How do we think EU negotiations will go? (Vol 11)
Discussion
crankedup said:
Banjo sings ‘do yer wanna be in my gang my gang’ ? F*ck no thanks, I’m off to the jazz club for some proper music enjoyment 
Jazz, Crankie is four guys on one stage playing four different songs.in four different keys, at four different tempos, enjoying themselves far more than the twenty people watching them.Elysium said:
Otis Criblecoblis said:
Elysium said:
I can't see any signs of blind rage?
All I see is one person, who says he thought no-deal might happen, but voted to leave anyway. One person, out of 17m, who is happy to assume everyone else felt the same as him, in order to get what he wants.
In which case, any leave voters who made their choice based on the perfectly reasonable assumption that the UK Govt would not be entirely incompetent are s
t out of luck.
No-deal is defeatist at the best of times, but when its being promoted by the people who told the voters that a deal with be easy, then it's also a lie and a con trick.
Lets try the same simple question with you.All I see is one person, who says he thought no-deal might happen, but voted to leave anyway. One person, out of 17m, who is happy to assume everyone else felt the same as him, in order to get what he wants.
In which case, any leave voters who made their choice based on the perfectly reasonable assumption that the UK Govt would not be entirely incompetent are s
t out of luck.No-deal is defeatist at the best of times, but when its being promoted by the people who told the voters that a deal with be easy, then it's also a lie and a con trick.
When you went to the polls that day, what ruled no deal out ?
But you are going to keep ignoring that simple answer and ask the same inane question over and over again in the belief that it constitutes intelligent debate.
There was really only two options; we either got a deal or we didn't. When dolts like the Banjo continue to deny that there was only a deal option, that intellectually weak.
Your other assertion that the only mandate was to leave on a decent deal, ( God knows how you's define decent btw ) also falls flat as the only words on the ballot paper were to leave. When you add in Remainers forgot to caveat the vote and rule out no deal, it does kinda look then if the only way to fulfill the simple wording of the ballot paper and to leave, then no deal may be the last option mandated by the vote.
If your claim had any accuracy, then it would have said that only the ballot paper. It didn't .
Elysium said:
So we get to the nub of it. You realise that leave voters have been conned and you don't care.
You should!
I’m not sure they have been conned. If there are leave voters who didn’t examine all the various statements being made at the time, actually believed all that the Leave campaign said and were drawn to a conclusion that a no deal Brexit was not possible then yes, they may possibly feel conned and lied to. That just means they weren’t paying much attention at the time which means they must accept some responsibility for it. However, that still doesn’t mean no deal was not a viable option at the time of the referendum.You should!
Do I care? Not much. There is nothing I can do to change the past, what is done is done. I do not dwell on the past unlike you as that is the road to bitter and twistedness, the road I believe you, and others, are on. Rather, I look to the future and how to make the best of whatever life throws at me.
Should I care? Yes, I care a lot about the current shower of s
t we have residing in Parliament on all sides of the issue. I can’t do much about it but educate myself such that when I next wield my vote I do it for good reason taking into account my view of the political parties on offer, their leadership, the local candidate, their policies and their track record.You should bone up on Rheinhold Niebuhr’s approach to life.
banjowilly said:
crankedup said:
Banjo sings ‘do yer wanna be in my gang my gang’ ? F*ck no thanks, I’m off to the jazz club for some proper music enjoyment
Jazz, Crankie is four guys on one stage playing four different songs.in four different keys, at four different tempos, enjoying themselves far more than the twenty people watching them.You care so little Garvin, that we're on vol 3 of your magnum opus on this. The hypocrisy you helpfully highlight is the prior insistence that you listened to remain arguments & voted leave anyway & claim that constitutes a mandate for no deal.
As has been pointed out exhaustively, Brexit is an abject failure on every intellectual level. Leave plans collapse under any scrutiny & so the only way this can be realised is by ramming it through without agreement & in turn, the only way that can be justified is by the likes of you insisting you voted for it all along.
Given Johnson's 'million to one' has predictably turned into seeking legal advice on closing Parliament for five weeks in September, the moral bankruptcy of a project advertised as restoring the hegemony of our Parliament is so enormously obvious to anyone with eyes & a heartbeat that it's no wonder you have to deny ever more loudly you ticked the box in expectation of it.
As has been pointed out exhaustively, Brexit is an abject failure on every intellectual level. Leave plans collapse under any scrutiny & so the only way this can be realised is by ramming it through without agreement & in turn, the only way that can be justified is by the likes of you insisting you voted for it all along.
Given Johnson's 'million to one' has predictably turned into seeking legal advice on closing Parliament for five weeks in September, the moral bankruptcy of a project advertised as restoring the hegemony of our Parliament is so enormously obvious to anyone with eyes & a heartbeat that it's no wonder you have to deny ever more loudly you ticked the box in expectation of it.
banjowilly said:
You care so little Garvin, that we're on vol 3 of your magnum opus on this. The hypocrisy you helpfully highlight is the prior insistence that you listened to remain arguments & voted leave anyway & claim that constitutes a mandate for no deal.
As has been pointed out exhaustively, Brexit is an abject failure on every intellectual level. Leave plans collapse under any scrutiny & so the only way this can be realised is by ramming it through without agreement & in turn, the only way that can be justified is by the likes of you insisting you voted for it all along.
Given Johnson's 'million to one' has predictably turned into seeking legal advice on closing Parliament for five weeks in September, the moral bankruptcy of a project advertised as restoring the hegemony of our Parliament is so enormously obvious to anyone with eyes & a heartbeat that it's no wonder you have to deny ever more loudly you ticked the box in expectation of it.
Give it up Banjoboy, your feeble arguments have been well and truly trashed and just your whining butt hurt remains. Suck it up loser.As has been pointed out exhaustively, Brexit is an abject failure on every intellectual level. Leave plans collapse under any scrutiny & so the only way this can be realised is by ramming it through without agreement & in turn, the only way that can be justified is by the likes of you insisting you voted for it all along.
Given Johnson's 'million to one' has predictably turned into seeking legal advice on closing Parliament for five weeks in September, the moral bankruptcy of a project advertised as restoring the hegemony of our Parliament is so enormously obvious to anyone with eyes & a heartbeat that it's no wonder you have to deny ever more loudly you ticked the box in expectation of it.
Elysium said:
Otis Criblecoblis said:
Elysium said:
I can't see any signs of blind rage?
All I see is one person, who says he thought no-deal might happen, but voted to leave anyway. One person, out of 17m, who is happy to assume everyone else felt the same as him, in order to get what he wants.
In which case, any leave voters who made their choice based on the perfectly reasonable assumption that the UK Govt would not be entirely incompetent are st out of luck.
No-deal is defeatist at the best of times, but when its being promoted by the people who told the voters that a deal with be easy, then it's also a lie and a con trick.
Lets try the same simple question with you.All I see is one person, who says he thought no-deal might happen, but voted to leave anyway. One person, out of 17m, who is happy to assume everyone else felt the same as him, in order to get what he wants.
In which case, any leave voters who made their choice based on the perfectly reasonable assumption that the UK Govt would not be entirely incompetent are s
t out of luck.No-deal is defeatist at the best of times, but when its being promoted by the people who told the voters that a deal with be easy, then it's also a lie and a con trick.
When you went to the polls that day, what ruled no deal out ?
But you are going to keep ignoring that simple answer and ask the same inane question over and over again in the belief that it constitutes intelligent debate.
If Parliament accepted May's Deal, would you be arguing that there was no mandate for that, since that was completely unforeseen pre-vote?
Garvin said:
Give it up Banjoboy, your feeble arguments have been well and truly trashed and just your whining butt hurt remains. Suck it up loser.
I’m struggling with you how can’t (or more probably won’t) comprehend the underlying point Banjo is making here and resorting to triumphalist playground talk.There’s no mandate for No Deal because thanks to idiot Cameron there’s no mandate for any structure of departure merely the overarching concept of exit itself.
That we voted to leave is the simplest of truisms.
Everything thereafter is speculation, preference, and non-ratified assumption.
Elysium said:
Otis Criblecoblis said:
Elysium said:
I can't see any signs of blind rage?
All I see is one person, who says he thought no-deal might happen, but voted to leave anyway. One person, out of 17m, who is happy to assume everyone else felt the same as him, in order to get what he wants.
In which case, any leave voters who made their choice based on the perfectly reasonable assumption that the UK Govt would not be entirely incompetent are st out of luck.
No-deal is defeatist at the best of times, but when its being promoted by the people who told the voters that a deal with be easy, then it's also a lie and a con trick.
Lets try the same simple question with you.All I see is one person, who says he thought no-deal might happen, but voted to leave anyway. One person, out of 17m, who is happy to assume everyone else felt the same as him, in order to get what he wants.
In which case, any leave voters who made their choice based on the perfectly reasonable assumption that the UK Govt would not be entirely incompetent are s
t out of luck.No-deal is defeatist at the best of times, but when its being promoted by the people who told the voters that a deal with be easy, then it's also a lie and a con trick.
When you went to the polls that day, what ruled no deal out ?
But you are going to keep ignoring that simple answer and ask the same inane question over and over again in the belief that it constitutes intelligent debate.
I don’t actually blame those who voted leave. There are always people in society who are easily led and the leave campaign did a great job of playing to those people’s fears and emotions. I do entirely blame the liars and charlatans who peddled the untruths. I probably should feel some pleasure that those mendacious and self-interested individuals are now in Government and will now be held to account for their deceits but, in reality, I am more sorrowful that the whole country will suffer - and, as always, the most vulnerable most of all - because these unprincipaled individuals incited the credulous and the scared to burn their own house down.
ClaphamGT3 said:
Let’s set this out really clearly. In the run-up to the referendum the remain campaign said that securing a deal with the EU would be difficult, time consuming and couldn’t be guaranteed. The leave campaign said that it would be quick and easy and that, in any event, the risks of leaving without a deal were being overstated. It is those who spoke for remain who are being proved right and it is those who voted for remain who are being proved to be the more responsible voters.
I don’t actually blame those who voted leave. There are always people in society who are easily led and the leave campaign did a great job of playing to those people’s fears and emotions. I do entirely blame the liars and charlatans who peddled the untruths. I probably should feel some pleasure that those mendacious and self-interested individuals are now in Government and will now be held to account for their deceits but, in reality, I am more sorrowful that the whole country will suffer - and, as always, the most vulnerable most of all - because these unprincipaled individuals incited the credulous and the scared to burn their own house down.
You seem to struggle with peoples ability to reason. FYI, I threw away my "nose ring" many many moons ago when I grew up and accepted life was my choice.I don’t actually blame those who voted leave. There are always people in society who are easily led and the leave campaign did a great job of playing to those people’s fears and emotions. I do entirely blame the liars and charlatans who peddled the untruths. I probably should feel some pleasure that those mendacious and self-interested individuals are now in Government and will now be held to account for their deceits but, in reality, I am more sorrowful that the whole country will suffer - and, as always, the most vulnerable most of all - because these unprincipaled individuals incited the credulous and the scared to burn their own house down.
EVERY Politician is a unprincipled individual, it is the very nature of the beast.
Garvin said:
Give it up Banjoboy, your feeble arguments have been well and truly trashed and just your whining butt hurt remains. Suck it up loser.
State of this post.It is banjoboy and Clapham amongst others who are talking reasoned common sense.
These “winners” are certainly angry. Perhaps they are angry as they can’t quite put their finger on what they’ve won. The destruction of parliamentary sovereignty seems on the cards today, though that could just be a Cummings “make us look serious to the foreigners” stunt.
banjowilly said:
crankedup said:
Banjo sings ‘do yer wanna be in my gang my gang’ ? F*ck no thanks, I’m off to the jazz club for some proper music enjoyment
Jazz, Crankie is four guys on one stage playing four different songs.in four different keys, at four different tempos, enjoying themselves far more than the twenty people watching them.
And yet survived, admired and inspired countless musicians from all over the World for over a century. Currently making another popular comeback as a new audience of young people cotton on
to this music genres. (I know your pulling my leg though
)ClaphamGT3 said:
Elysium said:
Otis Criblecoblis said:
Elysium said:
I can't see any signs of blind rage?
All I see is one person, who says he thought no-deal might happen, but voted to leave anyway. One person, out of 17m, who is happy to assume everyone else felt the same as him, in order to get what he wants.
In which case, any leave voters who made their choice based on the perfectly reasonable assumption that the UK Govt would not be entirely incompetent are st out of luck.
No-deal is defeatist at the best of times, but when its being promoted by the people who told the voters that a deal with be easy, then it's also a lie and a con trick.
Lets try the same simple question with you.All I see is one person, who says he thought no-deal might happen, but voted to leave anyway. One person, out of 17m, who is happy to assume everyone else felt the same as him, in order to get what he wants.
In which case, any leave voters who made their choice based on the perfectly reasonable assumption that the UK Govt would not be entirely incompetent are s
t out of luck.No-deal is defeatist at the best of times, but when its being promoted by the people who told the voters that a deal with be easy, then it's also a lie and a con trick.
When you went to the polls that day, what ruled no deal out ?
But you are going to keep ignoring that simple answer and ask the same inane question over and over again in the belief that it constitutes intelligent debate.
I don’t actually blame those who voted leave. There are always people in society who are easily led and the leave campaign did a great job of playing to those people’s fears and emotions. I do entirely blame the liars and charlatans who peddled the untruths. I probably should feel some pleasure that those mendacious and self-interested individuals are now in Government and will now be held to account for their deceits but, in reality, I am more sorrowful that the whole country will suffer - and, as always, the most vulnerable most of all - because these unprincipaled individuals incited the credulous and the scared to burn their own house down.
I guess the same type of rhetoric will gather momentum as the next 67 days go by as the Remainers get more desperate to spin anything they think will make the slightest difference to the way people think/feel about the way they voted. It won't make any difference, people don't care, they don't care in the same way that the politicians don't care that they've lied and cheated, and done everything to thwart Brexit despite their promise/s to respect the result.
People wonder why the vote went the way it did!
ClaphamGT3 said:
Let’s set this out really clearly. In the run-up to the referendum the remain campaign said that securing a deal with the EU would be difficult, time consuming and couldn’t be guaranteed. The leave campaign said that it would be quick and easy and that, in any event, the risks of leaving without a deal were being overstated.
Indeed they did. It's not a hard thing to grasp, but there was only two outcomes; we either left with a deal or we would not. Two clear things for voters to grapple with and inform their vote. The majority decided to vote to leave, and as such and by there very vote, acknowledged nothing was guaranteed to them and took that risk. When all distilled down, there was an instruction to leave and one of two possibilities that this would either be deal or no deal.
Lunatic assertions that no deal was never even a possibility are an outright lie and blatant propaganda that you should condemn. I fear though you will just repeat the bit of your post I snipped out and moan about leavers.
DeepEnd said:
State of this post.
It is banjoboy and Clapham amongst others who are talking reasoned common sense.
These “winners” are certainly angry. Perhaps they are angry as they can’t quite put their finger on what they’ve won. The destruction of parliamentary sovereignty seems on the cards today, though that could just be a Cummings “make us look serious to the foreigners” stunt.
When Banjoboy outright lies and says no deal was not even a possible outcome, you too should condemn that as such. Instead you support the lie and post pure propaganda. It is banjoboy and Clapham amongst others who are talking reasoned common sense.
These “winners” are certainly angry. Perhaps they are angry as they can’t quite put their finger on what they’ve won. The destruction of parliamentary sovereignty seems on the cards today, though that could just be a Cummings “make us look serious to the foreigners” stunt.
banjowilly said:
This is flat out untrue Go and find me a leave campaigner from 2016 who campaigned on this. I'll take one from Farage, Hannan, Johnson, Gove, Stewart or Hoey. Your pick. There is no mandate for no deal. We may get that, but you don't get to rewrite the campaign with a lie simply because it's been such a balls up as we predicted it would be that you now have to claim it was on the cards all along.
Complete rubbish. Have you read art.50? Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff