British Steel on the brink of adminstration.
Discussion
gazza285 said:
6 months? S
horpe has turned out over 100,000 tonnes of steel a week,
Rail only? Surely that is total capacity? horpe has turned out over 100,000 tonnes of steel a week, That's a lot of railways.
I would think the rail elements would be much much less than that, closer to 10k to 20k tonnes a month? Otherwise, where is all this rail they are producing going....! !! ? If it is 100k tonnes, that is like selling an HS2 contract every 2 months!?? Seems unlikely to me.
poo at Paul's said:
gazza285 said:
6 months? Shorpe has turned out over 100,000 tonnes of steel a week,
Rail only? Surely that is total capacity? horpe has turned out over 100,000 tonnes of steel a week, That's a lot of railways.
I would think the rail elements would be much much less than that, closer to 10k to 20k tonnes a month? Otherwise, where is all this rail they are producing going....! !! ? If it is 100k tonnes, that is like selling an HS2 contract every 2 months!?? Seems unlikely to me.
Belgium, Netherlands...
poo at Paul's said:
Rail only? Surely that is total capacity?
That's a lot of railways.
I would think the rail elements would be much much less than that, closer to 10k to 20k tonnes a month? Otherwise, where is all this rail they are producing going....! !! ? If it is 100k tonnes, that is like selling an HS2 contract every 2 months!?? Seems unlikely to me.
The two blast furnaces produce 3.1m tonnes of molten metal a year, this is then sent to any of the mills on site, as required. That's a lot of railways.
I would think the rail elements would be much much less than that, closer to 10k to 20k tonnes a month? Otherwise, where is all this rail they are producing going....! !! ? If it is 100k tonnes, that is like selling an HS2 contract every 2 months!?? Seems unlikely to me.
As an insight to the mentality behind the competition - https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-48353...
Obviously it varies but I would say on average they make 7_10000t of rail a month.
Liquid steel output last year was around 2.9 million . That is made up of approx 2.4 million of liquid iron
and the remainder by scrap
Typically a 300t charge in a steel converter vessel is 220-240t of liquid iron,the remainder scrap.
Someone mentioned that the plate mill was mothballed,it was demolished last year with a large part of the roll stands
And drives sold to I think an Indian company
Lindun said:
FourWheelDrift said:
Biker 1 said:
BBC report:
Greg Clark on British Steel liquidation: "We will take every possible step... to ensure jobs are secured," says business secretary, but EU rules forbid government from bailing the company out?
Brexit. No more EU rules.Greg Clark on British Steel liquidation: "We will take every possible step... to ensure jobs are secured," says business secretary, but EU rules forbid government from bailing the company out?
Amazing how many hardcore capitalists are pushing for a nationalised industry here. Corbyn is asking for the same just so your heads can explode.
article said:
If the UK did not agree any special trade arrangements with the EU post-Brexit, the UK would be bound by WTO rules; however, these rules are narrower in scope compared with EU state aid rules.[3]
Under WTO rules, the Dispute Settlement Body of the WTO can impose actions such as the withdrawal of the subsidy or its adverse effects. However, unlike the European Commission’s state aid framework, there is no procedure under which subsidies or other forms of state support are notified and approved by the WTO.
Instead, the implementation of the rules relies on ex post dispute settlements without any retrospective recovery of unlawful aid. Under the WTO regime, only member states are responsible for enforcement—private parties are not able to take action against measures that harm them.[4] This scenario could lead to new local legislation for implementing state aid rules within the UK.
Brexit without any free trade agreement could in principle allow for higher levels of state funding in the UK. For example, the UK government could intervene and provide state support to assist the Port Talbot steelworks without being constrained by EU rules.[5]
https://www.oxera.com/agenda/brexit-implications-for-state-aid-rules/Under WTO rules, the Dispute Settlement Body of the WTO can impose actions such as the withdrawal of the subsidy or its adverse effects. However, unlike the European Commission’s state aid framework, there is no procedure under which subsidies or other forms of state support are notified and approved by the WTO.
Instead, the implementation of the rules relies on ex post dispute settlements without any retrospective recovery of unlawful aid. Under the WTO regime, only member states are responsible for enforcement—private parties are not able to take action against measures that harm them.[4] This scenario could lead to new local legislation for implementing state aid rules within the UK.
Brexit without any free trade agreement could in principle allow for higher levels of state funding in the UK. For example, the UK government could intervene and provide state support to assist the Port Talbot steelworks without being constrained by EU rules.[5]
amusingduck said:
What, specifically, is the problem with WTO rules?
1. tariffs2. even costlier non-tariff barriers
3.border control
4.lots of services simply not included
5.enforcement issues
6. still left needing trade deals
7.eu trade cratered - just like whats happening to a lot of companies in the UK right now
kurt535 said:
amusingduck said:
What, specifically, is the problem with WTO rules?
1. tariffs2. even costlier non-tariff barriers
3.border control
4.lots of services simply not included
5.enforcement issues
6. still left needing trade deals
7.eu trade cratered - just like whats happening to a lot of companies in the UK right now
If trading with the EU from outside, IE on WTO terms, is so difficult, that's an argument for being outside the barrier rather than inside it.
saaby93 said:
amusingduck said:
kurt535 said:
horpe plant; if the plant goes most of them go too; for every job in the plant there's maybe 10+ jobs outside. That's an economic carpet bombing raid.Edited by hidetheelephants on Friday 24th May 23:15
According to Sky news this morning the loan is required to pay for carbon credits and environmental levies. I guarantee you the Chinese don't pay them, Please explain to, how the Chinese is fair competition and how in a world scale simple shifting the environmental issues to China help any one. Living in Asia it worries me that the environmental concerns are creating a market that no European country will be able to compete in, I was also surprised this morning when Sky News stated that a major source of Electricity in Germany was Coal, how do the UK expect to compete if that is true.
Quality wise I've seen serious issues around Chines steel, including de-lamination and corrosion.
Quality wise I've seen serious issues around Chines steel, including de-lamination and corrosion.
The place I used to work bought in low grade steel chancing they would find few defects, I saw a huge slab scrapped due to inclusions and voids after our NDT inspectors gave it a once over with ultrasonic equipment, I also saw numerous parts scrapped during machining due to defects in the metal.
I'd wager this steel was sourced from China, money not quality talks.
I'd wager this steel was sourced from China, money not quality talks.
A tube and pipe package deal with a distributor was lost to a Chinese mill. By chance 
one of our sales bods was in the distributor when the container was opened. Instead of everything bundled up according to the order items with proper strapping and protective wrapping around the tube bundle, everything had just been slung in a piece at a time. Heavy thick wall items on top of thin wall supposedly precision tubes. Surface scratches and gouged as stuff had been slid in over the stuff already loaded. That's without dealing with out of specification stuff and technical quality issues, chemistry, tolerances, defects, but it was cheap.
one of our sales bods was in the distributor when the container was opened. Instead of everything bundled up according to the order items with proper strapping and protective wrapping around the tube bundle, everything had just been slung in a piece at a time. Heavy thick wall items on top of thin wall supposedly precision tubes. Surface scratches and gouged as stuff had been slid in over the stuff already loaded. That's without dealing with out of specification stuff and technical quality issues, chemistry, tolerances, defects, but it was cheap.Berw said:
According to Sky news this morning the loan is required to pay for carbon credits and environmental levies. I guarantee you the Chinese don't pay them, Please explain to, how the Chinese is fair competition and how in a world scale simple shifting the environmental issues to China help any one. Living in Asia it worries me that the environmental concerns are creating a market that no European country will be able to compete in, I was also surprised this morning when Sky News stated that a major source of Electricity in Germany was Coal, how do the UK expect to compete if that is true.
Quality wise I've seen serious issues around Chines steel, including de-lamination and corrosion.
i would say that is exactly what certain quarters are aiming for. i can remember a company i worked for losing a contract for faucet valves to a chinese company. having had a look at some of the product that chinese company produced i knew there would be problems. they were basically making a component that met none of the technical specs generally expected in the industry. the only thing they got correct was the majority of the key dimensions. things like density didn't appear to matter to them.Quality wise I've seen serious issues around Chines steel, including de-lamination and corrosion.
when i asked our soon to be ex customer how they were going to cope with lots of returns of leaking assemblies, the reply was that particular faucet valve pair went into assemblies destined for developing countries where constantly dripping taps and showers wouldn't be considered a problem !
Lindun said:
Well if ever there was a more compelling argument for nationalisation of an industry and proof that British unionised industries were perfect, then these anecdotes prove it.
i personally believe certain key sectors should be under national control. the fact we usually make a pigs ear of that is not an argument for not doing it at all, imo. wc98 said:
i would say that is exactly what certain quarters are aiming for. i can remember a company i worked for losing a contract for faucet valves to a chinese company. having had a look at some of the product that chinese company produced i knew there would be problems. they were basically making a component that met none of the technical specs generally expected in the industry. the only thing they got correct was the majority of the key dimensions. things like density didn't appear to matter to them.
when i asked our soon to be ex customer how they were going to cope with lots of returns of leaking assemblies, the reply was that particular faucet valve pair went into assemblies destined for developing countries where constantly dripping taps and showers wouldn't be considered a problem !
What you’re describing is a business approach that would be applauded on here. It seems that because it’s a British company that’s failing though that somehow it’s unfair. Capitalism breeds competition and ruthlessness. If you can save a few quid and make a bit more profit by cutting a few corners, then that’s all fair game normally on here. The idea that standards aren’t being met is quite frankly both hilarious and equally bizarre. Most on here want out of the EU and their “standards” so we can produce lower quality product and / or struggle to meet loads of countries individual standards separately. when i asked our soon to be ex customer how they were going to cope with lots of returns of leaking assemblies, the reply was that particular faucet valve pair went into assemblies destined for developing countries where constantly dripping taps and showers wouldn't be considered a problem !
I’m struggling with the hypocrisy around nationalisation.
Lindun said:
Most on here want out of the EU and their “standards” so we can produce lower quality product and / or struggle to meet loads of countries individual standards separately.
I’m struggling with the hypocrisy around nationalisation.
We will have to 'struggle' (?) to meet EU standards when selling to the EU, US standards when selling to the US, Brazilian standards when selling to Brazil etc etc. Just as we do now.I’m struggling with the hypocrisy around nationalisation.
Dr Jekyll said:
We will have to 'struggle' (?) to meet EU standards when selling to the EU, US standards when selling to the US, Brazilian standards when selling to Brazil etc etc. Just as we do now.
For clarity, I meant struggling in the sense of having to agree to meet their standards as part of a standalone agreement per country, rather than as a catch all agreement negotiated by the EU. Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff