How do we think EU negotiations will go? (Vol 11)
Discussion
andymadmak said:
The implication in your challenge is that leaving the EU will not result in being able to do anything more than you can currently do with the UK as a member.
He, and others have named one thing. Your challenge has been met. But now you're moving the goalposts, to include some sort of worthiness measure, with presumably that worthiness being determined by your own values. So if it doesn't impact you personally, and if you can't see the importance of it to your life then you can dismiss it and ridicule the poster with ROFLs.
Do you not see that your attitude (as manifested by too many Remain voters) is a massive part of the problem with the post referendum debate?
I am not "moving the goalposts". You are providing comedy gold though.He, and others have named one thing. Your challenge has been met. But now you're moving the goalposts, to include some sort of worthiness measure, with presumably that worthiness being determined by your own values. So if it doesn't impact you personally, and if you can't see the importance of it to your life then you can dismiss it and ridicule the poster with ROFLs.
Do you not see that your attitude (as manifested by too many Remain voters) is a massive part of the problem with the post referendum debate?
If I explained to a crowd of people how I asked a Brexiter for one strong reason why the UK is better off, one strong thing that someone can do , which they cannot do now, and the answer was ""catch a sea bass when I go fishing"", i think it would get a good laugh.
We are plunging our farmers into uncertainty, alienating many of our young people who want different things on average, making ourselves a laughing stock and risking our economy, so a few blokes can go bass fishing. And you tell me I am a part of the problem !
andymadmak said:
May I remind you of the challenge you posed?
Wait your turn, andy! 
Crackie is first in line
Crackie said:
toppstuff said:
The problem is that we want to do trade deals with other countries and many of the leaders of these countries think we have lost our minds.
toppstuff said:
I provide statements backed by third party corroboration.
toppstuff said:
I have an answer and datapoints to support every statement I have made.
toppstuff said:
I am super confident that i can back up every statement.
Crackie said:
Fire away with quotes from 'a large number' of country leaders to support your statement......... 25 is a reasonable number, bearing in mind there are 195 countries.
toppstuff said:
Ah yes - thank you. Give me a little time but I am happy to oblige.
toppstuff said:
You really should have even tried a cursory google before using this theme to challenge me - finding credible reports that the rest of the world thinks we are f
king nuts is not that hard to find. Be prepared to lose.
I am travelling right now but I will get round to it.
Edited to add that naturally it is impossible to speak for the world, but it is not hard to find a general consensus of bafflement and bewilderment at what we have done to ourselves..
Good to hear you're happy to oblige king nuts is not that hard to find. Be prepared to lose. I am travelling right now but I will get round to it.
Edited to add that naturally it is impossible to speak for the world, but it is not hard to find a general consensus of bafflement and bewilderment at what we have done to ourselves..
There appears to be something wrong with your quoting, possibly because you're using a phone in an airport departure lounge somewhere. To help you out I've reinstated the missing section. As you claimed, and are super confident you can support, your quotes must come from leaders of each country. Good lad.
markjmd said:
Gilbertron said:
F1GTRUeno said:
Nobody tired of this yet?
You got what you wanted. To feel significant in your tiny lives for a moment and I'm sure the 'victory' of 2016 felt amazing for you but the crushing reality is that you don't really matter as evidenced by the farce that has been the last three years.
At this point Brexit doesn't really matter at all to anyone, it's just lost in the noise around it. You got your voices heard, you were never going to get them acted upon, surely you've gotta realise that by now. No matter if we leave or stay it won't be what you actually wanted but you've made a whole bunch of people miserable in the process throughout this country and abroad and Britain is a joke.
All the talk of living in a dictatorship seems to have stemmed from and, initially, been a reply to this. You got what you wanted. To feel significant in your tiny lives for a moment and I'm sure the 'victory' of 2016 felt amazing for you but the crushing reality is that you don't really matter as evidenced by the farce that has been the last three years.
At this point Brexit doesn't really matter at all to anyone, it's just lost in the noise around it. You got your voices heard, you were never going to get them acted upon, surely you've gotta realise that by now. No matter if we leave or stay it won't be what you actually wanted but you've made a whole bunch of people miserable in the process throughout this country and abroad and Britain is a joke.
toppstuff said:
andymadmak said:
The implication in your challenge is that leaving the EU will not result in being able to do anything more than you can currently do with the UK as a member.
He, and others have named one thing. Your challenge has been met. But now you're moving the goalposts, to include some sort of worthiness measure, with presumably that worthiness being determined by your own values. So if it doesn't impact you personally, and if you can't see the importance of it to your life then you can dismiss it and ridicule the poster with ROFLs.
Do you not see that your attitude (as manifested by too many Remain voters) is a massive part of the problem with the post referendum debate?
I am not "moving the goalposts". You are providing comedy gold though.He, and others have named one thing. Your challenge has been met. But now you're moving the goalposts, to include some sort of worthiness measure, with presumably that worthiness being determined by your own values. So if it doesn't impact you personally, and if you can't see the importance of it to your life then you can dismiss it and ridicule the poster with ROFLs.
Do you not see that your attitude (as manifested by too many Remain voters) is a massive part of the problem with the post referendum debate?
If I explained to a crowd of people how I asked a Brexiter for one strong reason why the UK is better off, one strong thing that someone can do , which they cannot do now, and the answer was ""catch a sea bass when I go fishing"", i think it would get a good laugh.
We are plunging our farmers into uncertainty, alienating many of our young people who want different things on average, making ourselves a laughing stock and risking our economy, so a few blokes can go bass fishing. And you tell me I am a part of the problem !
Answer: You didn't. And you know it. You're just making shizzle up again. As you do. And you think I am the one providing comedy gold?
andymadmak said:
See those goalposts? You just moved them again. Where in your original challenge or any subsequent repetition thereof did you mention the word 'strong'?
Answer: You didn't. And you know it. You're just making shizzle up again. As you do. And you think I am the one providing comedy gold?
So you are saying there are NO 'strong reasons" then? Regard the "strong"as optional. Would that make a difference to the absurdity of the answer?Answer: You didn't. And you know it. You're just making shizzle up again. As you do. And you think I am the one providing comedy gold?
chrispmartha said:
Robertj21a said:
chrispmartha said:
chunder27 said:
In all honesty, all I feel is utter disregard for anyone in politics and the mainstream media who have simply made themselves look utterly pathetic throughout this whole process.
The vote went the way none of them wanted, why? Because they are all utterly out of touch with the working class people of this country (mainly outside London) in most areas, (even those that voted remain especially in Scotland did so as a backlash from their referendum years before, but I understand that and fair enough).
All people and business wants is a clear direction, that has never really been there despite 3 years of garbage from these rabbit in headlights tossers who can't get their own way.
If some businesses fail, so be it, others will arrive to replace them, it will take time, I am prepared for that and to cope with the downturn that will come with it, in my mind it is worth it. Those that failed in the main were heavily reliant on EU tariffs and bungs to exist in the first place, so obviously will suffer now.
We are not weak, incapable, hopeless at anything, we are a leading light in many ways (sadly masked by lack of ambition from our government who have relied on unskilled labour and mass immigration to bolster their back pockets and their paymasters in the service industries New Labour and the old Tories pushed in the late 20th century), we just need to have a strong leader and the willingness to have some balls and show these nimbi es that we can fight our own way, do our own thing and be strong.
The embarrassing side is not how we are viewed, it is more the way these so called politicians have dithered, wasted time and made us, the people who voted, a laughing stock, when all we want to do is bloody well get on with it!
Well personally I think that’s a load of patronising guff. What are classing as ‘working class people’?The vote went the way none of them wanted, why? Because they are all utterly out of touch with the working class people of this country (mainly outside London) in most areas, (even those that voted remain especially in Scotland did so as a backlash from their referendum years before, but I understand that and fair enough).
All people and business wants is a clear direction, that has never really been there despite 3 years of garbage from these rabbit in headlights tossers who can't get their own way.
If some businesses fail, so be it, others will arrive to replace them, it will take time, I am prepared for that and to cope with the downturn that will come with it, in my mind it is worth it. Those that failed in the main were heavily reliant on EU tariffs and bungs to exist in the first place, so obviously will suffer now.
We are not weak, incapable, hopeless at anything, we are a leading light in many ways (sadly masked by lack of ambition from our government who have relied on unskilled labour and mass immigration to bolster their back pockets and their paymasters in the service industries New Labour and the old Tories pushed in the late 20th century), we just need to have a strong leader and the willingness to have some balls and show these nimbi es that we can fight our own way, do our own thing and be strong.
The embarrassing side is not how we are viewed, it is more the way these so called politicians have dithered, wasted time and made us, the people who voted, a laughing stock, when all we want to do is bloody well get on with it!
And do you think the main Brexiteers Reese Mogg, Johnson or Farage have a grasp of what the average person on the street want, think or go through in life?
Source, Clarke, Stewart &Whiteley
Strikes me that the post refocusing on 'working class people' for whatever intent was indeed patronising guff, although it does depend on definition of working class.
toppstuff said:
I am not "moving the goalposts". You are providing comedy gold though.
If I explained to a crowd of people how I asked a Brexiter for one strong reason why the UK is better off, one strong thing that someone can do , which they cannot do now, and the answer was ""catch a sea bass when I go fishing"", i think it would get a good laugh.
We are plunging our farmers into uncertainty, alienating many of our young people who want different things on average, making ourselves a laughing stock and risking our economy, so a few blokes can go bass fishing. And you tell me I am a part of the problem !
Ah, then the brexiter would turn around to the same crowd and highlight the lies and misdirection of your comments, what was asked was, name one thing, it was named, and then the normal adjustment came in to claim that the original question had been deeper and wider, when it was not, the same old rubbish of taking an answer to a singular question and mis representing the answer to try and show a different situation.If I explained to a crowd of people how I asked a Brexiter for one strong reason why the UK is better off, one strong thing that someone can do , which they cannot do now, and the answer was ""catch a sea bass when I go fishing"", i think it would get a good laugh.
We are plunging our farmers into uncertainty, alienating many of our young people who want different things on average, making ourselves a laughing stock and risking our economy, so a few blokes can go bass fishing. And you tell me I am a part of the problem !
Its not a few blokes either, have you found out why the fishing areas and farming areas voted leave?
Please highlight in your original question the strong that I missed? if you have misrepresented the answer to the original question, how about saying that?
toppstuff said:
andymadmak said:
See those goalposts? You just moved them again. Where in your original challenge or any subsequent repetition thereof did you mention the word 'strong'?
Answer: You didn't. And you know it. You're just making shizzle up again. As you do. And you think I am the one providing comedy gold?
So you are saying there are NO 'strong reasons" then? Regard the "strong"as optional. Would that make a difference to the absurdity of the answer?Answer: You didn't. And you know it. You're just making shizzle up again. As you do. And you think I am the one providing comedy gold?
wc98 said:
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: I think it looks bad.
Actually it looks awful.
would you still support remaining in light of this, or vote to remain in the future given the chance ?Actually it looks awful.
From what I know of it that appointment can't be defended.
Where I struggle, and the obvious issue, is that it's one of thousands of issues that a simple "In" or "Out" is supposed to solve.
For example would I change my mind to "Leave" and risk the break-up of the union as a result? No.
Do I think it's good to put someone convicted of negligence in charge of a bank? No.
FiF said:
Well let's have a look at the demographic of who voted for the Brexit party in EP2019 election.
Source, Clarke, Stewart &Whiteley
Strikes me that the post refocusing on 'working class people' for whatever intent was indeed patronising guff, although it does depend on definition of working class.
Can you explain those numbers a bit? It appears that by (eg) social group the percentages total well over 100. For other groupings they don’t. How is it they total over 100 for certain groupings?Source, Clarke, Stewart &Whiteley
Strikes me that the post refocusing on 'working class people' for whatever intent was indeed patronising guff, although it does depend on definition of working class.
andymadmak said:
toppstuff said:
andymadmak said:
See those goalposts? You just moved them again. Where in your original challenge or any subsequent repetition thereof did you mention the word 'strong'?
Answer: You didn't. And you know it. You're just making shizzle up again. As you do. And you think I am the one providing comedy gold?
So you are saying there are NO 'strong reasons" then? Regard the "strong"as optional. Would that make a difference to the absurdity of the answer?Answer: You didn't. And you know it. You're just making shizzle up again. As you do. And you think I am the one providing comedy gold?
Answers citing examples such as Large Combustion Plant Directive, or Common Agricultural and Fisheries policies, various other directives and regulations affecting life in UK were glibly dismissed and the question changed to something which directly affected the poster's personal life. Then followed up by typical mocking.
We are just seeing the same tactic here, just as cynical now as it was back then.
Greg66 said:
FiF said:
Can you explain those numbers a bit? It appears that by (eg) social group the percentages total well over 100. For other groupings they don’t. How is it they total over 100 for certain groupings?So although 50% of the over 65s voted for the Brexit Party there might not be as many of them as in the other age groups so you cannot tell how relevant they are. Also it is not clear whether the percentage is of those who voted, those who are registered to vote or those alive.
Edited by C4ME on Wednesday 3rd July 14:35
amusingduck said:
andymadmak said:
May I remind you of the challenge you posed?
Wait your turn, andy! Crackie is first in line
Crackie said:
toppstuff said:
The problem is that we want to do trade deals with other countries and many of the leaders of these countries think we have lost our minds.
toppstuff said:
I provide statements backed by third party corroboration.
toppstuff said:
I have an answer and datapoints to support every statement I have made.
toppstuff said:
I am super confident that i can back up every statement.
Crackie said:
Fire away with quotes from 'a large number' of country leaders to support your statement......... 25 is a reasonable number, bearing in mind there are 195 countries.
toppstuff said:
Ah yes - thank you. Give me a little time but I am happy to oblige.
toppstuff said:
You really should have even tried a cursory google before using this theme to challenge me - finding credible reports that the rest of the world thinks we are fking nuts is not that hard to find. Be prepared to lose.
I am travelling right now but I will get round to it.
Edited to add that naturally it is impossible to speak for the world, but it is not hard to find a general consensus of bafflement and bewilderment at what we have done to ourselves..
Good to hear you're happy to oblige king nuts is not that hard to find. Be prepared to lose. I am travelling right now but I will get round to it.
Edited to add that naturally it is impossible to speak for the world, but it is not hard to find a general consensus of bafflement and bewilderment at what we have done to ourselves..
There appears to be something wrong with your quoting, possibly because you're using a phone in an airport departure lounge somewhere. To help you out I've reinstated the missing section. As you claimed, and are super confident you can support, your quotes must come from leaders of each country. Good lad.
Should have the names of a few leaders any minute now..........toppstuff has had some spare time today.
bhstewie said:
hstewie said:wc98 said:
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: I think it looks bad.
Actually it looks awful.
would you still support remaining in light of this, or vote to remain in the future given the chance ?Actually it looks awful.
From what I know of it that appointment can't be defended.
Where I struggle, and the obvious issue, is that it's one of thousands of issues that a simple "In" or "Out" is supposed to solve.
For example would I change my mind to "Leave" and risk the break-up of the union as a result? No.
Do I think it's good to put someone convicted of negligence in charge of a bank? No.
It rather spoils the mostly blemish-free moral highground you held, that some things simply preclude the possibility of your support
C4ME said:
Greg66 said:
FiF said:
Can you explain those numbers a bit? It appears that by (eg) social group the percentages total well over 100. For other groupings they don’t. How is it they total over 100 for certain groupings?So although 50% of the over 65s voted for the Brexit Party there might not be as many of them as in the other age groups so you cannot tell how relevant they are.
Edited by C4ME on Wednesday 3rd July 14:24
FiF said:
C4ME said:
Greg66 said:
FiF said:
Can you explain those numbers a bit? It appears that by (eg) social group the percentages total well over 100. For other groupings they don’t. How is it they total over 100 for certain groupings?So although 50% of the over 65s voted for the Brexit Party there might not be as many of them as in the other age groups so you cannot tell how relevant they are.
Edited by C4ME on Wednesday 3rd July 14:24
C4ME said:
Greg66 said:
FiF said:
Can you explain those numbers a bit? It appears that by (eg) social group the percentages total well over 100. For other groupings they don’t. How is it they total over 100 for certain groupings?So although 50% of the over 65s voted for the Brexit Party there might not be as many of them as in the other age groups so you cannot tell how relevant they are.
Edited by anonymous-user on Wednesday 3rd July 14:24
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