Gay couple beaten for refusing to kiss for a mob
Discussion
Escy said:
I'm not claiming it, I'm speculating. We know she approached them from the report. Why would she do that do you think?
I wouldn’t speculate personally except to observe that the vagueness of the report raises flags that important facts are indeed missing. The hysterical reaction to your posts from a few posters to be expected, seeing their posting history they have form for it. They fly off the handle at the slightest questioning of the report. In short, you don’t really need to justify yourself to them. They get off on being outraged- it's their shtick.
shakotan said:
Shakermaker said:
Escapegoat said:
shakotan said:
Technically this isn't a 'homophobic' attack.
Eh? What do you think the "homo" bit means?
PH never ceases to amaze.It is possible the CCTV was not working on the bus I guess... hence no stills. For now.
That said, having interviewed 100s of people over the years there are some common phrases that people use who I find in my experience are trying to deflect.
The first red flag being a big long preamble about where they had been, where they were going, how they got there etc rather than just saying "we were on a bus A123" or I was coming home from work etc. Then a big epilogue again going off at a tangent. At least 60% of the post has nothing to do with the incident.
Then using words such as, "I don't remember" repeatedly for something you would obviously remember. 3 times she says that in her short face book post.
Then, in addition "the next thing I know". Said that twice. Someone sat at the back of the bus reading the paper would say "next thing I know" but not someone right in the middle of the incident.
The statement "On an impulse, I went over there only to find her face bleeding and three of them beating her up." gets my spidey senses going. So you just gave a description of the incident and how you were joking with these 4 men to try and get them to go away then "on impulse" out of the blue she "went over" to find her friend bleeding and her being assaulted by these 4 men who 2 seconds ago had come over to you and you were joking with.
Last time I checked the top deck of a bus is quite a small space....
Still, no doubt they both had a good smack in the face at some point.
That said, having interviewed 100s of people over the years there are some common phrases that people use who I find in my experience are trying to deflect.
The first red flag being a big long preamble about where they had been, where they were going, how they got there etc rather than just saying "we were on a bus A123" or I was coming home from work etc. Then a big epilogue again going off at a tangent. At least 60% of the post has nothing to do with the incident.
Then using words such as, "I don't remember" repeatedly for something you would obviously remember. 3 times she says that in her short face book post.
Then, in addition "the next thing I know". Said that twice. Someone sat at the back of the bus reading the paper would say "next thing I know" but not someone right in the middle of the incident.
The statement "On an impulse, I went over there only to find her face bleeding and three of them beating her up." gets my spidey senses going. So you just gave a description of the incident and how you were joking with these 4 men to try and get them to go away then "on impulse" out of the blue she "went over" to find her friend bleeding and her being assaulted by these 4 men who 2 seconds ago had come over to you and you were joking with.
Last time I checked the top deck of a bus is quite a small space....
Still, no doubt they both had a good smack in the face at some point.
Supercilious Sid said:
I wouldn’t speculate personally except to observe that the vagueness of the report raises flags that important facts are indeed missing.
The hysterical reaction to your posts from a few posters to be expected, seeing their posting history they have form for it. They fly off the handle at the slightest questioning of the report. In short, you don’t really need to justify yourself to them. They get off on being outraged- it's their shtick.
Have to say Sid your username and posting style are the gift that keeps on giving as regards top notch self awareness The hysterical reaction to your posts from a few posters to be expected, seeing their posting history they have form for it. They fly off the handle at the slightest questioning of the report. In short, you don’t really need to justify yourself to them. They get off on being outraged- it's their shtick.
bluesandtwos said:
It is possible the CCTV was not working on the bus I guess... hence no stills. For now.
That said, having interviewed 100s of people over the years there are some common phrases that people use who I find in my experience are trying to deflect.
The first red flag being a big long preamble about where they had been, where they were going, how they got there etc rather than just saying "we were on a bus A123" or I was coming home from work etc. Then a big epilogue again going off at a tangent. At least 60% of the post has nothing to do with the incident.
Then using words such as, "I don't remember" repeatedly for something you would obviously remember. 3 times she says that in her short face book post.
Then, in addition "the next thing I know". Said that twice. Someone sat at the back of the bus reading the paper would say "next thing I know" but not someone right in the middle of the incident.
The statement "On an impulse, I went over there only to find her face bleeding and three of them beating her up." gets my spidey senses going. So you just gave a description of the incident and how you were joking with these 4 men to try and get them to go away then "on impulse" out of the blue she "went over" to find her friend bleeding and her being assaulted by these 4 men who 2 seconds ago had come over to you and you were joking with.
Last time I checked the top deck of a bus is quite a small space....
Still, no doubt they both had a good smack in the face at some point.
You do know that the lady in question is not a native English speaker. That said, having interviewed 100s of people over the years there are some common phrases that people use who I find in my experience are trying to deflect.
The first red flag being a big long preamble about where they had been, where they were going, how they got there etc rather than just saying "we were on a bus A123" or I was coming home from work etc. Then a big epilogue again going off at a tangent. At least 60% of the post has nothing to do with the incident.
Then using words such as, "I don't remember" repeatedly for something you would obviously remember. 3 times she says that in her short face book post.
Then, in addition "the next thing I know". Said that twice. Someone sat at the back of the bus reading the paper would say "next thing I know" but not someone right in the middle of the incident.
The statement "On an impulse, I went over there only to find her face bleeding and three of them beating her up." gets my spidey senses going. So you just gave a description of the incident and how you were joking with these 4 men to try and get them to go away then "on impulse" out of the blue she "went over" to find her friend bleeding and her being assaulted by these 4 men who 2 seconds ago had come over to you and you were joking with.
Last time I checked the top deck of a bus is quite a small space....
Still, no doubt they both had a good smack in the face at some point.
shakotan said:
Shakermaker said:
Escapegoat said:
shakotan said:
Technically this isn't a 'homophobic' attack.
Eh? What do you think the "homo" bit means?otolith said:
Jesus, PH covers itself in glory again.
As for the "not homophobia because getting off on lesbians", yeah, and I guess there's no such thing as a misogynistic rapist.
Heads. Wobble.
I think it's a fair point to be honest. Their sexuality was obvious a catalyst but this seems to be more about objectifying these women in a sexualised way.As for the "not homophobia because getting off on lesbians", yeah, and I guess there's no such thing as a misogynistic rapist.
Heads. Wobble.
A better analogy might be someone who had a real thing for black women stalking black women - race is a factor there but you wouldn't say that the stalker was racist.
I don't think observing that this isn't an homophobic attack makes the situation any less serious.
gregs656 said:
otolith said:
Jesus, PH covers itself in glory again.
As for the "not homophobia because getting off on lesbians", yeah, and I guess there's no such thing as a misogynistic rapist.
Heads. Wobble.
I think it's a fair point to be honest. Their sexuality was obvious a catalyst but this seems to be more about objectifying these women in a sexualised way.As for the "not homophobia because getting off on lesbians", yeah, and I guess there's no such thing as a misogynistic rapist.
Heads. Wobble.
A better analogy might be someone who had a real thing for black women stalking black women - race is a factor there but you wouldn't say that the stalker was racist.
I don't think observing that this isn't an homophobic attack makes the situation any less serious.
gregs656 said:
I think it's a fair point to be honest. Their sexuality was obvious a catalyst but this seems to be more about objectifying these women in a sexualised way.
A better analogy might be someone who had a real thing for black women stalking black women - race is a factor there but you wouldn't say that the stalker was racist.
I don't think observing that this isn't an homophobic attack makes the situation any less serious.
ExactlyA better analogy might be someone who had a real thing for black women stalking black women - race is a factor there but you wouldn't say that the stalker was racist.
I don't think observing that this isn't an homophobic attack makes the situation any less serious.
Couple of girls I knew used to pretend they were lesbians on a night out sometimes and often had guys trying to get them to make out. Including pressing their faces together.
Guys find pretty girls making out hot, doesn't mean they are homophobic.
bluesandtwos said:
It is possible the CCTV was not working on the bus I guess... hence no stills. For now.
That said, having interviewed 100s of people over the years there are some common phrases that people use who I find in my experience are trying to deflect.
The first red flag being a big long preamble about where they had been, where they were going, how they got there etc rather than just saying "we were on a bus A123" or I was coming home from work etc. Then a big epilogue again going off at a tangent. At least 60% of the post has nothing to do with the incident.
Then using words such as, "I don't remember" repeatedly for something you would obviously remember. 3 times she says that in her short face book post.
Then, in addition "the next thing I know". Said that twice. Someone sat at the back of the bus reading the paper would say "next thing I know" but not someone right in the middle of the incident.
The statement "On an impulse, I went over there only to find her face bleeding and three of them beating her up." gets my spidey senses going. So you just gave a description of the incident and how you were joking with these 4 men to try and get them to go away then "on impulse" out of the blue she "went over" to find her friend bleeding and her being assaulted by these 4 men who 2 seconds ago had come over to you and you were joking with.
Last time I checked the top deck of a bus is quite a small space....
Still, no doubt they both had a good smack in the face at some point.
A - accept nothing That said, having interviewed 100s of people over the years there are some common phrases that people use who I find in my experience are trying to deflect.
The first red flag being a big long preamble about where they had been, where they were going, how they got there etc rather than just saying "we were on a bus A123" or I was coming home from work etc. Then a big epilogue again going off at a tangent. At least 60% of the post has nothing to do with the incident.
Then using words such as, "I don't remember" repeatedly for something you would obviously remember. 3 times she says that in her short face book post.
Then, in addition "the next thing I know". Said that twice. Someone sat at the back of the bus reading the paper would say "next thing I know" but not someone right in the middle of the incident.
The statement "On an impulse, I went over there only to find her face bleeding and three of them beating her up." gets my spidey senses going. So you just gave a description of the incident and how you were joking with these 4 men to try and get them to go away then "on impulse" out of the blue she "went over" to find her friend bleeding and her being assaulted by these 4 men who 2 seconds ago had come over to you and you were joking with.
Last time I checked the top deck of a bus is quite a small space....
Still, no doubt they both had a good smack in the face at some point.
B- believe no one
C-challenge everything
Couple of points. it is probable that the trigger for the attack was that they were clearly a gay couple and not two girls randomly discussing shoes, in which case they may have been left alone.
There are gaps in the story, but as someone upthread says, she is not a native English speaker and it is from her FB page. What she told the police may be very different.
We on PH don't know.
JagLover said:
That may well be the case, and it seems like she had been severely provoked, but regardless you don't hit women.
why not? If it's ok to hit then these days it should be ok to hit anyone - anything else is just sexist.That aside if the situation happened as reported (and at this moment there is no reason to doubt) then it's f
king disgraceful and these animals need to be caught and punishedirocfan said:
JagLover said:
That may well be the case, and it seems like she had been severely provoked, but regardless you don't hit women.
why not? If it's ok to hit then these days it should be ok to hit anyone - anything else is just sexist.biggbn said:
OK, you got me.. Explain?
I'm going to take another swing at this as I hadn't thought about it before and it's kind of interesting.There is a difference between being targeted because someone really likes something about you and because they don't.
When people (mostly women I suppose) are targeted for their looks, provocative behavior etc - the kind of stuff that some people use to victim blame 'if they hadn't been wearing that short skirt then...', 'if they hadn't been drinking and dancing all night with that guy he wouldn't have...'
Those things are commonly seen to be sexual assaults, and like with my previous example if the attacker and the victim are different races I don't think we would say it was racially motivated, or that the attacker was racist.
So it is not obvious to me that if this all played out as claimed and these guys were pressuring these women to perform sexual acts with each other, and attacking them when they didn't comply, that because the victims sexuality was a catalyst makes it inherently homophobic.
JagLover said:
irocfan said:
JagLover said:
That may well be the case, and it seems like she had been severely provoked, but regardless you don't hit women.
why not? If it's ok to hit then these days it should be ok to hit anyone - anything else is just sexist.Real men don't force women to perform in public against their will and then batter them when they refuse. A real man would stand up and challenge the knuckle dragging, misogynistic, homophobic thugs.
Some men will disagree though and I think we all know what kind of man would disagree with the above.
bluesandtwos said:
It is possible the CCTV was not working on the bus I guess... hence no stills. For now.
That said, having interviewed 100s of people over the years there are some common phrases that people use who I find in my experience are trying to deflect.
The first red flag being a big long preamble about where they had been, where they were going, how they got there etc rather than just saying "we were on a bus A123" or I was coming home from work etc. Then a big epilogue again going off at a tangent. At least 60% of the post has nothing to do with the incident.
That's interesting, I've found these tales often start with 'I was just minding my own business when...……..' That said, having interviewed 100s of people over the years there are some common phrases that people use who I find in my experience are trying to deflect.
The first red flag being a big long preamble about where they had been, where they were going, how they got there etc rather than just saying "we were on a bus A123" or I was coming home from work etc. Then a big epilogue again going off at a tangent. At least 60% of the post has nothing to do with the incident.
Dangerous occupation apparently, minding your own business. Although usually code for either 'I don't want to tell anyone what I was doing', or 'I was so drunk/stoned/lost in a daydream I didn't notice what was going on until I'd blocked both carriageways and caused jams across three counties.'
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