How do we think EU negotiations will go? (Vol 11)

[Tuna]

braddo said:

The services industry.

It has a £100bn+ surplus with the EU. Can you enunciate how Brexit will protect that trade surplus?

It won't. HTH.

In return can you enunciate how Remaining would have protected that trade surplus? Specifically in a bloc that specialises in making mobility across national boundaries frictionless, and that has stated that centres like Frankfurt, Amsterdam and Paris must be allowed to have a larger share of the services industry?

[DeepEnd]

Vanden Saab said:

Utter bks many people have wanted to leave the EU for years. Nothing the leave side said made any difference to them. I would bet that a good number of people were convinced to vote leave by the ridiculous claims of impending doom and catastrophe though.
Oh look you are doing it too...

Have you ever wondered why you want to leave the EU?

You’ve been lied to for years. Bendy banana stories were aimed at you to sell papers. You clearly bought it. All exaggerated non-issues, but your love to hate to make yourself feel better made the metro elite you resent so much rich. The irony eh?

[Tuna]

braddo said:

Honestly, it seems like none of the pro-brexit people on this thread ever look at the real reasons why people say brexit is a bad idea. Look past your noses and your prejudice and you won't find a single industry or demographic (other than the Rees-Mogg clique) that will actually benefit from Brexit.

You mean apart from the German Economics institute report that said the UK Pharmaceutical industry could achieve 8% growth through the global opportunities Brexit provided? Would that example do?

[braddo]

And another one for fun.

US Congress will not sign off on a UK trade agreement if the UK has violated the Good Friday Agreement (which it will if there is no backstop or equivalent).

Here are two links but feel free to find your own if you think the Irish lobby in the US aren't going to matter in a US/UK trade deal.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news...

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/trump-brexit-...

[mike9009]

Tuna said:

braddo said:

The services industry.

It has a £100bn+ surplus with the EU. Can you enunciate how Brexit will protect that trade surplus?

It won't. HTH.

In return can you enunciate how Remaining would have protected that trade surplus? Specifically in a bloc that specialises in making mobility across national boundaries frictionless, and that has stated that centres like Frankfurt, Amsterdam and Paris must be allowed to have a larger share of the services industry?

Sorry that I am not answering your question, but seems to be common to ask another question.


Why can Britain not start manufacturing more cars in volume just like BMW, Audi, VW when we were in the EU?

[braddo]

Tuna said:

braddo said:

Honestly, it seems like none of the pro-brexit people on this thread ever look at the real reasons why people say brexit is a bad idea. Look past your noses and your prejudice and you won't find a single industry or demographic (other than the Rees-Mogg clique) that will actually benefit from Brexit.

You mean apart from the German Economics institute report that said the UK Pharmaceutical industry could achieve 8% growth through the global opportunities Brexit provided? Would that example do?

What a load of st.

The UK benefits massively from access to drugs which get EU approval and don't need to go through a separate costly process of UK approval.

The simplest google search shows that the UK benefits massively from EU integration.

https://www.abpi.org.uk/what-we-do/working-with-go...

[Earthdweller]

braddo said:

Oh really? UKIP had 3 million voters and 1 MP.

The SNP have 56 MP’s with 977k votes

Your point is what ?

[Vanden Saab]

braddo said:

Vanden Saab said:

Utter bks many people have wanted to leave the EU for years. Nothing the leave side said made any difference to them. I would bet that a good number of people were convinced to vote leave by the ridiculous claims of impending doom and catastrophe though.
Oh look you are doing it too...

Oh really? UKIP had 3 million voters and 1 MP. How was Brexit a national issue when the electorate was 45 million? It would be like France having a referendum on becoming a Nazi state just because the Front Nationale was getting nearly 10% of the national vote.

How many of the other 45 million wanted to leave but voted for another party because they had other priorities at general elections? That is why the referendum was important, it was just about the EU.
Well done on getting the Nazis into your answer though... genius...

[Tuna]

mike9009 said:

Why can Britain not start manufacturing more cars in volume just like BMW, Audi, VW when we were in the EU?

Mixed tenses in your question so I''m not sure quite what you're asking?

We seem to be much better at engineering than marketing - so whilst we can design and manufacture cars, we suck at selling them. Even in our own country BMW, Audi etc outsell our own cars.

[Elysium]

Murph7355 said:

Elysium said:

...
I think it’s also reasonable to expect campaigners to keep basic promises. The leave campaign specifically said, in writing, that they would agree terms before we left and Brexiteers spoke with confidence about our ability to agree a deal with the EU.
...

(1) Leave were not in government. Everyone knew that.

Furthermore "leave" were not in suitable positions in government (barely in government at all) following May's promotion. The most influential person? Ollie Robbins. Leave proponent extraordinaire.

We both know what the leave campaign promised. None of us know the extent to which that influenced the vote.

Murph7355 said:

Brexiteers spoke of what SHOULD be possible. And as you speak of common sense and pragmatism, they were right.

Maybe. I am only pointing out what they said, not blaming them for the fact Is was not achieved. The point is that promises matter. As above none of us know the extent to which they influenced the vote.

Murph7355 said:

The approach May has taken of trying to get a deal whilst "in" has bombed. It was always destined to, though admittedly she and Robbins could not have made it fail more than they did. Just as "reforming from within" would always have bombed.

this may be right, buts it’s about what happened not what needs to happen next

Murph7355 said:

Simply, you just do not like the result from 3yrs ago. That is fair enough, you have opinions on leaving. But they are insufficient to overturn the result.

As is having incompetents in power. It doesn't make the result "wrong".

I don’t want to overturn the result and I am certainly not arguing it is wrong. I am saying that we should not be trying to pretend that the mandate extends to a course of action that voters were told categorically would not be required.

[braddo]

Tuna said:

braddo said:

The services industry.

It has a £100bn+ surplus with the EU. Can you enunciate how Brexit will protect that trade surplus?

It won't. HTH.

In return can you enunciate how Remaining would have protected that trade surplus? Specifically in a bloc that specialises in making mobility across national boundaries frictionless, and that has stated that centres like Frankfurt, Amsterdam and Paris must be allowed to have a larger share of the services industry?

Unbelievable. I guess you haven't bothered to read the stories like how big multinationals are moving their headquarters and that billions of managed assets are going to move out of the UK if there is a hard Brexit?

Paywall - pay up, you fact-lite stooges! £1 Trillion pounds are going to go if a no-deal exit:
https://www.ft.com/content/016171be-4a74-11e9-8b7f...


In just the past year, £30bn of AUM have moved out of the UK.

https://www.ft.com/content/831c060c-6b52-11e9-a9a5...

This stuff is really easy to find. You might just have to beyond pistonheads, the Telegraph and the Daily Express for some real facts...

[NoNeed]

mike9009 said:

Sorry that I am not answering your question, but seems to be common to ask another question.


Why can Britain not start manufacturing more cars in volume just like BMW, Audi, VW when we were in the EU?

How many would the Germans have made if their government had not supported the clean diesel lies and convinced the EU of the same?

[Tuna]

braddo said:

What a load of st.

The UK benefits massively from access to drugs which get EU approval and don't need to go through a separate costly process of UK approval.

The simplest google search shows that the UK benefits massively from EU integration.

https://www.abpi.org.uk/what-we-do/working-with-go...

Oh dear. Yes, it benefits from EU integration - for selling into EU markets.

Now ask yourself which markets are growing? Second question, just for lolz... do you think being held to EU market controls makes it easier or harder to develop and manufacture drugs for markets outside the EU?

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs10272...

Though I know you''ll ignore that because you don't like having your views challenged.

[Robertj21a]

Elysium said:

Robertj21a said:

Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha, absolutely brilliant, So says the person who, for at least the 806th time, wants a second referendum before we've even implemented the first. Thanks for the laugh.

Yes - because I care about fairness. Whereas you are prepared to do something against the will of the majority in order to get something you want.

Not true. Fairness is implementing democratic decisions, whether you like them or not.

[Vanden Saab]

DeepEnd said:

Vanden Saab said:

Utter bks many people have wanted to leave the EU for years. Nothing the leave side said made any difference to them. I would bet that a good number of people were convinced to vote leave by the ridiculous claims of impending doom and catastrophe though.
Oh look you are doing it too...

Have you ever wondered why you want to leave the EU?

You’ve been lied to for years. Bendy banana stories were aimed at you to sell papers. You clearly bought it. All exaggerated non-issues, but your love to hate to make yourself feel better made the metro elite you resent so much rich. The irony eh?

Did you read that to yourself before you pressed submit?
My love to hate?
make myself feel better.....
resent the metro elite???
Wow.... amazing... what have I missed tonight that is causing all this extremainer angst...

[Jazzer77]

Robertj21a said:

Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha, absolutely brilliant, So says the person who, for at least the 806th time, wants a second referendum before we've even implemented the first. Thanks for the laugh.

Referendum was subject to voter manipulation by Cambridge Analytica et al.

Cambridge Analytica "helped" with an election in Kenya and it was voided due to manipulation.

Sensible to rerun the whole thing without voter manipulation,illegal spending & dirty Russian Money.

Weird to see that Kenyan authorities are more interest in actual democracy than some UK citizens.

[braddo]

Tuna said:

Oh dear. Yes, it benefits from EU integration - for selling into EU markets.

Now ask yourself which markets are growing? Second question, just for lolz... do you think being held to EU market controls makes it easier or harder to develop and manufacture drugs for markets outside the EU?

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs10272...

Though I know you''ll ignore that because you don't like having your views challenged.

Care to provide a link with any credibility whatsoever? What is that link - some tinpot blog?

I provide a link to the UK industry body and you provide, well, something at the opposite end of the credibility spectrum.

[Tuna]

braddo said:

Unbelievable. I guess you haven't bothered to read the stories like how big multinationals are moving their headquarters and that billions of managed assets are going to move out of the UK if there is a hard Brexit?

Are you hard of reading? My response was It won't. I specifically said there was nothing in Brexit to prevent services moving. Is that hard to understand?

In return I asked you what part of Remaining would stop the same movement? It's a bit late to claim we can wake up in 2016 and pretend nothing happend now.

[Tuna]

braddo said:

Care to provide a link with any credibility whatsoever? What is that link - some tinpot blog?

I provide a link to the UK industry body and you provide, well, something at the opposite end of the credibility spectrum.

FFS. You're not even capable of clicking of a link in case it doesn't say what you want? You're making yourself look stupid.

[Robertj21a]

braddo said:

Precisely. It wasn't close to being a national debate.

Cameron only called it because he thought he was guaranteed to win; otherwise the UK public wouldn't have had the chance to be lied to and duped into voting leave. Well, and the fact that the useless communist-wannabe wker Corbyn was the leader of the Labour party.

Honestly, it seems like none of the pro-brexit people on this thread ever look at the real reasons why people say brexit is a bad idea. Look past your noses and your prejudice and you won't find a single industry or demographic (other than the Rees-Mogg clique) that will actually benefit from Brexit.

It reads as though you believe everybody voted in the referendum with just trade in mind.

As has been mentioned on various Brexit threads for months/years, it appears that Remainers tended to vote on issues affecting the economy, trade etc whereas Brexiteers voted more on the basis of sovereignty, immigration etc. You'll never get people to switch allegiances because their aims are totally different.

This thread gets bogged down with trade issues, that's not the same as why people voted to get out of the EU.