Gulf of Oman incidents

[psgcarey]

If you want hypocrisy don't forget the Iran-Contra affair when America sold weapons to Israel, to then sell on to Iran, to get round an arms embargo.

America and Israel arming Iran

[Gadgetmac]

psgcarey said:

Gadgetmac said:

Territorially the Straits are claimed by Spain, Morocco and the UK. You may have passage through them but you cannot commit a crime within them.

Unless your geography is so tragically bad you think one, or both, of Syria and Iran are in the EU they have not committed a crime.

I'm not the only person on this thread telling you this.

Take the hint.

They don’t need to be members of the EU to commit a crime in EU territory.

Which bit of that isn’t making it into your frontal lobe?

[Burwood]

Some of you guys should run over their and help them out. There is no question Iran are mad as a box of frogs. It’s a bloody disgrace you even suggest ‘we’ are worse.

Edited by Burwood on Saturday 20th July 21:44

[Funky Squirrel]

wolfracesonic said:

One thing that surprised me was the Stena Impero is registered in London. If you do that, don’t you have to have effective safety standards/crew welfare etc. as opposed to places like Panama and LIberia? Any way, send in the SAS, it look a like the vessel concerned has a balcony, they love a balcony those guys

I would love to see the getaway video of the tanker at full speed with the boys waving at the surprised Iranians.

[Countdown]

Burwood said:

Some if you guts should run over their and help them out. There is no question Iran are mad as a box of frogs. It’s a bloody disgrace you even suggest ‘we’ are worse.

Over 600 British guys killed in Iraq and Afghanistan, over 12000 injured.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/11...

in hindsight do you think that was "worth it"?

[NRS]

fido said:

I was out last night with a friend on the South Bank and we started talking to a group of people near us. among them were a guy and girl from Israel and Iran - not a combination I expected and it reminded me of this thread. I asked them about all the stuff on the news and what their thoughts were on it. I asked her what she thought of the current leader and their attempts to develop nuclear weapons. Straight out she was adamant that they were a bunch of idiots and the last thing they needed were nuclear weapons, and shouldn't be trusted with nuclear weapons. I also asked her if the current government was better or life under the Shah - she said definitely the latter though she said he was too weak to stop the revolution. Just one person's opinion but nevertheless someone in their twenties who doesn't condone or support any of the current going-ons.

I'm a little puzzled how a 20-something year old can comment on the difference in life between the current lot, and someone overthrown 40 years ago? From what I understand the government there are worse, but the people are far more western in outlook etc than many of the "good guys" we're supporting (at least currently).

[Countdown]

NRS said:

I'm a little puzzled how a 20-something year old can comment on the difference in life between the current lot, and someone overthrown 40 years ago? From what I understand the government there are worse, but the people are far more western in outlook etc than many of the "good guys" we're supporting (at least currently).

Under the Shah the top 5 or 10% would have had a great lifestyle (similar to Assad's cronies at the moment). When they got booted out of Iran they would have been quite bitter, and their children would have been taught that.

[NRS]

Countdown said:

NRS said:

I'm a little puzzled how a 20-something year old can comment on the difference in life between the current lot, and someone overthrown 40 years ago? From what I understand the government there are worse, but the people are far more western in outlook etc than many of the "good guys" we're supporting (at least currently).

Under the Shah the top 5 or 10% would have had a great lifestyle (similar to Assad's cronies at the moment). When they got booted out of Iran they would have been quite bitter, and their children would have been taught that.

I guessed that - but that isn't really a position to comment on if life was better or not - just that you've been told something by people. However at certain points under the Shah there was some big economic growth too. So it could well have been better. Just the person in question was born around 20 years after!

[egor110]

NRS said:

Countdown said:

NRS said:

I'm a little puzzled how a 20-something year old can comment on the difference in life between the current lot, and someone overthrown 40 years ago? From what I understand the government there are worse, but the people are far more western in outlook etc than many of the "good guys" we're supporting (at least currently).

Under the Shah the top 5 or 10% would have had a great lifestyle (similar to Assad's cronies at the moment). When they got booted out of Iran they would have been quite bitter, and their children would have been taught that.

I guessed that - but that isn't really a position to comment on if life was better or not - just that you've been told something by people. However at certain points under the Shah there was some big economic growth too. So it could well have been better. Just the person in question was born around 20 years after!

Of course it is .

If that's her life experience then it's valid .

[Countdown]

NRS said:

I guessed that - but that isn't really a position to comment on if life was better or not - just that you've been told something by people. However at certain points under the Shah there was some big economic growth too. So it could well have been better. Just the person in question was born around 20 years after!

In terms of economic growth I think that would have happened under the current regime as well, had it not been for the 10-year war and the multiple levels of sanctions. Bear in mind the Iranian regime is no worse than the Saudis (and actually better in many respects). The reason why they're the bad guys is that, unlike the saudis/Kuwaitis/Iraqis under saddam they wouldnt do what the US told them to do.

[skyrover]

Don't confuse simply refusing to do as the American's ask, and being a bunch of horrible bds.

Iran wants to dominate the region, whether it had America on it's side or not.

[grumbledoak]

skyrover said:

Don't confuse simply refusing to do as the American's ask, and being a bunch of horrible bds.

Iran wants to dominate the region, whether it had America on it's side or not.

Is this the hypocrisy thread? We are allied to the most horrible bds in the region, and pretty much created the other. Iran was doing okay 'til we installed a puppet. And it's the same story in several others.

[biggbn]

fido said:

I was out last night with a friend on the South Bank and we started talking to a group of people near us. among them were a guy and girl from Israel and Iran - not a combination I expected and it reminded me of this thread. I asked them about all the stuff on the news and what their thoughts were on it. I asked her what she thought of the current leader and their attempts to develop nuclear weapons. Straight out she was adamant that they were a bunch of idiots and the last thing they needed were nuclear weapons, and shouldn't be trusted with nuclear weapons. I also asked her if the current government was better or life under the Shah - she said definitely the latter though she said he was too weak to stop the revolution. Just one person's opinion but nevertheless someone in their twenties who doesn't condone or support any of the current going-ons.

How would someone in their twenties know how life was under the Shah? Or am I missing something here?

[Countdown]

skyrover said:

Don't confuse simply refusing to do as the American's ask, and being a bunch of horrible bds.

Iran wants to dominate the region, whether it had America on it's side or not.

Have a look at the number of US bases surrounding Iran.

https://static.businessinsider.com/image/4ee6562ee...

And you think it's Iran who wants to dominate the region???

[skyrover]

grumbledoak said:

skyrover said:

Don't confuse simply refusing to do as the American's ask, and being a bunch of horrible bds.

Iran wants to dominate the region, whether it had America on it's side or not.

Is this the hypocrisy thread? We are allied to the most horrible bds in the region, and pretty much created the other. Iran was doing okay 'til we installed a puppet. And it's the same story in several others.

Name one Islamic country that has not ended up a backward, authoritarian sthole or is well on the way to becoming one. Blaming others (namely the West or Israel) for one's own problems is a middle eastern pastime.

[grumbledoak]

skyrover said:

Name one Islamic country that has not ended up a backward, authoritarian sthole or is well on the way to becoming one. Blaming others (namely the West or Israel) for one's own problems is a middle eastern pastime.

You mean "name one we haven't turned into a backward, authoritarian sthole", I presume? There is a reason we keep getting the blame here.

[s2art]

grumbledoak said:

skyrover said:

Name one Islamic country that has not ended up a backward, authoritarian sthole or is well on the way to becoming one. Blaming others (namely the West or Israel) for one's own problems is a middle eastern pastime.

You mean "name one we haven't turned into a backward, authoritarian sthole", I presume? There is a reason we keep getting the blame here.

You blaming the UK for the situation in Egypt or the Sudan? (or a few other places that we inflicted good governance on)

[Earthdweller]

s2art said:

You blaming the UK for the situation in Egypt or the Sudan? (or a few other places that we inflicted good governance on)

Whilst the UK ( and many others ) drew abitary lines in the map to create “modern states” from tribal feudal and religious areas all that has happened since the Colonials left is that they have regressed back along tribal and religious lines

This is not just the ME but all over, even Europe where you have to look no further than post Tito Yugoslavia

Both Iraq and Iran were modern free westernised societies until the 70’s

If people’s default position is a 2000 year old book then so be it

[grumbledoak]

s2art said:

You blaming the UK for the situation in Egypt or the Sudan? (or a few other places that we inflicted good governance on)

I am less familiar with Sudan at present, but Egypt's current situation is Phony Spring based.

Can you name one that wants us back in charge? Maybe Hong Kong.

[s2art]

grumbledoak said:

s2art said:

You blaming the UK for the situation in Egypt or the Sudan? (or a few other places that we inflicted good governance on)

I am less familiar with Sudan at present, but Egypt's current situation is Phony Spring based.

Can you name one that wants us back in charge? Maybe Hong Kong.

I mentioned the Sudan because thats exactly what some of the old timers who could remember British rule were saying. Similar in Sierra Leone, not to mention parts of the carribean who refused independence. Not that long ago many were saying in in Zimbabwe too..