How do we think EU negotiations will go? (Vol 11)
Discussion
DeepEnd said:
There was never any risk of us losing our parliamentary sovereignty.
What an unfortunately ill-informed reason to vote leave.
The stated goal, the founding principle indeed, of the EU is ever closer union. That only has one logical conclusion. A Federal State. That's not something I want this Country to be party to.What an unfortunately ill-informed reason to vote leave.
Open question to the more vociferous of our “Leave at any costs” corespondents
In a sentence or two why the increasingly triumphalist language and persistent desire to revel in victory of outcome over those who don’t agree ?
I’ve never witnessed anything like it in forty something years. It’s a type of tribalism that makes football rivalries seem grounded in common sense !
Beyond the PH bubble and being semi serious for a moment if this behaviour is indicative of attitudes across the country it’s going to take some effort to repair things.
In a sentence or two why the increasingly triumphalist language and persistent desire to revel in victory of outcome over those who don’t agree ?
I’ve never witnessed anything like it in forty something years. It’s a type of tribalism that makes football rivalries seem grounded in common sense !
Beyond the PH bubble and being semi serious for a moment if this behaviour is indicative of attitudes across the country it’s going to take some effort to repair things.
Brooking10 said:
Open question to the more vociferous of our “Leave at any costs” corespondents
In a sentence or two why the increasingly triumphalist language and persistent desire to revel in victory of outcome over those who don’t agree ?
I’ve never witnessed anything like it in forty something years. It’s a type of tribalism that makes football rivalries seem grounded in common sense !
Beyond the PH bubble and being semi serious for a moment if this behaviour is indicative of attitudes across the country it’s going to take some effort to repair things.
Because you have people on both sides prepared to outright lie and invent recent history. In the last few pages, people declaring the only mandate was to leave with a deal, or no deal was never a possible outcome. In a sentence or two why the increasingly triumphalist language and persistent desire to revel in victory of outcome over those who don’t agree ?
I’ve never witnessed anything like it in forty something years. It’s a type of tribalism that makes football rivalries seem grounded in common sense !
Beyond the PH bubble and being semi serious for a moment if this behaviour is indicative of attitudes across the country it’s going to take some effort to repair things.
Again, on both sides people keep quite and don't call out the lies as they regard remaining or leaving as more important.
Otis Criblecoblis said:
Because you have people on both sides prepared to outright lie and invent recent history. In the last few pages, people declaring the only mandate was to leave with a deal, or no deal was never a possible outcome.
Again, on both sides people keep quite and don't call out the lies as they regard remaining or leaving as more important.
There’s a difference between debunking untruths and revelling in victory with recourse to countdown clocks , repeatedly exhorting schadenfreude etc though isn’t there ? Again, on both sides people keep quite and don't call out the lies as they regard remaining or leaving as more important.
Otis Criblecoblis said:
Sorry, but you are just thick. You claimed that no deal was not a possible outcome. There was only two options , we would either leave with a deal or without. You are little more than the most blatant liar on PH.
You refused to answer multiple times, now you must be called on it.
That is not what he is claiming at all.You refused to answer multiple times, now you must be called on it.
The argument is that leave campaigned heavily on getting a great deal.
There was only passing discussion on WTO and it was swept aside as “of course we’ll get a great deal.
Brooking10 said:
Open question to the more vociferous of our “Leave at any costs” corespondents
In a sentence or two why the increasingly triumphalist language and persistent desire to revel in victory of outcome over those who don’t agree ?
I’ve never witnessed anything like it in forty something years. It’s a type of tribalism that makes football rivalries seem grounded in common sense !
Beyond the PH bubble and being semi serious for a moment if this behaviour is indicative of attitudes across the country it’s going to take some effort to repair things.
For a long time, it looked like we were going to have either BRINO or revoke. Do you not recall the triumphalist language during those years? Brexit ain't happening and you know it snowflakes! I recall In a sentence or two why the increasingly triumphalist language and persistent desire to revel in victory of outcome over those who don’t agree ?
I’ve never witnessed anything like it in forty something years. It’s a type of tribalism that makes football rivalries seem grounded in common sense !
Beyond the PH bubble and being semi serious for a moment if this behaviour is indicative of attitudes across the country it’s going to take some effort to repair things.
There were hundreds of posts gloating about how Brexit was going to be stopped, for years.It goes both ways.
amusingduck said:
For a long time, it looked like we were going to have either BRINO or revoke. Do you not recall the triumphalist language during those years? Brexit ain't happening and you know it snowflakes! I recall There were hundreds of posts gloating about how Brexit was going to be stopped, for years.
It goes both ways.
Fair enough. There were hundreds of posts gloating about how Brexit was going to be stopped, for years.It goes both ways.
How we going to fix it ?
Does anybody care ?
Brooking10 said:
amusingduck said:
For a long time, it looked like we were going to have either BRINO or revoke. Do you not recall the triumphalist language during those years? Brexit ain't happening and you know it snowflakes! I recall There were hundreds of posts gloating about how Brexit was going to be stopped, for years.
It goes both ways.
Fair enough. There were hundreds of posts gloating about how Brexit was going to be stopped, for years.It goes both ways.
How we going to fix it ?
Does anybody care ?
I think once we've actually left and the world hasn't ended, we'll be most of the way there.
Brooking10 said:
There’s a difference between debunking untruths and revelling in victory with recourse to countdown clocks , repeatedly exhorting schadenfreude etc though isn’t there ?
Yep, but it's the same people as above, actually on both sides , despite you asking from only one side. It's not like Remain voters here don't indulge in a ' leave voters are thick ' type belittling discourse. Is it ?AJL308 said:
ClaphamGT3 said:
Let’s set this out really clearly. In the run-up to the referendum the remain campaign said that securing a deal with the EU would be difficult, time consuming and couldn’t be guaranteed. The leave campaign said that it would be quick and easy and that, in any event, the risks of leaving without a deal were being overstated. It is those who spoke for remain who are being proved right and it is those who voted for remain who are being proved to be the more responsible voters.
I don’t actually blame those who voted leave. There are always people in society who are easily led and the leave campaign did a great job of playing to those people’s fears and emotions. I do entirely blame the liars and charlatans who peddled the untruths. I probably should feel some pleasure that those mendacious and self-interested individuals are now in Government and will now be held to account for their deceits but, in reality, I am more sorrowful that the whole country will suffer - and, as always, the most vulnerable most of all - because these unprincipaled individuals incited the credulous and the scared to burn their own house down.
No, they said it "should" be. Subtly but very important distinction.I don’t actually blame those who voted leave. There are always people in society who are easily led and the leave campaign did a great job of playing to those people’s fears and emotions. I do entirely blame the liars and charlatans who peddled the untruths. I probably should feel some pleasure that those mendacious and self-interested individuals are now in Government and will now be held to account for their deceits but, in reality, I am more sorrowful that the whole country will suffer - and, as always, the most vulnerable most of all - because these unprincipaled individuals incited the credulous and the scared to burn their own house down.
Michael Gove
There will continue to be free trade, and access to the single market.
Boris Johnson
Getting out of the EU can be quick and easy – the UK holds most of the cards in any negotiation.
John Redwood
To me, Brexit is easy.
Nigel Farage
The free trade agreement that we will have to do with the European Union should be one of the easiest in human history.
Liam Fox
There will be no downside to Brexit, only a considerable upside.
David Davis
Otis Criblecoblis said:
Yep, but it's the same people as above, actually on both sides , despite you asking from only one side. It's not like Remain voters here don't indulge in a ' leave voters are thick ' type belittling discourse. Is it ?
I'd challenge you to find one post in which I've referred to you as thick Otis, whereas you deploy it every time you address me. Do you think, if you can be honest just the once, that it enhances or otherwise lends authority to anything you say?Brooking10 said:
amusingduck said:
For a long time, it looked like we were going to have either BRINO or revoke. Do you not recall the triumphalist language during those years? Brexit ain't happening and you know it snowflakes! I recall There were hundreds of posts gloating about how Brexit was going to be stopped, for years.
It goes both ways.
Fair enough. There were hundreds of posts gloating about how Brexit was going to be stopped, for years.It goes both ways.
How we going to fix it ?
Does anybody care ?
Recognising our problems is the first step to solving them.
gooner1 said:
Brooking10 said:
amusingduck said:
For a long time, it looked like we were going to have either BRINO or revoke. Do you not recall the triumphalist language during those years? Brexit ain't happening and you know it snowflakes! I recall There were hundreds of posts gloating about how Brexit was going to be stopped, for years.
It goes both ways.
Fair enough. There were hundreds of posts gloating about how Brexit was going to be stopped, for years.It goes both ways.
How we going to fix it ?
Does anybody care ?
Recognising our problems is the first step to solving them.
I have actually acknowledged what he said
You should assume “it” refers to the schism as a whole.
Big picture Goon.
Brooking10 said:
gooner1 said:
Brooking10 said:
amusingduck said:
For a long time, it looked like we were going to have either BRINO or revoke. Do you not recall the triumphalist language during those years? Brexit ain't happening and you know it snowflakes! I recall There were hundreds of posts gloating about how Brexit was going to be stopped, for years.
It goes both ways.
Fair enough. There were hundreds of posts gloating about how Brexit was going to be stopped, for years.It goes both ways.
How we going to fix it ?
Does anybody care ?
Recognising our problems is the first step to solving them.
I have actually acknowledged what he said
You should assume “it” refers to the schism as a whole.
Big picture Goon.
DeepEnd said:
Otis Criblecoblis said:
Sorry, but you are just thick. You claimed that no deal was not a possible outcome. There was only two options , we would either leave with a deal or without. You are little more than the most blatant liar on PH.
You refused to answer multiple times, now you must be called on it.
That is not what he is claiming at all.You refused to answer multiple times, now you must be called on it.
The argument is that leave campaigned heavily on getting a great deal.
There was only passing discussion on WTO and it was swept aside as “of course we’ll get a great deal.
You've either interpreted or shifted that on to what people campaigned on, where i would agree with you actually - politicians campaign on telling you the nice stuff and don't campaign on caveating it. This is left to us as responsible voters to work out.
There was a quite obvious point that the way the referendum was set up, didn't exclude the possibility of it ending in no deal. There is only the two outcomes from this.
banjowilly said:
Otis Criblecoblis said:
Yep, but it's the same people as above, actually on both sides , despite you asking from only one side. It's not like Remain voters here don't indulge in a ' leave voters are thick ' type belittling discourse. Is it ?
I'd challenge you to find one post in which I've referred to you as thick Otis, whereas you deploy it every time you address me. Do you think, if you can be honest just the once, that it enhances or otherwise lends authority to anything you say?Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff