How do we think EU negotiations will go? (Vol 11)
Discussion
gooner1 said:
This John Major Clappy?
https://order-order.com/2019/07/10/john-major-pror...
I have no doubt whatsoever that you and a large proportion of Remainers,
would prorogue parliament in an instant if it would overturn the democratic decision
to leave the EU. Whatever the final negotiations look like.
PM's prorogue Parliament every year. If you follow the link in the article to parliamentary question you will see there is no evidence JM prorgued Parliament improperly. In the link he denied he was was doing so to stop the publication. He might have been lying to Parliament or Guido could be creating facts. https://order-order.com/2019/07/10/john-major-pror...
I have no doubt whatsoever that you and a large proportion of Remainers,
would prorogue parliament in an instant if it would overturn the democratic decision
to leave the EU. Whatever the final negotiations look like.
The issue with BJ proroguing Parliament is that its not his right it the right of the Queen. If he choose to advise her to do so it would put the Queen in a political position no monarch has faced in modern times.
b
hstewie said:
hstewie said:Gilbertron said:
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: As for the AfD here's their manifesto in English
https://www.afd.de/wp-content/uploads/sites/111/20...
You'll notice quite a few references to specific anti-Islamic policies.
6/128... Which one do find particularly egregious?https://www.afd.de/wp-content/uploads/sites/111/20...
You'll notice quite a few references to specific anti-Islamic policies.
The point here isn't so much about the AfD it's why anyone who wants to leave the EU would feel the need to align themselves with people who hold that kind of sentiment.
That kind of thing did for UKIP over here along with some other things.
are you "pro" islam ? or more likely, like myself happy for people to practice any religion they like ,as long as it has no physical impact on others that don't have any interest in religion?
ClaphamGT3 said:
If you cannot get that setting the Government on a collision course with parliament is a bad thing, then this country is in an even more parlous state than I imagined
i think alfie might be wrong, looks like you are starting to get it. though i fear like many others in a particular bubble, just a bit too late.DeepEnd said:
The politics.co.uk article is aiming at your argument about not seeing anything worrying in far right messaging.
You seem to expect the manifestos to spell out really bad things - so you can easily think “ah - Baddies”, but surely you can understand it is far more subtle than this.
In considering the linked manifesto for AfD, what about this sentence :
“Non-citizens may live in Germany, but there will be special laws for foreigners living in Germany.”
Is this OK for you?
would you like to post the entire section that came from ,or would that not support whatever point you are trying to make ? i will get to it eventually as i read through the entire manifesto. have you read it all yet ?You seem to expect the manifestos to spell out really bad things - so you can easily think “ah - Baddies”, but surely you can understand it is far more subtle than this.
In considering the linked manifesto for AfD, what about this sentence :
“Non-citizens may live in Germany, but there will be special laws for foreigners living in Germany.”
Is this OK for you?
Welshbeef said:
sunbeam alpine said:
powerstroke said:
CaptainSlow said:
Earthdweller said:
Reports in various press this morning of a number of EU countries reaching out to Boris independently of Brussels to avoid a no deal
Meanwhile Merkel has said that the draft agreement could be rewritten to effectively remove the backstop
The word is compromise apparently and some countries notably Germany Belgium France and Ireland will do what’s necessary to avoid a “no deal” Brexit
Maybe .. having someone who wants to leave is what needed after all
Quite, seems Ireland is now publicly admitting a no-deal scenario would turn the whole island into an economic wasteland. I wonder if they're getting concerned about where the next bail out is coming from. Meanwhile Merkel has said that the draft agreement could be rewritten to effectively remove the backstop
The word is compromise apparently and some countries notably Germany Belgium France and Ireland will do what’s necessary to avoid a “no deal” Brexit
Maybe .. having someone who wants to leave is what needed after all
Looks like business will be leading the politicians from now on ....Result .....
I think that people who are reading a change in the EU/ member states position into it are reading what they want to read.
bhstewie said:
hstewie said:gooner1 said:
Exactly, I have said I would read the link BS posted, or any other.
But this will occur when I decide, not when some jumped up posters on a forum
dictate I should.
Nobody's dictated anything to you.But this will occur when I decide, not when some jumped up posters on a forum
dictate I should.
I posted some links having been asked what the issues were with the AfD and expressed surprise that nobody seems to have read them.
]
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: Quite.
It's odd because with the information I posted earlier I genuinely thought there would be some comments or enough there to cause people to have a few questions.
Apparently not though.
The information is there and people choose to turn a blind eye.
It's quite sickening.
IIt's odd because with the information I posted earlier I genuinely thought there would be some comments or enough there to cause people to have a few questions.
Apparently not though.
The information is there and people choose to turn a blind eye.
It's quite sickening.
Brooking10 said:
What does the bubble look like then squire ?
different to the bubble i live in, probably different to the bubble you live in as well. his bubble has less people with more money and influence than mine. my bubble has more people and less money and influence than his, but importantly more votes.gizlaroc said:
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: I mean policies that have ugly overtones.
It isn't "swinging people from lamp posts" or "brown shirts dragging people from houses" but it all starts somewhere, and along the way people will make excuses for it or turn a blind eye.
I think people would be less forgiving if it was a Labour manifesto and they had pages and policies dedicated to singling out Jews.
It all starts somewhere? It isn't "swinging people from lamp posts" or "brown shirts dragging people from houses" but it all starts somewhere, and along the way people will make excuses for it or turn a blind eye.
I think people would be less forgiving if it was a Labour manifesto and they had pages and policies dedicated to singling out Jews.
What exactly starts somewhere?
Many people have concerns when it comes to Islam, there are many areas of Islamic belief that I don't think work with our western values and liberalism....not yet anyway. That may change in years to come of course. But devout Muslims coming from Somalia, Iraq and Syria suddenly be open to true equality? I doubt it.
What we will probably see is those that grow up in places like the UK becoming the voice of the Muslim people, they will get more of a voice and with that shot down the extreme views we see in some of the Islamic nations around the globe.
I don't like Islam, but that doesn't mean I don't like Muslims, my best mate who has been my best mate since we were at school is a Muslim.
But it is the same way I don't like devout Christians, Catholics especially are a proper nasty bunch.
It is OK to criticise Islam, it is OK to talk about concerns, it is also OK to say if you move to a country you have to respect those whose country it is.
Would you go to Iraq and not respect their ways?
While people just shout racist all the while we are creating this frustration, and until we speak openly with each other we will never move forward.
Jews vs Muslims?
The fear of Islam is the belief Islam wants to be the only religion.
We have seen mainly Christian Middle East become mainly Muslim, and people are concerned that this will happen across the EU and the globe.
The fear of the Jews is based on the fact that many think the Jews have the whole world on a string like puppets controlling the banks, the media and everything that controls our lives. They are the capitalist elite and must be brought down.
The reality is that the globe will probably become an Islamic land, but it will happen so slowly that no one really notices or cares.
And I'm sure the large Jewish families probably do control so much of how our lives are lived out, but does that really matter, if anything changed would it be for the better?
People are genuinely scared about where they see the future. You can't dismiss those fears be calling then racist. You have to answer those fears.
DeepEnd said:
Gilbertron said:
DeepEnd said:
In considering the linked manifesto for AfD, what about this sentence :
“Non-citizens may live in Germany, but there will be special laws for foreigners living in Germany.”
Is this OK for you?
Like these laws for foreigners living in Germany?“Non-citizens may live in Germany, but there will be special laws for foreigners living in Germany.”
Is this OK for you?
https://www.sachsen.de/en/1454.htm
It’s from a NASDP manifesto in the 1920s.
There is nothing sinister about this, it is the norm. What is sinister is having policies which persecute people for being different, such as being from the Jewish faith, as was the case in Nazi Germany.
If you can't resolve those differences then you are a bit on the thick side.
wc98 said:
i am only up to page 14 but i will read all of it. have you ? up until now i have read nothing i disagree with and a lot to like.i haven't read the section on islam yet but there are many aspects of islam , catholicism,protestantism and various other religions i am "anti".
are you "pro" islam ? or more likely, like myself happy for people to practice any religion they like ,as long as it has no physical impact on others that don't have any interest in religion?
No I haven't and I've no intention of doing so.are you "pro" islam ? or more likely, like myself happy for people to practice any religion they like ,as long as it has no physical impact on others that don't have any interest in religion?
I have no doubt there will be some parts of it that will be entirely sensible and that I'd agree with.
But you don't need to read it all to believe that if a party has a section in their manifesto singling out a religious group it almost certainly won't be done in a positive way to benefit that group.
As I said, if it was Labour doing it to Jews people would be queueing up to condemn them.
Brooking10 said:
Sometimes you just have to do what you just have to do 
Personally I stand to do well out of the immediate chaos any Brexit Deal, and especially a No Deal is going to to cause and yet I genuinely see it as the worst possible option for our country and future prosperity.
Is this "chaos" guaranteed?Personally I stand to do well out of the immediate chaos any Brexit Deal, and especially a No Deal is going to to cause and yet I genuinely see it as the worst possible option for our country and future prosperity.
Do you really think this? If so why?
Two industries decimated
Pork and booze.
Culture destroyed
No thank you. Happy for anyone to believe whatever they like provided they do not drive it onto others.
The reality is that the globe will probably become an Islamic land, but it will happen so slowly that no one really notices or cares.
Two industries decimated
Pork and booze.
Culture destroyed
No thank you. Happy for anyone to believe whatever they like provided they do not drive it onto others.
The reality is that the globe will probably become an Islamic land, but it will happen so slowly that no one really notices or cares.
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: No I haven't and I've no intention of doing so.
I have no doubt there will be some parts of it that will be entirely sensible and that I'd agree with.
But you don't need to read it all to believe that if a party has a section in their manifesto singling out a religious group it almost certainly won't be done in a positive way to benefit that group.
As I said, if it was Labour doing it to Jews people would be queueing up to condemn them.
have you read that particular section ? can you highlight the parts that concern you ? i am quite happy to queue up to condemn anyone that wants to single out people for different treatment to any others based purely on their religious beliefs (opposed to specific actions that may impact others negatively) if that's what they are doing. I have no doubt there will be some parts of it that will be entirely sensible and that I'd agree with.
But you don't need to read it all to believe that if a party has a section in their manifesto singling out a religious group it almost certainly won't be done in a positive way to benefit that group.
As I said, if it was Labour doing it to Jews people would be queueing up to condemn them.
Down and out said:
Brooking10 said:
Sometimes you just have to do what you just have to do
Personally I stand to do well out of the immediate chaos any Brexit Deal, and especially a No Deal is going to to cause and yet I genuinely see it as the worst possible option for our country and future prosperity.
xPersonally I stand to do well out of the immediate chaos any Brexit Deal, and especially a No Deal is going to to cause and yet I genuinely see it as the worst possible option for our country and future prosperity.
Is this "chaos" guaranteed?
No deal will cause a heightened state of commercial distress without doubt the fact that the world’s leading financial institutions are working to an assumption of near parity gbp vs usd is a fairly strong indicator.
The only significant variable is how long it will take to adjust.
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff