I am not saying your greedy but clearly could afford to pay more. I am also not going to say you are not working hard but neither is the individual that is on minimum wage has two or three jobs and takes home a fraction of your earnings. I think a blanket % tax rate is my idea of fair
I pay the same income tax amount as 60 minimum wage earners
I am happy to do that but resent being called 'greedy' for not wanting to pay more, by imbeciles who don't work as hard as me or work at all in some cases
He's not saying he earns sixty times minimum wage. He's saying he pays the same amount of tax as sixty people on minimum wage.
Kermit power said:
Toaster said:
jakesmith said:
That would require people to pay 'their fair share' which would mean doing things like making low earners pay income tax
I think a blanket % tax rate is my idea of fair
I pay the same income tax amount as 60 minimum wage earners
I am happy to do that but resent being called 'greedy' for not wanting to pay more, by imbeciles who don't work as hard as me or work at all in some cases
Minimum wage is £8.21 per hour if you earn 60 x that then you earn £492 per hour x 40 hours = £19,704 or £1024608 per year, I am not saying your greedy but clearly could afford to pay more. I am also not going to say you are not working hard but neither is the individual that is on minimum wage has two or three jobs and takes home a fraction of your earnings. I think a blanket % tax rate is my idea of fair
I pay the same income tax amount as 60 minimum wage earners
I am happy to do that but resent being called 'greedy' for not wanting to pay more, by imbeciles who don't work as hard as me or work at all in some cases
He's not saying he earns sixty times minimum wage. He's saying he pays the same amount of tax as sixty people on minimum wage.
Riley Blue said:
As a pensioner, I wonder which benefit(s) we would chose if given a personal annual 'goodie' budget of, say, £500. Would it be free bus travel, free TV licence for over 75s, free.... oh bugger, I've forgotten the others.... Being old is crap sometimes.
Roll it into the state pension instead then it’s in the income tax setup. Individuals can choose what they do or don’t want to spend it on.
Removing any of it is political suicide and you’d get claims of taking from the poor yet no tax rises for the rich
Welshbeef said:
Kermit power said:
Toaster said:
jakesmith said:
That would require people to pay 'their fair share' which would mean doing things like making low earners pay income tax
I think a blanket % tax rate is my idea of fair
I pay the same income tax amount as 60 minimum wage earners
I am happy to do that but resent being called 'greedy' for not wanting to pay more, by imbeciles who don't work as hard as me or work at all in some cases
Minimum wage is £8.21 per hour if you earn 60 x that then you earn £492 per hour x 40 hours = £19,704 or £1024608 per year, I am not saying your greedy but clearly could afford to pay more. I am also not going to say you are not working hard but neither is the individual that is on minimum wage has two or three jobs and takes home a fraction of your earnings. I think a blanket % tax rate is my idea of fair
I pay the same income tax amount as 60 minimum wage earners
I am happy to do that but resent being called 'greedy' for not wanting to pay more, by imbeciles who don't work as hard as me or work at all in some cases
He's not saying he earns sixty times minimum wage. He's saying he pays the same amount of tax as sixty people on minimum wage.
To add a little more context, someone on minimum wage would earn £17,077 and pay £914 in income tax.
Someone on £125k, for example would pay £42,496 in tax. That's 46.5 times as much tax for 7.3 times as much earnings.
I full accept that it's fair and reasonable that if you earn more, you pay more in tax, but to that huge extent???
Not sure what perks I actually get as a pensioner that couldn't do without tbh.
Bus pass, used it three times, two of those going to collect a recently bought car, but suppose there will be the time that have handed in my licence. Prescriptions? Well considering that for years I paid for the annual pass only to be informed by a locum pharmacist that one of the items for a borderline hypothyroidism affair entitled me to free scrips offset that. Probably a bit more annoyed that the Mrs, ( a bloody pharmacist!) hadn't mentioned it. Winter heating allowance, considering we whack away full ISA allowances each year and stick about a grand a month in regular 'high interest' (cynical laugh) savings accounts well we could and tbh probably should stick that in the charity box. What else? Not much I can think of. TV licence, nope pay for that, unlike the netflix generation, btw I pay for that too. Memo to self, must not do tax return at last minute again this year, yes it is a lot of dosh isn't it, bloody government, always gets in.
Having said all that, very mindful that I am very fortunate, and that's before any of the Mrs pensions have kicked in. There are others who would sorely miss the things identified above, sorely miss them, need them, and fully justified. The alternative of means testing will almost certainly cost as much as any savings, it always does.
Grump about intergenerational divide and rule tactics over.
Bus pass, used it three times, two of those going to collect a recently bought car, but suppose there will be the time that have handed in my licence. Prescriptions? Well considering that for years I paid for the annual pass only to be informed by a locum pharmacist that one of the items for a borderline hypothyroidism affair entitled me to free scrips offset that. Probably a bit more annoyed that the Mrs, ( a bloody pharmacist!) hadn't mentioned it. Winter heating allowance, considering we whack away full ISA allowances each year and stick about a grand a month in regular 'high interest' (cynical laugh) savings accounts well we could and tbh probably should stick that in the charity box. What else? Not much I can think of. TV licence, nope pay for that, unlike the netflix generation, btw I pay for that too. Memo to self, must not do tax return at last minute again this year, yes it is a lot of dosh isn't it, bloody government, always gets in.
Having said all that, very mindful that I am very fortunate, and that's before any of the Mrs pensions have kicked in. There are others who would sorely miss the things identified above, sorely miss them, need them, and fully justified. The alternative of means testing will almost certainly cost as much as any savings, it always does.
Grump about intergenerational divide and rule tactics over.
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