45th President of the United States, Donald Trump (Vol. 7)
Discussion
The Washington Post have said that two people familiar with the book confirmed that it details Trump tying aid to the desire for Biden probes and details a number of conversations about Ukraine that he had with Trump and key advisers, such as Mike Pompeo.
No wonder trump wanted to block all their testimonies.
No wonder trump wanted to block all their testimonies.
Head in the sand, plough on regardless.
Jay Sekulow just argued that "not a single witness” said they heard from the president himself that the security assistance was linked to investigations. Doubling down on that argument despite the prospect of having a witness (John Bolton) who could testify to exactly that
Jay Sekulow just argued that "not a single witness” said they heard from the president himself that the security assistance was linked to investigations. Doubling down on that argument despite the prospect of having a witness (John Bolton) who could testify to exactly that
Byker28i said:
Slow said:
paulguitar said:
Carl_Manchester said:
Spx said:
John Boltons book available on Amazon March 17 2020.
Getting fired by Trump makes for good copy. Of course, if you're in manufacturing, farming, or trying to buy something affected by trumps tariffs then you're seriously out of pocket...
Is that attributable to Boris Johnson?
Byker28i said:
Head in the sand, plough on regardless.
Jay Sekulow just argued that "not a single witness” said they heard from the president himself that the security assistance was linked to investigations. Doubling down on that argument despite the prospect of having a witness (John Bolton) who could testify to exactly that
Of course there's "not a single witness”, the GOP refuse to allow anyJay Sekulow just argued that "not a single witness” said they heard from the president himself that the security assistance was linked to investigations. Doubling down on that argument despite the prospect of having a witness (John Bolton) who could testify to exactly that
Carl_Manchester said:
You have to measure politicians with an historical lense, Trump is no Bill Clinton but out of all those who ran he was the best candidate. If the candidate wins you need to back him and get behind him with the knowledge that presidents come and go.
In terms of him delivering what he said he would he is doing far better than the previous three British governments did with delivering their manifesto.
Some people are just not willing to accept the democratic process anymore, no matter how ‘good’ or ‘bad’ a sitting president is.
I just see much of the wailing as background noise hiding this truth. If Biden wins the next election i will probably support him, like i supported Obama.
In the interim, Trump is proving many people wrong by delivering the goods.
One of the themes in this is that impeachment is usurping the electoral process, and is somehow undemocratic and a bit of a cheat. In terms of him delivering what he said he would he is doing far better than the previous three British governments did with delivering their manifesto.
Some people are just not willing to accept the democratic process anymore, no matter how ‘good’ or ‘bad’ a sitting president is.
I just see much of the wailing as background noise hiding this truth. If Biden wins the next election i will probably support him, like i supported Obama.
In the interim, Trump is proving many people wrong by delivering the goods.
Absolutely not. Trump took an oath at his inauguration to defend and uphold the Constitution. The Constitution contains the mechanism and basis for impeachment. There is absolutely nothing undemocratic, unfair or cheating - nada, zip, nil, zilch - about engaging the Constitution and its processes to remove a President by impeachment.
Claiming that impeachment interferes with the electoral process, the will of the people, blah blah, shows a fundamental misrepresentation of how the Constitution works. It's basically a Mitch McConnell piece of BS amounting to "don't impeach in an election year", which is up there with "Democrat Presidents can't nominate Supreme Court Justices in an election year".
It would be interesting if the Bolton thing is a genuine tipping point. At some point the GOP senators have to realise that they've circled the wagons to defend a cesspit.
Edited by BlackTails on Monday 27th January 21:51
BlackTails said:
The Constitution contains the mechanism and basis for impeachment.
........ At some point the GOP senators have to realise that they've circled the wagons to defend a cesspit.
There are many historical parallels with the Clintons and Whitewater 1992. Regardless of political persuasions of the voters, ultimately it will be the CIA that provides the evidence to provide a political mortal blow, if there is one. It all depends on voter sentiment at the time and there is not enough voter sentiment to have Trump removed as they was none for removing Clinton. ........ At some point the GOP senators have to realise that they've circled the wagons to defend a cesspit.
Edited by BlackTails on Monday 27th January 21:51
I think this period will be looked back on as a missed opportunity for the Democrats to outline an alternative strategy for the 2020 elections instead it’s all about Trump rather than outlining a viable political alternative to convince swing voters.
Trump is on News TV 24/7 and all the mass media, once he is acquitted, the Democrats will be out of bullets.
It is almost as if the Democrats have given up on conventional politics and are trying to win by painting Trump to be a fraud, which he is not, he is the legitimate POTUS and the cult inside the current Democratic party just can’t accept this, similar with momentum in the UK.
The smear campaign didn’t work out in the 90s on Bill Clinton eventhough they were both probably guilty of fraud (and in the case of Bill, bringing the presidential office into disrepute) - it’s a good job for him Lewinski was not a Soviet plant.
Carl_Manchester said:
There are many historical parallels with the Clintons and Whitewater 1992. Regardless of political persuasions of the voters, ultimately it will be the CIA that provides the evidence to provide a political mortal blow, if there is one. It all depends on voter sentiment at the time and there is not enough voter sentiment to have Trump removed as they was none for removing Clinton.
I think this period will be looked back on as a missed opportunity for the Democrats to outline an alternative strategy for the 2020 elections instead it’s all about Trump rather than outlining a viable political alternative to convince swing voters.
Trump is on News TV 24/7 and all the mass media, once he is acquitted, the Democrats will be out of bullets.
It is almost as if the Democrats have given up on conventional politics and are trying to win by painting Trump to be a fraud, which he is not, he is the legitimate POTUS and the cult inside the current Democratic party just can’t accept this, similar with momentum in the UK.
The smear campaign didn’t work out in the 90s on Bill Clinton eventhough they were both probably guilty of fraud (and in the case of Bill, bringing the presidential office into disrepute) - it’s a good job for him Lewinski was not a Soviet plant.
I think Trump and his completely unpresidential conduct has penned the democrats into a corner. How long could Pelosi put off impeachment? At the end of the day the guy has done enough to be impeached 100 times over. He’s a disgrace. Read even a days worth of tweets from the clown and you’ll be down a good few brain cells and with more than enough evidence for a jury to convict of collusion/misconduct. He’s not even bothered to hide his criminality, he’s positively boasted about it. I think this period will be looked back on as a missed opportunity for the Democrats to outline an alternative strategy for the 2020 elections instead it’s all about Trump rather than outlining a viable political alternative to convince swing voters.
Trump is on News TV 24/7 and all the mass media, once he is acquitted, the Democrats will be out of bullets.
It is almost as if the Democrats have given up on conventional politics and are trying to win by painting Trump to be a fraud, which he is not, he is the legitimate POTUS and the cult inside the current Democratic party just can’t accept this, similar with momentum in the UK.
The smear campaign didn’t work out in the 90s on Bill Clinton eventhough they were both probably guilty of fraud (and in the case of Bill, bringing the presidential office into disrepute) - it’s a good job for him Lewinski was not a Soviet plant.
I think the problem with the yanks is that they have a rigid written constitution written by folks who never saw their fledgling democracy ever being daft enough to vote in someone so obviously corrupt and morally bankrupt. In this country his own party would have removed him a long time ago and so for us it’s weird watching this unfolding. If Boris tweeted even one of the things Trump has tweeted in the last few days the s
t would have hit the fan, certainly even one of those juvenile tweets would be more than enough to cost an election. The world watches aghast as one of the supposedly strongest democracies succumbs. It’s frankly embarrassing watching the most powerful country in the world being ruled by someone so hilariously puerile.Yes that’s democracy but it’s also the perfect demonstration of the weakness of democracy.
You made an argument earlier about respecting the office and getting behind the leader. That is literally the polar opposite of what a healthy democracy should do. A healthy democracy challenges every single decision, action or comment made by its leader and holds them fully accountable. There is no higher form of patriotism than holding your elected officials to account.
Edited by djc206 on Monday 27th January 23:42
Carl_Manchester said:
There are many historical parallels with the Clintons and Whitewater 1992...
... ultimately it will be the CIA that provides the evidence to provide a political mortal blow, if there is one.
...trying to win by painting Trump to be a fraud, which he is not,
... he is the legitimate POTUS and the cult inside the current Democratic party just can’t accept this, similar with momentum in the UK.
The smear campaign didn’t work out in the 90s on Bill Clinton eventhough they were both probably guilty of fraud (and in the case of Bill, bringing the presidential office into disrepute) - it’s a good job for him Lewinski was not a Soviet plant.
Is this supposed to sound like a 360 degree political insight? Because it comes across as the work of someone who has combined a very very small amount of knowledge with a childishly overactive imagination fed by second rate television drama. ... ultimately it will be the CIA that provides the evidence to provide a political mortal blow, if there is one.
...trying to win by painting Trump to be a fraud, which he is not,
... he is the legitimate POTUS and the cult inside the current Democratic party just can’t accept this, similar with momentum in the UK.
The smear campaign didn’t work out in the 90s on Bill Clinton eventhough they were both probably guilty of fraud (and in the case of Bill, bringing the presidential office into disrepute) - it’s a good job for him Lewinski was not a Soviet plant.
Byker28i said:
paulguitar said:
Gameface said:
Outline the promises he made that he has delivered on?
This. What has he delivered, other than a succession of scandals?The warmongering juggernaut that was neoconservative policy may not have been stopped entirely and I strongly disagree with his decision to withdraw from the JCPOA (Iran deal), however I think it's fair to say he's tried to stop the forever wars just as he promised to do, even if he lacks the understanding or ability to actually pull it off. (Also of note, the embassy move to Jerusalem, doing god's work n all that.)
On China I again think his strategy and tactics are abysmal but can not fault him for effort, indeed the effort may be the most important thing here. From a voter perspective what he is delivering on is the promise to lash back against globalisation.
Lower taxes. Regardless of any long term effects there is a large caucus of people dedicated to lower taxes and I'm not talking about the 1%. Whenever I hear left wingers talking about 'the workers' and 'solidarity' I often wonder if they've ever been to a working class area in their life. To be fair some have but still, taxes are not free money and some are more passionate about this than others.
Immigration. Again lack of competence but hey it's Trump, that's his hallmark. One of the problems with this subject is that the media and social media amplifies left/right extreme voices so much that it's really hard to have a sensible discussion. The fact that Trump's nuance extends only so far as separating kids from parents I find more than a little nauseating and the border wall's an utter farce, however, he tried?
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Ok that's the best I can do for specific policies however I don't think that really does it justice in terms of what Trump's actually delivering on rather than what he talks about delivering on.
Trump is a living pepe meme. This is the policy on which Trump has delivered.
Decades ago when the internet was bulletin boards and 4chan was but a pre-fart twinkling in some troll's anal eye the two main languages of the internet were English and Russian, not a small factor in how we got to where we are now. Without physical contact or any worry of being fingered by GCHQ there was no need for boundaries and so the pervasive culture was 'it's your fault for being offended'.
This is what teenagers were doing about the time when adults were struggling with the phrase 'political correctness' which had come about as a reaction to the casual racism of the 70's / 80's. Thanks to the adults doing things like inventing ecstasy pills so that football hooliganism could become hooligan love-ins said teenagers had no f'ing clue what racism or hardship looked like so yay, let's all think that real life is a case of 'it's your fault for being offended'.
A point about the above paragraph of cynicism is that through the 00's/10's there was a certain amount of what Joe Rogan calls pussification, an argument I find hard to disagree with, however the problem was that many of said pussies were part of the 'for the lulz' crowd who gave us Something Awful, Anonymous, Goonswarm, etc. A truly powerful cultural force without whom we would not have the memes and language we use today but still pussies, there was little hardship in their lives.
Now in 2020 we have the confluence. At the same time as the BBS teenagers are getting in to their 30's and 40's and therefore having real influences on the world, among the older generation those born pre war were dying off. This is important because people born pre WWII had very different attitudes (and were more likely to vote against brexit because they'd actually fought for this stuff) compared to those born post war (who were more likely to get a hard on for the blitz spirit and vote for brexit).
Put this together and what we have is a now middle aged generation who grew up on 'it's your fault for being offended' because they were protected by their computers and an older generation who grew up on blitz spirit but never had to actually do the fighting. Joe Rogan's right about pussification but I'm not sure the story's as simple as it seems to be.
What policy has Trump truly delivered on? He's become the living embodiment of a pepe the frog meme.
Edited by Tartan Pixie on Tuesday 28th January 03:48
Moving the embassy to Jerusalem was about pleasing Kushner, and supporting Israels wishes, again trump is compromised by them. We know team trump used Israeli intelligence and Psy-ops in the 2016 campaign.
The US needed to find a solution to China, but trumps tarrif tactic was ill thought out, and continuously doubled down when it didn't work because he didn't want to lose face. It's just left US consumers and producers paying more and has been disaterous, especially for the farmers. Trump didn't have a full picture, was ill prepared and that has so far cost them over $25bn in handouts with more promised.
Pulling out of the trade deal there left a vacuuming China was very happy to fill.
Taxes? He's wreaked the economy in years to come by significantly increasing the national debt whilst reducing the income available.
Immigration policy- we know that was pushed by Stephen Miller, discourage families fleeing poverty or oppression, take their kids away from them, don't tell them where they are are send them back over the border. Brilliant if you have no morales and see other people as worthless.
Well that is until you need cheap labour for your hotels and golf courses.
I guess if your adding another success it's how many GOP judges trump has appointed, assisted by McConnell and the Federalist Society who pushed Kavanaugh as well.
The US needed to find a solution to China, but trumps tarrif tactic was ill thought out, and continuously doubled down when it didn't work because he didn't want to lose face. It's just left US consumers and producers paying more and has been disaterous, especially for the farmers. Trump didn't have a full picture, was ill prepared and that has so far cost them over $25bn in handouts with more promised.
Pulling out of the trade deal there left a vacuuming China was very happy to fill.
Taxes? He's wreaked the economy in years to come by significantly increasing the national debt whilst reducing the income available.
Immigration policy- we know that was pushed by Stephen Miller, discourage families fleeing poverty or oppression, take their kids away from them, don't tell them where they are are send them back over the border. Brilliant if you have no morales and see other people as worthless.
Well that is until you need cheap labour for your hotels and golf courses.
I guess if your adding another success it's how many GOP judges trump has appointed, assisted by McConnell and the Federalist Society who pushed Kavanaugh as well.
Edited by Byker28i on Tuesday 28th January 07:04
Bolton privately told Barr last year that he had concerns Trump was effectively granting personal favors to the autocrats of Turkey and China. Barr said he was concerned Trump created appearance he had undue influence on inquiries
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/27/us/politics/joh...
Mr. Barr responded by pointing to a pair of Justice Department investigations of companies in those countries and said he was worried that Mr. Trump had created the appearance that he had undue influence over what would typically be independent inquiries, according to the manuscript. Backing up his point, Mr. Barr mentioned conversations Mr. Trump had with the leaders, President Recep Tayyip Erdogan of Turkey and President Xi Jinping of China.
Mr. Bolton’s account underscores the fact that the unease about Mr. Trump’s seeming embrace of authoritarian leaders, long expressed by experts and his opponents, also existed among some of the senior cabinet officers entrusted by the president to carry out his foreign policy and national security agendas.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/27/us/politics/joh...
Mr. Barr responded by pointing to a pair of Justice Department investigations of companies in those countries and said he was worried that Mr. Trump had created the appearance that he had undue influence over what would typically be independent inquiries, according to the manuscript. Backing up his point, Mr. Barr mentioned conversations Mr. Trump had with the leaders, President Recep Tayyip Erdogan of Turkey and President Xi Jinping of China.
Mr. Bolton’s account underscores the fact that the unease about Mr. Trump’s seeming embrace of authoritarian leaders, long expressed by experts and his opponents, also existed among some of the senior cabinet officers entrusted by the president to carry out his foreign policy and national security agendas.
trumps defence is still pushing discredited stories, almost as if trump himself wrote the brief
Trump defense lawyer Pam Bondi began her presentation Monday afternoon by highlighting what President Donald Trump pressured Ukraine to investigate — former Vice President Joe Biden and his son Hunter.
Andrew Bates, the Biden campaign's rapid response director, slammed the argument Pam Bond delivered Monday on the Senate floor, saying in a statement: "We didn't realize that Breitbart was expanding into Ted Talk knockoffs. Here on planet Earth, the conspiracy theory that Bondi repeated has been conclusively refuted. The New York Times calls it 'debunked,' The Wall Street Journal calls it 'discredited,' the AP calls it 'incorrect,' and The Washington Post fact checker calls is 'a fountain of falsehoods.' The diplomat that Trump himself appointed to lead his Ukraine policy has blasted it as 'self serving' and 'not credible.' Joe Biden was instrumental to a bipartisan and international anti-corruption victory. It's no surprise that such a thing is anathema to President Trump."
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/trump-impeachment...
Trump defense lawyer Pam Bondi began her presentation Monday afternoon by highlighting what President Donald Trump pressured Ukraine to investigate — former Vice President Joe Biden and his son Hunter.
Andrew Bates, the Biden campaign's rapid response director, slammed the argument Pam Bond delivered Monday on the Senate floor, saying in a statement: "We didn't realize that Breitbart was expanding into Ted Talk knockoffs. Here on planet Earth, the conspiracy theory that Bondi repeated has been conclusively refuted. The New York Times calls it 'debunked,' The Wall Street Journal calls it 'discredited,' the AP calls it 'incorrect,' and The Washington Post fact checker calls is 'a fountain of falsehoods.' The diplomat that Trump himself appointed to lead his Ukraine policy has blasted it as 'self serving' and 'not credible.' Joe Biden was instrumental to a bipartisan and international anti-corruption victory. It's no surprise that such a thing is anathema to President Trump."
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/trump-impeachment...
Note:
Ivanka and Kushner made $135m last year whilst working for the White House.
Qatar bailed out Jared's failing 666 Park Avenue business for $1.6B, we know Kushner used Saudi to put pressure on Qatar.
China gave Ivanka numerous patents, including a trademark for a voting machine in China in 2018. What fashion design area includes voting machines?
Ivanka worked with Iran's Republican Guard in laundering money through Trump Tower in Baku
Rudy Giuliani’s son Andrew gets $90,700 a year as ”Sports Liaison” for the White House.
Barr's son in law works in the White House counsel’s office, where he “advises the president, the executive office, and White House staff on legal issues concerning the president and the presidency.”
Ivanka and Kushner made $135m last year whilst working for the White House.
Qatar bailed out Jared's failing 666 Park Avenue business for $1.6B, we know Kushner used Saudi to put pressure on Qatar.
China gave Ivanka numerous patents, including a trademark for a voting machine in China in 2018. What fashion design area includes voting machines?
Ivanka worked with Iran's Republican Guard in laundering money through Trump Tower in Baku
Rudy Giuliani’s son Andrew gets $90,700 a year as ”Sports Liaison” for the White House.
Barr's son in law works in the White House counsel’s office, where he “advises the president, the executive office, and White House staff on legal issues concerning the president and the presidency.”
The timeline of Boltons manuscript is interesting.
We know Bolton long put forward being more aggressive with Iran
We know that Bolton sent his manuscript to the White house on 30th Dec
We know that trump ordered the assassination of Soleimani just four days later, on January 3rd, 2020, after of course telling members at Mar-a-Lago first.
We know that Bolton tweeted positively about it, even as just about everyone else was calling it reckless.
'Many People' are now asking if trump assassinated Soleimani to keep Bolton happy and/or quiet
We know Bolton long put forward being more aggressive with Iran
We know that Bolton sent his manuscript to the White house on 30th Dec
We know that trump ordered the assassination of Soleimani just four days later, on January 3rd, 2020, after of course telling members at Mar-a-Lago first.
We know that Bolton tweeted positively about it, even as just about everyone else was calling it reckless.
'Many People' are now asking if trump assassinated Soleimani to keep Bolton happy and/or quiet
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