Balanced Question Time panel tonight - of course not! Vol 3
Discussion
Mobile Chicane said:
Unbusy said:
One in four kids in poverty. I have no idea if this statement is accurate or not but isn’t the UK around the fifth richest country? Somehow it doesn’t ring true to me.
I can show you kids in poverty in Surrey. Come on down. I'll buy the beers.Mobile Chicane said:
Unbusy said:
One in four kids in poverty. I have no idea if this statement is accurate or not but isn’t the UK around the fifth richest country? Somehow it doesn’t ring true to me.
I can show you kids in poverty in Surrey. Come on down. I'll buy the beers.Or do you prefer to just talk about poverty whilst quaffing your champers?
micky metro said:
Mobile Chicane said:
Unbusy said:
One in four kids in poverty. I have no idea if this statement is accurate or not but isn’t the UK around the fifth richest country? Somehow it doesn’t ring true to me.
I can show you kids in poverty in Surrey. Come on down. I'll buy the beers.If a millionaire leaves the UK, it moves some people out of relative poverty.
pingu393 said:
Mobile Chicane said:
I can show you kids in poverty in Surrey. Come on down. I'll buy the beers.
Do you really mean absolute poverty, or relative poverty?Mobile Chicane said:
Unbusy said:
One in four kids in poverty. I have no idea if this statement is accurate or not but isn’t the UK around the fifth richest country? Somehow it doesn’t ring true to me.
I can show you kids in poverty in Surrey. Come on down. I'll buy the beers.Unbusy said:
One in four kids in poverty. I have no idea if this statement is accurate or not but isn’t the UK around the fifth richest country? Somehow it doesn’t ring true to me.
That's relative poverty all that means is that they are in a household with income below 60 percent of median income. At the moment that's roughly the equivalent of a Salary of 21000. It's a measure that is a little misleading because, without making the child any better off, they can be taken out of "Poverty" by the economy as whole dipping or they could be, in absolute terms, better off than children who were not in poverty and be classified as in poverty if the economy improves. In fact if it was measured against what the median would have been 10 years ago, just adjusted for inflation, it would be much lower so by that measure it's improved.
Also some say it should be 50% others 54%. Changing that would put or take people out of poverty without their lot improving. It's a figure that means pretty much automatically over 20 percent of people are in poverty. For instance it's about 20 percent of children in the US and Norway.
In terms of a UN absolute poverty measure it's nearly non existent in the UK and it's only a tiny number in overall poverty.
Edited by Graveworm on Friday 6th December 00:33
uk66fastback said:
Mobile Chicane said:
Unbusy said:
One in four kids in poverty. I have no idea if this statement is accurate or not but isn’t the UK around the fifth richest country? Somehow it doesn’t ring true to me.
I can show you kids in poverty in Surrey. Come on down. I'll buy the beers.Mobile Chicane said:
pingu393 said:
Mobile Chicane said:
I can show you kids in poverty in Surrey. Come on down. I'll buy the beers.
Do you really mean absolute poverty, or relative poverty?
anonymous said:
[redacted]
It is anecdotal, however based in reality. In surely the wealthiest county in the country such things should not exist but I can assure you they do.I'm a chef in a Surrey Hills gastropub. We get kids from the local 'estate' in to do pot wash and I've seen what clothes they turn up in and how they wolf scraps from plates that come back.
There isn't food at home. I know teenagers can eat for England, but this is something else.
It truly saddens me. One lad is looking after his younger siblings as his Mum is always out working. As a care assistant in a local care home. £8.41 an hour.
Local rents for a two-bed house are typically £1,200 a month, plus bills, plus Council Tax. Local salaries £1,400 a month for a 40 hour week. Not hard to see how that doesn't cover outgoings....
Unbusy said:
One in four kids in poverty. I have no idea if this statement is accurate or not but isn’t the UK around the fifth richest country? Somehow it doesn’t ring true to me.
Poverty is defined these days in relative terms.You could be the richest country on earth, but the poorest in that society, who could only afford a small yacht, would be living in "poverty"
Mobile Chicane said:
It is anecdotal, however based in reality. In surely the wealthiest county in the country such things should not exist but I can assure you they do.
