How do we think EU negotiations will go? (Vol 11)
Discussion
Eddie Mair did a phone in yesterday where he asked why can't politicians simply be honest with the public on Brexit.
Yellowhammer and the report/dossier was mentioned.
His point being it's basically just bulls
t politics on either side of the debate where either the sky is falling in or the government is spending billions of pounds to mitigate "a few bumps in the road".
If it's been written there's a reason so why can't politicians simply be honest? Reasons range from they don't want egg on their face to that it's simple the state politics has got to in this country where scoring points and simply calling your opponent a liar is more important than the national interest.
Yellowhammer and the report/dossier was mentioned.
His point being it's basically just bulls
t politics on either side of the debate where either the sky is falling in or the government is spending billions of pounds to mitigate "a few bumps in the road".If it's been written there's a reason so why can't politicians simply be honest? Reasons range from they don't want egg on their face to that it's simple the state politics has got to in this country where scoring points and simply calling your opponent a liar is more important than the national interest.
Mr Penfold said:
It doesn't matter to us diabetics as if we can't eat due to food shortages we wont need insulin
Another Brexit bonus on the dietary front for all of us, not just the diabetics - helps tackle the obesity crisis. We'll all live decades longer and the NHS won't need all those EU professionals (even though they'll still be able to come here) as nobody will need to go to hospital.Happy days (or it would be if the BBC weren't in misery overdrive).
Murph7355 said:
Another Brexit bonus on the dietary front for all of us, not just the diabetics - helps tackle the obesity crisis. We'll all live decades longer and the NHS won't need all those EU professionals (even though they'll still be able to come here) as nobody will need to go to hospital.
Happy days (or it would be if the BBC weren't in misery overdrive).
Or well know lefty propaganda outfit The Sunday Times Happy days (or it would be if the BBC weren't in misery overdrive).
I’m currently enjoying the hypocrisy of the various leave camps ramping up the “it’s only scenario planning calm down” and juxtaposing it with “its disgusting this isn’t his job to spread fear” when the gov, of the BOE released his own clearly marked scenario plans
Edited by anonymous-user on Tuesday 20th August 08:02
jsf said:
Nickgnome said:
Surely as a successful single guy, team manager or some such thing you would have put in place insurance against inability to work, assuming your company did not provide it.
Well you can appreciate all you want but it seems you will never know.
I had plenty of savings, so didn't starve. Well you can appreciate all you want but it seems you will never know.
hutchst said:
Nickgnome said:
I’ve just read up on it. At best he is being disingenuous. Spanish companies buy British registered vessels, which is equivalent to buying a British company and the the British government try to legislate away their trade.
Hardly surprising the ECJ Ruled against the UK. We were lucky it wasn’t the yanks suing us.
You are wrong again, unsurprisingly. They already owned the boats in Spain. The Spanish fishing boat owners set up a shell company in the UK wholly owned by them. They then re-registered their Spanish boats to their new British company, sailed them to British waters, but still based and operating from their same home Spanish ports, and helped themselves to the UK quota. Neither the boats nor the fish ever came near a British port. But the British fleet was stuck in port because the UK quota had already been hoovered up by Spaiin.Hardly surprising the ECJ Ruled against the UK. We were lucky it wasn’t the yanks suing us.
The UK would have had no objection to those same boats fishing in British waters under their original Spanish flags, and catching fish deducted from the quota allocated to Spain, leaving the UK quota for genuine British boats.
The question was what UK industry has ever been adversely affected by being a member of the EU, and that is one example. The subsequent suggestion that the UK voluntarily gave its quota away is wrong.
Edited by hutchst on Tuesday 20th August 05:42
Brilliant article in the Guardian Nationalism in England is not just a rightwing nostalgia trip
"Many English-identifying voters want left-of-centre policies on the economy, public ownership, redistribution and the welfare state, but progressives’ reluctance to engage with their English agenda has left them in the hands of Brexiteers of one shade or another. Promises of more policing, NHS spending and immigration controls, as Brexit looms, suggest that Johnson and his adviser Dominic Cummings know which buttons to press. But the Brexiteer-English alliance is by no means secure. Leaving aside the difficulty of actually delivering, the inescapable logic of Brexit is to drive global market forces ever more deeply into the very communities desperate for protection from them.
It’s late in the day, but “remain and reform” campaigners could acknowledge that England’s governance needs every bit as much reform as that of the EU."
"Many English-identifying voters want left-of-centre policies on the economy, public ownership, redistribution and the welfare state, but progressives’ reluctance to engage with their English agenda has left them in the hands of Brexiteers of one shade or another. Promises of more policing, NHS spending and immigration controls, as Brexit looms, suggest that Johnson and his adviser Dominic Cummings know which buttons to press. But the Brexiteer-English alliance is by no means secure. Leaving aside the difficulty of actually delivering, the inescapable logic of Brexit is to drive global market forces ever more deeply into the very communities desperate for protection from them.
It’s late in the day, but “remain and reform” campaigners could acknowledge that England’s governance needs every bit as much reform as that of the EU."
Mr Penfold said:
bhstewie said:
hstewie said:mike9009 said:
I must admit I (foolishly) stockpiled a little insulin around the end of March this year. And I will also stockpile a little come October. I would be in serious trouble after a couple of days without it and most of the insulin comes from the EU.
Matt Hancock does not fill me with confidence to avoid it......
Just for info the head of Novo Nordisk in the UK was on the news this morning and mentioned something about them stockpiling 18 weeks worth.Matt Hancock does not fill me with confidence to avoid it......
Hope that's of some reassurance.
Carl_Manchester said:
my mother’s NHS insulin comes from Belgium, on august 12th, the CEO of the top international drug distributor in Belgium is not warning of a problem, i am sure if there is going to be a problem specifically with the likes of insulin that a waiver will be in place.
If there are jams at the ports, it is unclear if a waiver will help.I’d assumed this was the sort of thing the Grayling ferries were for - so a dedicated reliable logistics solution with carefully managed cargo could “always get through” - so to speak.
DeepEnd said:
Carl_Manchester said:
my mother’s NHS insulin comes from Belgium, on august 12th, the CEO of the top international drug distributor in Belgium is not warning of a problem, i am sure if there is going to be a problem specifically with the likes of insulin that a waiver will be in place.
If there are jams at the ports, it is unclear if a waiver will help.I’d assumed this was the sort of thing the Grayling ferries were for - so a dedicated reliable logistics solution with carefully managed cargo could “always get through” - so to speak.
Anyway, in extremis, a quick refrigerated container from Rotterdam to Tilbury would be through customs in the time it takes a computer to process the data.
loafer123 said:
DeepEnd said:
Carl_Manchester said:
my mother’s NHS insulin comes from Belgium, on august 12th, the CEO of the top international drug distributor in Belgium is not warning of a problem, i am sure if there is going to be a problem specifically with the likes of insulin that a waiver will be in place.
If there are jams at the ports, it is unclear if a waiver will help.I’d assumed this was the sort of thing the Grayling ferries were for - so a dedicated reliable logistics solution with carefully managed cargo could “always get through” - so to speak.
Anyway, in extremis, a quick refrigerated container from Rotterdam to Tilbury would be through customs in the time it takes a computer to process the data.
4 hours and it'd achieve ex works in Belgium through Cargo at Heathrow (other airports are available) if there was a pressing need.
Sway said:
loafer123 said:
DeepEnd said:
Carl_Manchester said:
my mother’s NHS insulin comes from Belgium, on august 12th, the CEO of the top international drug distributor in Belgium is not warning of a problem, i am sure if there is going to be a problem specifically with the likes of insulin that a waiver will be in place.
If there are jams at the ports, it is unclear if a waiver will help.I’d assumed this was the sort of thing the Grayling ferries were for - so a dedicated reliable logistics solution with carefully managed cargo could “always get through” - so to speak.
Anyway, in extremis, a quick refrigerated container from Rotterdam to Tilbury would be through customs in the time it takes a computer to process the data.
4 hours and it'd achieve ex works in Belgium through Cargo at Heathrow (other airports are available) if there was a pressing need.
hutchst said:
You are wrong again, unsurprisingly. They already owned the boats in Spain. The Spanish fishing boat owners set up a shell company in the UK wholly owned by them. They then re-registered their Spanish boats to their new British company, sailed them to British waters, but still based and operating from their same home Spanish ports, and helped themselves to the UK quota. Neither the boats nor the fish ever came near a British port. But the British fleet was stuck in port because the UK quota had already been hoovered up by Spaiin.
The UK would have had no objection to those same boats fishing in British waters under their original Spanish flags, and catching fish deducted from the quota allocated to Spain, leaving the UK quota for genuine British boats.
The question was what UK industry has ever been adversely affected by being a member of the EU, and that is one example. The subsequent suggestion that the UK voluntarily gave its quota away is wrong.
You do not seem to understand how the quota system works. To fish in UK waters the EU fishermen will have bought quota from UK fishermen. The UK would have had no objection to those same boats fishing in British waters under their original Spanish flags, and catching fish deducted from the quota allocated to Spain, leaving the UK quota for genuine British boats.
The question was what UK industry has ever been adversely affected by being a member of the EU, and that is one example. The subsequent suggestion that the UK voluntarily gave its quota away is wrong.
Edited by hutchst on Tuesday 20th August 05:42
UK fishermen did well out of the CFP. Many made a lot of money and did not have the inconvience of having to go fishing.
Brexiters seem to think the UK can just take back the quota. That's not going to happen.
Mrr T said:
You do not seem to understand how the quota system works. To fish in UK waters the EU fishermen will have bought quota from UK fishermen.
UK fishermen did well out of the CFP. Many made a lot of money and did not have the inconvience of having to go fishing.
Brexiters seem to think the UK can just take back the quota. That's not going to happen.
What will the quota be in? The CFP won’t exist in law any more...UK fishermen did well out of the CFP. Many made a lot of money and did not have the inconvience of having to go fishing.
Brexiters seem to think the UK can just take back the quota. That's not going to happen.
loafer123 said:
Mrr T said:
You do not seem to understand how the quota system works. To fish in UK waters the EU fishermen will have bought quota from UK fishermen.
UK fishermen did well out of the CFP. Many made a lot of money and did not have the inconvience of having to go fishing.
Brexiters seem to think the UK can just take back the quota. That's not going to happen.
What will the quota be in? The CFP won’t exist in law any more...UK fishermen did well out of the CFP. Many made a lot of money and did not have the inconvience of having to go fishing.
Brexiters seem to think the UK can just take back the quota. That's not going to happen.
loafer123 said:
Sway said:
loafer123 said:
DeepEnd said:
Carl_Manchester said:
my mother’s NHS insulin comes from Belgium, on august 12th, the CEO of the top international drug distributor in Belgium is not warning of a problem, i am sure if there is going to be a problem specifically with the likes of insulin that a waiver will be in place.
If there are jams at the ports, it is unclear if a waiver will help.I’d assumed this was the sort of thing the Grayling ferries were for - so a dedicated reliable logistics solution with carefully managed cargo could “always get through” - so to speak.
Anyway, in extremis, a quick refrigerated container from Rotterdam to Tilbury would be through customs in the time it takes a computer to process the data.
4 hours and it'd achieve ex works in Belgium through Cargo at Heathrow (other airports are available) if there was a pressing need.
loafer123 said:
Mrr T said:
You do not seem to understand how the quota system works. To fish in UK waters the EU fishermen will have bought quota from UK fishermen.
UK fishermen did well out of the CFP. Many made a lot of money and did not have the inconvience of having to go fishing.
Brexiters seem to think the UK can just take back the quota. That's not going to happen.
What will the quota be in? The CFP won’t exist in law any more...UK fishermen did well out of the CFP. Many made a lot of money and did not have the inconvience of having to go fishing.
Brexiters seem to think the UK can just take back the quota. That's not going to happen.
See Grayling/ferries/Eurotunnel.
£33m pay off for his incompetence.
It is all down to UK govt decisions to allow quota sales - the EU did not force them to let us let our fishermen sell them for profit.
What about the fishermen that made a quick buck selling the quota - will these stand to benefit again when the sold quotas are “illegally” / repatriated?
DeepEnd said:
But the quota owners will still sue the UK if they tear them up.
See Grayling/ferries/Eurotunnel.
£33m pay off for his incompetence.
It is all down to UK govt decisions to allow quota sales - the EU did not force them to let us let our fishermen sell them for profit.
What about the fishermen that made a quick buck selling the quota - will these stand to benefit again when the sold quotas are “illegally” / repatriated?
Sue them for what? The risk of us leaving the EU and the CFP was always there as a commercial risk. It was all in the pricing. That is the real world...risk and reward.See Grayling/ferries/Eurotunnel.
£33m pay off for his incompetence.
It is all down to UK govt decisions to allow quota sales - the EU did not force them to let us let our fishermen sell them for profit.
What about the fishermen that made a quick buck selling the quota - will these stand to benefit again when the sold quotas are “illegally” / repatriated?
Carl_Manchester said:
my mother’s NHS insulin comes from Belgium, on august 12th, the CEO of the top international drug distributor in Belgium is not warning of a problem, i am sure if there is going to be a problem specifically with the likes of insulin that a waiver will be in place.
As a truck driver who does pharmaceuticals for a firm that runs to Belgium all the time - I wouldn't worry about anything directly after Brexit day. We have been bringing in huge amounts to cover any problems. And being totally honest if there are big problems then medicines will be top of the list for special treatment and urgency.
Other stuff not so much. Car parts will be huge. Some foods will be a problem. And raw drugs might take a lot longer and cause a pain. It will cause problems but directly getting emergency medicines wont happen for a good while if ever.
People who dont drive through the ports have no idea how it works. Add one minute to each truck and you have an explosion of problems. The volumes are astronomical. If a truck is over 30 mins late it will miss its spot and can be stood for hours. Which knocks onto the next one. And the next one. And even the trailers who are taking what you are delivering.
We shall have to see. But it wont be as pretty as most on here assume.
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