How do we think EU negotiations will go? (Vol 11)
Discussion
DeepEnd said:
“Since about 2015, the AfD has been increasingly open to working with far-right extremist groups such as Pegida. Parts of the AfD have racist, Islamophobic, anti-Semitic and xenophobic tendencies linked to far-right movements such as neo-Nazism and identitarianism.”
Any of those qualities an issue for you?
We can all read Wikipedia. So what far-right extremist policies does the AfD actually have?Any of those qualities an issue for you?
DeepEnd said:
“Since about 2015, the AfD has been increasingly open to working with far-right extremist groups such as Pegida. Parts of the AfD have racist, Islamophobic, anti-Semitic and xenophobic tendencies linked to far-right movements such as neo-Nazism and identitarianism.”
Any of those qualities an issue for you?
Sounds like the right equivalent of Corbyn's Labour party.Any of those qualities an issue for you?
Tuna said:
We can all read Wikipedia. So what far-right extremist policies does the AfD actually have?
This article was linked earlierhttps://politics.co.uk/blogs/2019/07/19/week-in-re...
The bit that I would hope some posters here would read carefully and reflect upon is here:
“But waiting for fascism is not about sitting at home with a checklist, contenting yourself that everything is fine until someone ticks every single box. It's about being vigilant about the type of political behaviour which leads to fascism.“
There are plenty of warning signs over the kind of messages being pushed out. One member of AfD has said people can be shot at the border.
The links have been posted, you must be aware of this, and yet through your post you are trying to create an impression that AfD is normal - perhaps this is to try and protect TBP and Nigel, but it is not a healthy thing to be doing.
OzzyR1 said:
Otis Criblecoblis said:
Did any of the anti Brexit PH crowd go ? There was a balloon and some big red bus rage.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-49058...
A bunch of Idiots protesting because they think it's in vogue. Many saying that there should be a General Election as the next Prime Minister will be chosen by the party members rather than the populace.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-49058...
Unbelivable really.
In the last three years has anyone whatsoever looked at people like this and though "actually, I would rather stay in the E. U"
DeepEnd said:
This article was linked earlier
https://politics.co.uk/blogs/2019/07/19/week-in-re...
The bit that I would hope some posters here would read carefully and reflect upon is here:
“But waiting for fascism is not about sitting at home with a checklist, contenting yourself that everything is fine until someone ticks every single box. It's about being vigilant about the type of political behaviour which leads to fascism.“
https://politics.co.uk/blogs/2019/07/19/week-in-re...
The bit that I would hope some posters here would read carefully and reflect upon is here:
“But waiting for fascism is not about sitting at home with a checklist, contenting yourself that everything is fine until someone ticks every single box. It's about being vigilant about the type of political behaviour which leads to fascism.“
Yes exactly the political behaviour!!! , so the left and the smug I'm all right jacks in their ivory towers , need to accept things like a fair but robust immigration policy and a low tolerance of things that have a negative affect on the majority need to be kept in mind
...
DeepEnd said:
This article was linked earlier
https://politics.co.uk/blogs/2019/07/19/week-in-re...
The bit that I would hope some posters here would read carefully and reflect upon is here:
“But waiting for fascism is not about sitting at home with a checklist, contenting yourself that everything is fine until someone ticks every single box. It's about being vigilant about the type of political behaviour which leads to fascism.“
There are plenty of warning signs over the kind of messages being pushed out. One member of AfD has said people can be shot at the border.
The links have been posted, you must be aware of this, and yet through your post you are trying to create an impression that AfD is normal - perhaps this is to try and protect TBP and Nigel, but it is not a healthy thing to be doing.
Quite.https://politics.co.uk/blogs/2019/07/19/week-in-re...
The bit that I would hope some posters here would read carefully and reflect upon is here:
“But waiting for fascism is not about sitting at home with a checklist, contenting yourself that everything is fine until someone ticks every single box. It's about being vigilant about the type of political behaviour which leads to fascism.“
There are plenty of warning signs over the kind of messages being pushed out. One member of AfD has said people can be shot at the border.
The links have been posted, you must be aware of this, and yet through your post you are trying to create an impression that AfD is normal - perhaps this is to try and protect TBP and Nigel, but it is not a healthy thing to be doing.
It's odd because with the information I posted earlier I genuinely thought there would be some comments or enough there to cause people to have a few questions.
Apparently not though.
The information is there and people choose to turn a blind eye.
It's quite sickening.
b
hstewie said:
hstewie said: Quite.
It's odd because with the information I posted earlier I genuinely thought there would be some comments or enough there to cause people to have a few questions.
Apparently not though.
The information is there and people choose to turn a blind eye.
It's quite sickening.
Yes symptoms not causes!! once the sort out the cause the symptoms will diminish to a manageable level It's odd because with the information I posted earlier I genuinely thought there would be some comments or enough there to cause people to have a few questions.
Apparently not though.
The information is there and people choose to turn a blind eye.
It's quite sickening.
Reports in various press this morning of a number of EU countries reaching out to Boris independently of Brussels to avoid a no deal
Meanwhile Merkel has said that the draft agreement could be rewritten to effectively remove the backstop
The word is compromise apparently and some countries notably Germany Belgium France and Ireland will do what’s necessary to avoid a “no deal” Brexit
Maybe .. having someone who wants to leave is what needed after all
Meanwhile Merkel has said that the draft agreement could be rewritten to effectively remove the backstop
The word is compromise apparently and some countries notably Germany Belgium France and Ireland will do what’s necessary to avoid a “no deal” Brexit
Maybe .. having someone who wants to leave is what needed after all
powerstroke said:
Yes symptoms not causes!! once the sort out the cause the symptoms will diminish to a manageable level
You've seen in the US this week where people turning a blind eye leads to.A crowd chanting "Send her back" about a US citizen whilst the President of the United States watches in adulation for 13 seconds and later claims he tried to stop them.
I don't want to see that kind of thing creeping into our politics yet it's exactly what Farage does with talk of "traitors" and "breaking point" posters and associating with those across Europe who say and do far worse.
People who think like that won't stop overnight because we leave the EU.
Stop making excuses for them.
bhstewie said:
hstewie said:DeepEnd said:
This article was linked earlier
https://politics.co.uk/blogs/2019/07/19/week-in-re...
The bit that I would hope some posters here would read carefully and reflect upon is here:
“But waiting for fascism is not about sitting at home with a checklist, contenting yourself that everything is fine until someone ticks every single box. It's about being vigilant about the type of political behaviour which leads to fascism.“
There are plenty of warning signs over the kind of messages being pushed out. One member of AfD has said people can be shot at the border.
The links have been posted, you must be aware of this, and yet through your post you are trying to create an impression that AfD is normal - perhaps this is to try and protect TBP and Nigel, but it is not a healthy thing to be doing.
Quite.https://politics.co.uk/blogs/2019/07/19/week-in-re...
The bit that I would hope some posters here would read carefully and reflect upon is here:
“But waiting for fascism is not about sitting at home with a checklist, contenting yourself that everything is fine until someone ticks every single box. It's about being vigilant about the type of political behaviour which leads to fascism.“
There are plenty of warning signs over the kind of messages being pushed out. One member of AfD has said people can be shot at the border.
The links have been posted, you must be aware of this, and yet through your post you are trying to create an impression that AfD is normal - perhaps this is to try and protect TBP and Nigel, but it is not a healthy thing to be doing.
It's odd because with the information I posted earlier I genuinely thought there would be some comments or enough there to cause people to have a few questions.
Apparently not though.
The information is there and people choose to turn a blind eye.
It's quite sickening.
ClaphamGT3 said:
Sickening and profoundly worrying. The end justifying any means outlook of the ultra-Brexiteers is more than the thin end of a wedge
Ultra-Brexiteers wouldn't exist without the democracy subverters 
Which, ironically, is the same story here. I don't think you guys' strategy of "ignore the concerns and denounce the consequences" is going to work out particularly well
ClaphamGT3 said:
bhstewie said:
hstewie said:DeepEnd said:
This article was linked earlier
https://politics.co.uk/blogs/2019/07/19/week-in-re...
The bit that I would hope some posters here would read carefully and reflect upon is here:
“But waiting for fascism is not about sitting at home with a checklist, contenting yourself that everything is fine until someone ticks every single box. It's about being vigilant about the type of political behaviour which leads to fascism.“
There are plenty of warning signs over the kind of messages being pushed out. One member of AfD has said people can be shot at the border.
The links have been posted, you must be aware of this, and yet through your post you are trying to create an impression that AfD is normal - perhaps this is to try and protect TBP and Nigel, but it is not a healthy thing to be doing.
Quite.https://politics.co.uk/blogs/2019/07/19/week-in-re...
The bit that I would hope some posters here would read carefully and reflect upon is here:
“But waiting for fascism is not about sitting at home with a checklist, contenting yourself that everything is fine until someone ticks every single box. It's about being vigilant about the type of political behaviour which leads to fascism.“
There are plenty of warning signs over the kind of messages being pushed out. One member of AfD has said people can be shot at the border.
The links have been posted, you must be aware of this, and yet through your post you are trying to create an impression that AfD is normal - perhaps this is to try and protect TBP and Nigel, but it is not a healthy thing to be doing.
It's odd because with the information I posted earlier I genuinely thought there would be some comments or enough there to cause people to have a few questions.
Apparently not though.
The information is there and people choose to turn a blind eye.
It's quite sickening.
Earthdweller said:
Reports in various press this morning of a number of EU countries reaching out to Boris independently of Brussels to avoid a no deal
Meanwhile Merkel has said that the draft agreement could be rewritten to effectively remove the backstop
The word is compromise apparently and some countries notably Germany Belgium France and Ireland will do what’s necessary to avoid a “no deal” Brexit
Maybe .. having someone who wants to leave is what needed after all
Meanwhile Merkel has said that the draft agreement could be rewritten to effectively remove the backstop
The word is compromise apparently and some countries notably Germany Belgium France and Ireland will do what’s necessary to avoid a “no deal” Brexit
Maybe .. having someone who wants to leave is what needed after all
Yep ... hopefully he will hold the line ...
amusingduck said:
Ultra-Brexiteers wouldn't exist without the democracy subverters
Which, ironically, is the same story here. I don't think you guys' strategy of "ignore the concerns and denounce the consequences" is going to work out particularly well
I think you're rather missing the point.Which, ironically, is the same story here. I don't think you guys' strategy of "ignore the concerns and denounce the consequences" is going to work out particularly well
It's quite possible to want to leave the EU, to be totally pissed off with the way our politicians have handled it, to want Farage to "save you", and to agree with everything he says about the EU whilst still thinking it's an error of judgement for him to be associated with the likes of the AfD.
Yet apparently that's too much.
All or nothing it seems.
That isn't critical thinking and it has nothing to do with "democracy" it's ignorance bordering on demagoguery.
citizensm1th said:
you lot are debating far right politics with the likes of powerstroke wtf did you think the result would be?
It was Tuna who was asking “what’s wrong with AfD”The oft trotted out excuse is “no one was listening, we had no one else to turn to”, as aduck above.
But it’s not a valid excuse. It does not justify supporting racist and xenophobic policies - deep down surely even the most hardened ultra can see this?
Maybe they can’t. You do wonder how people in 1930s Germany got on trying to challenge support for the NASDP. Presumably shouted down and told no one else was doing anything about the causes of Germany’s problems with foreigners etc.
Earthdweller said:
Reports in various press this morning of a number of EU countries reaching out to Boris independently of Brussels to avoid a no deal
Meanwhile Merkel has said that the draft agreement could be rewritten to effectively remove the backstop
The word is compromise apparently and some countries notably Germany Belgium France and Ireland will do what’s necessary to avoid a “no deal” Brexit
Maybe .. having someone who wants to leave is what needed after all
Quite, seems Ireland is now publicly admitting a no-deal scenario would turn the whole island into an economic wasteland. I wonder if they're getting concerned about where the next bail out is coming from. Meanwhile Merkel has said that the draft agreement could be rewritten to effectively remove the backstop
The word is compromise apparently and some countries notably Germany Belgium France and Ireland will do what’s necessary to avoid a “no deal” Brexit
Maybe .. having someone who wants to leave is what needed after all
CaptainSlow said:
Earthdweller said:
Reports in various press this morning of a number of EU countries reaching out to Boris independently of Brussels to avoid a no deal
Meanwhile Merkel has said that the draft agreement could be rewritten to effectively remove the backstop
The word is compromise apparently and some countries notably Germany Belgium France and Ireland will do what’s necessary to avoid a “no deal” Brexit
Maybe .. having someone who wants to leave is what needed after all
Quite, seems Ireland is now publicly admitting a no-deal scenario would turn the whole island into an economic wasteland. I wonder if they're getting concerned about where the next bail out is coming from. Meanwhile Merkel has said that the draft agreement could be rewritten to effectively remove the backstop
The word is compromise apparently and some countries notably Germany Belgium France and Ireland will do what’s necessary to avoid a “no deal” Brexit
Maybe .. having someone who wants to leave is what needed after all
Looks like business will be leading the politicians from now on ....Result .....
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: I think you're rather missing the point.
It's quite possible to want to leave the EU, to be totally pissed off with the way our politicians have handled it, to want Farage to "save you", and to agree with everything he says about the EU whilst still thinking it's an error of judgement for him to be associated with the likes of the AfD.
Yet apparently that's too much.
All or nothing it seems.
That isn't critical thinking and it has nothing to do with "democracy" it's just ignorance and demagoguery.
I'm sure that Germany, of all countries, would stop fascists from being elected. They haven't, so I'm happy to go with their judgement. It's quite possible to want to leave the EU, to be totally pissed off with the way our politicians have handled it, to want Farage to "save you", and to agree with everything he says about the EU whilst still thinking it's an error of judgement for him to be associated with the likes of the AfD.
Yet apparently that's too much.
All or nothing it seems.
That isn't critical thinking and it has nothing to do with "democracy" it's just ignorance and demagoguery.
All of the labels applied to AfD have been applied to Leavers repeatedly. Maybe it's no surprise that after years of labelling a group as racists/xenophobes/etc, they're not particularly bothered about another group that's labelled the same way by the same people?
amusingduck said:
ClaphamGT3 said:
Sickening and profoundly worrying. The end justifying any means outlook of the ultra-Brexiteers is more than the thin end of a wedge
Ultra-Brexiteers wouldn't exist without the democracy subverters Which, ironically, is the same story here. I don't think you guys' strategy of "ignore the concerns and denounce the consequences" is going to work out particularly well
One of the dismal realities of this whole situation is that fatuous sound bites like "will of the people" have been latched onto by the stupid and the gullible and are now treated as articles of faith rather than the transient, meaningless slogan that they were and given the same or greater status by the easily influenced as 800 years of established constitutional principle
DeepEnd said:
citizensm1th said:
you lot are debating far right politics with the likes of powerstroke wtf did you think the result would be?
It was Tuna who was asking “what’s wrong with AfD”The oft trotted out excuse is “no one was listening, we had no one else to turn to”, as aduck above.
But it’s not a valid excuse. It does not justify supporting racist and xenophobic policies - deep down surely even the most hardened ultra can see this?
Maybe they can’t. You do wonder how people in 1930s Germany got on trying to challenge support for the NASDP. Presumably shouted down and told no one else was doing anything about the causes of Germany’s problems with foreigners etc.
personally i think they are both just trolling, posting contrary views to gain some kind of attention that they must be lacking in other parts of their lives.
but hey ho carry on as you were
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