I'm a chef in a Surrey Hills gastropub. We get kids from the local 'estate' in to do pot wash and I've seen what clothes they turn up in and how they wolf scraps from plates that come back.
There isn't food at home. I know teenagers can eat for England, but this is something else.
It truly saddens me. One lad is looking after his younger siblings as his Mum is always out working. As a care assistant in a local care home. £8.41 an hour.
Local rents for a two-bed house are typically £1,200 a month, plus bills, plus Council Tax. Local salaries £1,400 a month for a 40 hour week. Not hard to see how that doesn't cover outgoings....
I’m not buying that, just like I don’t buy McDonnell fighting seagulls for scraps of herring to survive.I'm a chef in a Surrey Hills gastropub. We get kids from the local 'estate' in to do pot wash and I've seen what clothes they turn up in and how they wolf scraps from plates that come back.
There isn't food at home. I know teenagers can eat for England, but this is something else.
It truly saddens me. One lad is looking after his younger siblings as his Mum is always out working. As a care assistant in a local care home. £8.41 an hour.
Local rents for a two-bed house are typically £1,200 a month, plus bills, plus Council Tax. Local salaries £1,400 a month for a 40 hour week. Not hard to see how that doesn't cover outgoings....
Before we all get too Tory and too typical PH anally-retentive on the definition...I get the context of where Mobile Chicane is coming from. I somewhat dispute the 1 in 4 figure though.
My mother and sister are teachers up north. The stories they have told of their experiences with some of the kids are very much depressing and heart breaking truth be told. You would not expect to hear such things in the UK in today’s world. They aren’t the “headline” gang glamour schlock of teenage stabbings and inner city crime that the media likes to run with, but simply just depressing drudgery, absolute poverty, grime and yes unless the kids eat at school...semi starvation.
You simply do not expect to hear it and it is instinctively depressing when you do. You have to feel for these kids.
What is also however, a relatively common element to these stories is unfortunately the Home life and parents. I will be entirely honest, I could not face many of these parents without needing to give them an old fashioned Northern leathering! I fully accept there are enough children in poverty in the UK to make it somewhat embarrassing for those of us more well off, however the other side of those tales from what I know so far is that it is most often down to utterly useless humans as parents.
My mother and sister are teachers up north. The stories they have told of their experiences with some of the kids are very much depressing and heart breaking truth be told. You would not expect to hear such things in the UK in today’s world. They aren’t the “headline” gang glamour schlock of teenage stabbings and inner city crime that the media likes to run with, but simply just depressing drudgery, absolute poverty, grime and yes unless the kids eat at school...semi starvation.
You simply do not expect to hear it and it is instinctively depressing when you do. You have to feel for these kids.
What is also however, a relatively common element to these stories is unfortunately the Home life and parents. I will be entirely honest, I could not face many of these parents without needing to give them an old fashioned Northern leathering! I fully accept there are enough children in poverty in the UK to make it somewhat embarrassing for those of us more well off, however the other side of those tales from what I know so far is that it is most often down to utterly useless humans as parents.
Let's be clear. When a point-scoring politician asserts that "4 million children in the UK live in poverty" they mean relative poverty.
And that only truly measures inequality. Now, you can argue how important inequality is, and which party might best deal with it.
But if you want to see genuine (absolute) poverty, I suggest you go to somewhere like Mozambique.
And that only truly measures inequality. Now, you can argue how important inequality is, and which party might best deal with it.
But if you want to see genuine (absolute) poverty, I suggest you go to somewhere like Mozambique.
Brave Fart said:
Let's be clear. When a point-scoring politician asserts that "4 million children in the UK live in poverty" they mean relative poverty.
And that only truly measures inequality. Now, you can argue how important inequality is, and which party might best deal with it.
But if you want to see genuine (absolute) poverty, I suggest you go to somewhere like Mozambique.
Poverty fell as a result of the 2008 recession. And that only truly measures inequality. Now, you can argue how important inequality is, and which party might best deal with it.
But if you want to see genuine (absolute) poverty, I suggest you go to somewhere like Mozambique.
https://www.ifs.org.uk/publications/9541
That perhaps shows its limitations as a public policy tool.
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