Scrapping Age Related Benefits
Discussion
Evanivitch said:
That's true, but with mortgages increasingly in the 30-35 year scale, and people waiting until their 30s and later to buy, how many will actually be able to release the equity fully on their home?
How long was your mortgage in the bad old days? 20 years? 15?
My mortgage which I took out in 1978 was 25 years and for about £5K on a £7K property. I was earning £3k per annum at the time. How long was your mortgage in the bad old days? 20 years? 15?
I refurbished and extended the cottage and sold for £15k 4 years later. This was in a tiny village in West Wales.
Next house £27k in Hemel Hempstead in 1982.
I’ve moved numerous times and carried out major refurbishments or complete rebuilds on all my houses.
I’ve been very lucky. A good friend has moved only once and then stayed in same house for 40 years. When they sell they will need all the equity to buy a small retirement home.
I accept us baby boomers have probably had the best of the post war years but our expectations were also much less. As Derek stated, no foreign holidays, 15 days leave per annum, mostly spend doing DIY. We were very content though. We did not have a house phone until 1982.
I do think however that the state pension and additional allowances need a good review as it is unaffordable in its current form.
I believe whist NI contributions work for current spending, people should be forced to have a state pension pot fund which is their own but cannot be taken until an agreed start from age, perhaps 65. Employers and employees should be forced to contribute a portion of the NI into it.
otolith said:
As my dad has pointed out, people who bought before the very high inflation of the 70's had their debt inflated away before their eyes.
Very true. High inflation was a huge plus as wages rose in line with inflation. Unfortunately it is not sustainable at the levels we saw. Mort7 said:
Worth remembering that the mortgage interest rate in the 80s was 13% - 15% too.
Still (sadly) have most of my old building society correspondence from back then. It seemed we'd get a letter every week notifying us of a rise or fall in the mortgage rate.July 1983 - 10.75% - 12%
Sept 85 - 14.75% to 13.5%
I got to around the 16% mark at one stage. I just recall being skint for long periods
Get rid of child benefit first.
A handout for just about everyone.
People really need this if they earn 50k a year?
Once you’ve eradicated the benefits you receive but really don’t need/can’t justify, then you can look enviously at the lot of others.
But of course, keep an eye on the voters.
A handout for just about everyone.
People really need this if they earn 50k a year?
Once you’ve eradicated the benefits you receive but really don’t need/can’t justify, then you can look enviously at the lot of others.
But of course, keep an eye on the voters.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Yes I remember that, just, but our lifestyle was quite simple and expectations much lower.The main issue now is that property prices are disproportionate to earnings. Conversely cars are relatively much cheaper.
If we factory built houses they should be able to be deliver d for less than £500/m2.
Anyway this is an age related benefits thread. In my opinion they should be scrapped over the next 5 years or somand a serious reworking of the state pension conducted for people of future generations. It cannot be fair that we expect the current generation to support us.
Gecko1978 said:
you pay into the system today and in return are looked after later. While costs go up so have wages an thus tax paid. OP's dad is entitled to it and has contributed to society and now society is looking after him. The 17 year old lad on the bus route is able to work and travel (he will find it costly like we all did at the start).
So no lets stop messing about with pensions
Is this not the big problem we are all facing? We have seen rising living costs, but, in the majority of industries, a stagnation of pay, particularly within the last decade or so, but it appears to be a problem which had it's roots in the 80s. Pensions have been linked to the RPI (living costs), but wages have been rising well below the RPI. So no lets stop messing about with pensions
philv said:
Get rid of child benefit first.
A handout for just about everyone.
People really need this if they earn 50k a year?
Once you’ve eradicated the benefits you receive but really don’t need/can’t justify, then you can look enviously at the lot of others.
But of course, keep an eye on the voters.
That's right, pensioners living in £500,000 houses, struggling by on their £40,000 per couple pensions, need help more than young families living in rented accommodation and dealing with the struggle between working and childcare.A handout for just about everyone.
People really need this if they earn 50k a year?
Once you’ve eradicated the benefits you receive but really don’t need/can’t justify, then you can look enviously at the lot of others.
But of course, keep an eye on the voters.
Whilst it is true that inflation eroded your mortgage debt compared to your income, assuming you were in a secure job, inflation also caused other issues. I well remember in our early married yesrs, despite the relatively smaller % of income going on mortgage, during the second half of any year the only way to stretch money to the end of the month was down to serious economies.
It was financially a different world, for example just getting a mortgage, no shopping around, no easy comparison on internet or even in the papers. Essentially the rule was in late 70s and 80, time if our first mortgage, the only way was to save with a building society, say, and save enough and long enough that they would consider you. Then you went along and applied to go on a waiting list. That wasn't a waiting list for a mortgage, no, it was a waiting list, to go onto another waiting list to see the society manager in order to be interviewed to see if, despite you saving and waiting with them, if you would be allowed to go on a third waiting list for permission to make an application, and you got funds when they had the money, and not before.
Despite all these Monty Python professional Yorkshireman type tales, I now have a bus pass but have used it about three times, when going to collect cars that have bought on two of those occasions, so not exactly hard done to. But living rurally can see they are a lifeline for some, especially those who have given up driving.
I don't have a solution, though it does seem another facet to be exploited by various divide and rule factions.
It was financially a different world, for example just getting a mortgage, no shopping around, no easy comparison on internet or even in the papers. Essentially the rule was in late 70s and 80, time if our first mortgage, the only way was to save with a building society, say, and save enough and long enough that they would consider you. Then you went along and applied to go on a waiting list. That wasn't a waiting list for a mortgage, no, it was a waiting list, to go onto another waiting list to see the society manager in order to be interviewed to see if, despite you saving and waiting with them, if you would be allowed to go on a third waiting list for permission to make an application, and you got funds when they had the money, and not before.
Despite all these Monty Python professional Yorkshireman type tales, I now have a bus pass but have used it about three times, when going to collect cars that have bought on two of those occasions, so not exactly hard done to. But living rurally can see they are a lifeline for some, especially those who have given up driving.
I don't have a solution, though it does seem another facet to be exploited by various divide and rule factions.
Nickgnome said:
My mortgage which I took out in 1978 was 25 years and for about £5K on a £7K property. I was earning £3k per annum at the time.
I refurbished and extended the cottage and sold for £15k 4 years later. This was in a tiny village in West Wales.
Next house £27k in Hemel Hempstead in 1982.
I’ve moved numerous times and carried out major refurbishments or complete rebuilds on all my houses.
I’ve been very lucky.
Your first house was very cheap - our first, in mid 1979, was £20K. That was seen as mad, but your average 3 bed semi in the NW was £15KI refurbished and extended the cottage and sold for £15k 4 years later. This was in a tiny village in West Wales.
Next house £27k in Hemel Hempstead in 1982.
I’ve moved numerous times and carried out major refurbishments or complete rebuilds on all my houses.
I’ve been very lucky.
A lot of the increase you've seen, at least in £ terms rather than %, is surely due to being in the SE? My two immediate colleagues who earn the same as me but are SE based and haven't moved for many years, are both in houses now nudging £1M. Mine would be £300K on a good day.
philv said:
What happens to the many that have planned the rest of their lives based on the current setup?
Screw one portion of society to help another?
Which is why I said the current set up should be changed over time. I’ve always believed in the philosophy of standing on or own feet and providing for our own ‘old age’ We have never wanted to be a burden on our children.Screw one portion of society to help another?
This may take 20 years or so to change the system, but expecting the current working populous to fund the retired is just wrong in my opinion.
Tannedbaldhead said:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48046595
Read this article this morning and thought they have a point.
My 81 year old Dad was complaining at how badly the lump sum he derives his income drawdown was performing. So as to maintain its value he has decided not to take any income this year.
I was worried about how he'd manage till he dug out his pension paperwork and showed me his old age, care related and contribution based pensions amounted to £354 per week. That's not a kick in the arse off £18500 a year.
On top of that my Mum receives old age pensions and a teacher's superannuated pension.
They have no mortgage and no dependants.
This being the case why all the free stuff?
Am I going all socialist for thinking age related benifits should be means tested and the savings should be channelled into either in work benifits or increased tax allowance to help much poorer young working families?
We aren't all in the same boat mate. Why not scrapping this big gravy train these Lords etc are on, House of Lords, subsided means, subsided booze, etc etc etc.Read this article this morning and thought they have a point.
My 81 year old Dad was complaining at how badly the lump sum he derives his income drawdown was performing. So as to maintain its value he has decided not to take any income this year.
I was worried about how he'd manage till he dug out his pension paperwork and showed me his old age, care related and contribution based pensions amounted to £354 per week. That's not a kick in the arse off £18500 a year.
On top of that my Mum receives old age pensions and a teacher's superannuated pension.
They have no mortgage and no dependants.
This being the case why all the free stuff?
Am I going all socialist for thinking age related benifits should be means tested and the savings should be channelled into either in work benifits or increased tax allowance to help much poorer young working families?
Edited by Vipers on Thursday 25th April 19:26
Sheepshanks said:
Nickgnome said:
My mortgage which I took out in 1978 was 25 years and for about £5K on a £7K property. I was earning £3k per annum at the time.
I refurbished and extended the cottage and sold for £15k 4 years later. This was in a tiny village in West Wales.
Next house £27k in Hemel Hempstead in 1982.
I’ve moved numerous times and carried out major refurbishments or complete rebuilds on all my houses.
I’ve been very lucky.
Your first house was very cheap - our first, in mid 1979, was £20K. That was seen as mad, but your average 3 bed semi in the NW was £15KI refurbished and extended the cottage and sold for £15k 4 years later. This was in a tiny village in West Wales.
Next house £27k in Hemel Hempstead in 1982.
I’ve moved numerous times and carried out major refurbishments or complete rebuilds on all my houses.
I’ve been very lucky.
A lot of the increase you've seen, at least in £ terms rather than %, is surely due to being in the SE? My two immediate colleagues who earn the same as me but are SE based and haven't moved for many years, are both in houses now nudging £1M. Mine would be £300K on a good day.
As part of another thread on similar subject I looked at the average house price c.f. family income for Sheffield in 1980 vs today. Very little difference, though as someone else pointed out above greater need to have two decent wage earners these days I suspect, though that is just supposition on my part, not looked at the data.
And then she said:
philv said:
Get rid of child benefit first.
A handout for just about everyone.
People really need this if they earn 50k a year?
Once you’ve eradicated the benefits you receive but really don’t need/can’t justify, then you can look enviously at the lot of others.
But of course, keep an eye on the voters.
That's right, pensioners living in £500,000 houses, struggling by on their £40,000 per couple pensions, need help more than young families living in rented accommodation and dealing with the struggle between working and childcare.A handout for just about everyone.
People really need this if they earn 50k a year?
Once you’ve eradicated the benefits you receive but really don’t need/can’t justify, then you can look enviously at the lot of others.
But of course, keep an eye on the voters.
I’m afraid I’m quite brutal on the front end as well and I think, over future years we should freeze and eventually reduce child benefit.
I also believe in a very much higher minimum wage £15/hr or so, compulsory pension contributions a significant reduction in state manipulation, increase substantially the earning threshold for tax and higher tax over a certain amount.
FiF said:
Whilst it is true that inflation eroded your mortgage debt compared to your income, assuming you were in a secure job, inflation also caused other issues. I well remember in our early married yesrs, despite the relatively smaller % of income going on mortgage, during the second half of any year the only way to stretch money to the end of the month was down to serious economies.
It was financially a different world, for example just getting a mortgage, no shopping around, no easy comparison on internet or even in the papers. Essentially the rule was in late 70s and 80, time if our first mortgage, the only way was to save with a building society, say, and save enough and long enough that they would consider you. Then you went along and applied to go on a waiting list. That wasn't a waiting list for a mortgage, no, it was a waiting list, to go onto another waiting list to see the society manager in order to be interviewed to see if, despite you saving and waiting with them, if you would be allowed to go on a third waiting list for permission to make an application, and you got funds when they had the money, and not before.
Despite all these Monty Python professional Yorkshireman type tales, I now have a bus pass but have used it about three times, when going to collect cars that have bought on two of those occasions, so not exactly hard done to. But living rurally can see they are a lifeline for some, especially those who have given up driving.
I don't have a solution, though it does seem another facet to be exploited by various divide and rule factions.
Strange isn’t it. I took out my first mortgage in 1978 age 24. No queue, no list. Second house bought in Hemel Hempstead, house price 3.8 times my earnings. Manager of Halifax met me and offered the mortgage. We met every 6 months after that until I sold my house and rented for a while. Yes I had saved from the age of 16 in the society a small amount each month.It was financially a different world, for example just getting a mortgage, no shopping around, no easy comparison on internet or even in the papers. Essentially the rule was in late 70s and 80, time if our first mortgage, the only way was to save with a building society, say, and save enough and long enough that they would consider you. Then you went along and applied to go on a waiting list. That wasn't a waiting list for a mortgage, no, it was a waiting list, to go onto another waiting list to see the society manager in order to be interviewed to see if, despite you saving and waiting with them, if you would be allowed to go on a third waiting list for permission to make an application, and you got funds when they had the money, and not before.
Despite all these Monty Python professional Yorkshireman type tales, I now have a bus pass but have used it about three times, when going to collect cars that have bought on two of those occasions, so not exactly hard done to. But living rurally can see they are a lifeline for some, especially those who have given up driving.
I don't have a solution, though it does seem another facet to be exploited by various divide and rule factions.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
I would add that public workers payed for their pensions. I think 6% in my Dad’s case. I accept the employer contributed too, much like the private sector. Wages were also under private sector equivalents.
I think the civil service was not a contributory set up.
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