New drivers could be banned from driving at night BBC

New drivers could be banned from driving at night BBC

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Hol

5,055 posts

144 months

Friday 19th July
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Vipers said:
Fore Left said:
Vipers said:
Alucidnation said:
Read about this earlier and I think it’s an excellent idea.
The police can hardly police current law breakers how will they police this unless someone crashes. You can't stop every car on the assumption the driver had recently passed their test.

Can't see this taking off.
It will be enforced by technology. All young drivers will be forced to have a black box. Crapita or whoever are paid millions to police it will then send out automated fines / bans along with a reminder that you need a TV licence now you're stuck at home biggrin
How do you tell the black box your dad borrowed your car at 0200 in the morning?

And what about young drivers using dads car in the first place?
I am fairly sure a friend mentioned that their sons black box policy included a curfew timeline as an option to lower the premiums.
I know they dont all do that though - because if they did, we would have people showboating about this idea it in the press..


As stated alrteady by some posters, its nothing at all to do with the lack of daylight, but more to do with minimizing the ability to be more reckless when there are less cars on the road. (Othwerwise, the legislation would need to consider the difference between a well lit inner city and a totally dark country lane).

^IMHO, of course.





wiggy001

5,225 posts

215 months

Friday 19th July
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cml24 said:
I think this is a better solution. I think only allowing family members in the car, and maybe limiting the number to one, would help a lot more than a night curfew.

That's an opinion though, I'd be interested to see some facts from Australia about its effect.
I think I'd prefer better education rather than our lives being run by an overbearing nanny.

speedy_thrills

6,631 posts

187 months

Friday 19th July
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Just my opinion but in many ways cars are actually more difficult to drive and consequently more dangerous than they used to be. Car manufacturers have crammed in loads of junk from distracting ICE systems and dashboard lights/displays all vying for limited attention. Fat B pillars now create blind spots so large you need a detection system to tell you if anyone is hiding there and you are constantly peering around A pillars at junctions. Cars bodies have also grown large making even low speed maneuvering more difficult. Cars weigh a lot more and consequently have to have more powerful engines but tyre traction has not kept pace. Headlights have become so bright that passing other cars temporarily blinds you. There are so many driver aids constantly interfering that drivers never get a chance to actually experience what is happening at the wheels so would have no chance of catching a slide on a tight corner for example.

When you get into a learners car many of is grew up with, like 3rd to 5th generation Civics and compare it to the modern offering, you realise we had it so easy. We had reasonable vision all round, few distractions (maybe a tape deck - depending on how tight the first owner was), simple instruments/buttons/displays. We could just concentrate on and be fully engaged in actually driving the [expletive] vehicle.

Alucidnation

10,731 posts

114 months

Friday 19th July
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speedy_thrills said:
Just my opinion but in many ways cars are actually more difficult to drive and consequently more dangerous than they used to be. Car manufacturers have crammed in loads of junk from distracting ICE systems and dashboard lights/displays all vying for limited attention. Fat B pillars now create blind spots so large you need a detection system to tell you if anyone is hiding there and you are constantly peering around A pillars at junctions. Cars bodies have also grown large making even low speed maneuvering more difficult. Cars weigh a lot more and consequently have to have more powerful engines but tyre traction has not kept pace. Headlights have become so bright that passing other cars temporarily blinds you. There are so many driver aids constantly interfering that drivers never get a chance to actually experience what is happening at the wheels so would have no chance of catching a slide on a tight corner for example.

When you get into a learners car many of is grew up with, like 3rd to 5th generation Civics and compare it to the modern offering, you realise we had it so easy. We had reasonable vision all round, few distractions (maybe a tape deck - depending on how tight the first owner was), simple instruments/buttons/displays. We could just concentrate on and be fully engaged in actually driving the [expletive] vehicle.
Sorry but most of this is absolute cobblers.

speedy_thrills

6,631 posts

187 months

Friday 19th July
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Alucidnation said:
Sorry but most of this is absolute cobblers.
Fair enough, I outlined it was my opinion. Also modern cars are far better in other ways (e.g. when you crash you'll be glad of those chunky A or B pillars! smile)

Down and out

1,550 posts

8 months

Friday 19th July
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All very well thinking it's a good idea when you're in your 30s plus.

andymadmak

10,585 posts

214 months

Friday 19th July
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Alucidnation said:
speedy_thrills said:
Just my opinion but in many ways cars are actually more difficult to drive and consequently more dangerous than they used to be. Car manufacturers have crammed in loads of junk from distracting ICE systems and dashboard lights/displays all vying for limited attention. Fat B pillars now create blind spots so large you need a detection system to tell you if anyone is hiding there and you are constantly peering around A pillars at junctions. Cars bodies have also grown large making even low speed maneuvering more difficult. Cars weigh a lot more and consequently have to have more powerful engines but tyre traction has not kept pace. Headlights have become so bright that passing other cars temporarily blinds you. There are so many driver aids constantly interfering that drivers never get a chance to actually experience what is happening at the wheels so would have no chance of catching a slide on a tight corner for example.

When you get into a learners car many of is grew up with, like 3rd to 5th generation Civics and compare it to the modern offering, you realise we had it so easy. We had reasonable vision all round, few distractions (maybe a tape deck - depending on how tight the first owner was), simple instruments/buttons/displays. We could just concentrate on and be fully engaged in actually driving the [expletive] vehicle.
Sorry but most of this is absolute cobblers.
I have some agreement with Speedy's points. But I actually think that the problem is even more basic than that. I am old enough to have learned to drive in a (Non BMW) Mini. My first car was a 1955 A30! (it was older than me!). I progressed up through Escorts and Cortinas and such like. The thing is, they were all fairly slow, and had little by way of driver aids. I felt everything through the wheel, the pedals and the seat of my pants, and I learned a lot about basic car control at quite low speeds because most of the cars I had had such low limits!
Today's cars are different. Fat tyred and powerful, even in their most basic forms, and with a sense of total isolation from the mechanical and kinetic forces going on when driven briskly, many youngster never get to really learn the signs that they are pushing the limits of their vehicle . Thus if they're going to have a crash, it will be sudden, take them by surprise and will most likely be at a far higher speed - with the associated consequences.

When I taught my kids to drive I made sure that they spent time driving some basic stuff, rather than just sticking to the Instructors Yaris/Micra/Ka
All three of my kids remarked that the feeling of driving the older stuff helped them to appreciate what was actually happening when they drove, far more than the mute isolationism of the newer stuff.

A Winner Is You

20,461 posts

171 months

Friday 19th July
quotequote all
speedy_thrills said:
Alucidnation said:
Sorry but most of this is absolute cobblers.
Fair enough, I outlined it was my opinion. Also modern cars are far better in other ways (e.g. when you crash you'll be glad of those chunky A or B pillars! smile)
I do agree however it's a bit odd that using a phone is outlawed, but it's fine to screw what is basically a large tablet to the dash (Tesla being on of the more ridiculous examples)

TheK1981

64 posts

19 months

Friday 19th July
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At 18 my friend had twins, saying that you can only have 1 passenger would mean she wouldnt be able to drive with them both in the car, unless theres an exception,

Then someone will say what about this reason, so theres another exception, before we know it theres more rules / exceptions that we can deal with.

Look how many uninsured cars there are, people on phones, the police have a hard enough time already,

Im not saying I know the answer, but why make more rules when the current ones arent being dealt with.

Triumph Man

5,926 posts

112 months

Friday 19th July
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Down and out said:
All very well thinking it's a good idea when you're in your 30s plus.
Quite. I'm sure a lot of them are people who in their dim and distant youths were not averse to hooning down a road in the dead of night...

When I was younger I worked in Waitrose, and most of my shifts were to past closing (i.e. 8/9 pm). How they expect people to hold down jobs when they can't get to and from them, I don't know.

I'd rather passenger with a young driver with full faculties and eyesight than some old biffer who can't see on a good day, let alone at night.

captain_cynic

5,012 posts

39 months

Friday 19th July
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valiant said:
frisbee said:
Mandat said:
Many here seem to be conflating night time with driving after sunset.

In winter, when the sun sets at 4pm, it is still the afternoon, and there is then all evening to go before you get to night time. Therefore winter driving shouldn't be a problem if the curfew is set to "night" times, say between 23.00-05.00.

Personally, I don't particularly agree that such a curfew idea will see a large reduction in accidents but presumably there is some evidence that driving at night poses a real risk.
What about during a total eclipse on the sun or a volcanic eruption?
Balanced out by a supernova going supernovery.
Earth's sun does not have sufficient mass, nor is sufficiently close enough to another star to go supernova. We'll have to suffer a regular old nova instead.

captain_cynic

5,012 posts

39 months

Friday 19th July
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There was a similar system in place back in Western Australia, it might help answer some of those "what if's" in this thread, The first you should know that in WA it is mandatory for a novice driver to display P plates for their probationary period (2 years) which must be coloured red for the first six months.

Night time driving restrictions only affected red P platers (the first six months of unsupervised driving) in which time it was illegal for them to drive between the hours of 12 midnight and 5 am unless:
- It is in the course of your employment.
- It is between your place of employment and residence.
- It is between your place of schooling and residence.
In all above cases, travel must commence as soon as practicable after work or classes finish.

I can imagine it would end up being something similar in the UK. Of course back in Western Australia all that novice drivers did was remove the P-Plates from their car and ignored the restriction. Given that P-plates are not mandatory here it's going to do the grand total of sweet fk all as cops don't have the time or funding to pull over random drivers to see their license.

TwigtheWonderkid

29,329 posts

94 months

Friday 19th July
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milkround said:
You can get your class 1 licence at 18 now... So all those truck drivers will have to explain to their company they can't drive when it's dark!

Total and utter rubbish. I find night driving easier and less stressful due to the lack of traffic.

What a fantastic idea... Let's have an exception for trucks maybe. So the guys/gals can drive around in an artic and then have to kip in their car as they can't drive home.
I think you are completely missing the point. I'm pretty sure there are stats to show that a very large proportion of KSI accidents involve young drivers, in cars, in the early hours. That's why some black box policies for young drivers come eth a 10-6 curfew in exchange for lower premiums.

It's got nothing to do with lorry drivers, or that a 40 year old finds driving easier at night, or whatever. It's about youngsters, coming back form a night out, with all their mates in the car, at 3am.

People may agree with it, or not, but let's try to at least understand it. They aren't interested in artics, or people coming home from work at 5pm in December, or any other stuff like that.

djohnson

2,642 posts

167 months

Sunday 21st July
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A Winner Is You said:
So if the curfew was, for example, 10pm, what would happen if a new driver left with plenty of time but got stuck in traffic?
The law should require them to carry a tent so they can simply exit the car, pitch the tent and await dawn. Simples.

HTP99

14,658 posts

84 months

Sunday 21st July
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Listening to a discussion about this on LBC last week, a woman rang in agreeing with it, Nick Ferrari asked her; what if someone worked a night shift and finished at 04:00 and the curfuw wasn't lifted until 07:00 she just said he could wait at work until then; Yeahh right!

Apparently they have similar curfews in other countries, how does it work there in respect of young people and employment?

Edited by HTP99 on Sunday 21st July 12:40

Vipers

27,871 posts

172 months

Sunday 21st July
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Unless I missed something and I probably did, do new drivers have more accidents at night than other drivers.

If there are statistics I wonder if they sorted those involved from those who caused the accident.

Where I live cancelled buses mean some can't get to work early.

And as the article said "The move comes as figures suggest one in five drivers are involved in a crash within a year of passing their test."

So 80% of accidents are those who have been driving for some time, doesn't that tell you something.

Personally can't see it happening.

Edited by Vipers on Sunday 21st July 12:43

Cantaloupe

406 posts

4 months

Sunday 21st July
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Vipers said:


And as the article said "The move comes as figures suggest one in five drivers are involved in a crash within a year of passing their test."

So 80% of accidents are those who have been driving for some time, doesn't that tell you something.

Personally can't see it happening.

Edited by Vipers on Sunday 21st July 12:43
Indeed, 20% of crashes involve people who are newish drivers ? like doh !!!!

That's really not a startling statistic, it's like saying 80% of males involved in
penis/vacuum cleaner accidents are under 18, you don't say.

I'd rather the Government target the real purveyors of fender-bending doom,
how about the number of crashes involving drivers over 75, especially low speed crashes involving no other cars.

untakenname

2,140 posts

136 months

Sunday 21st July
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I would like to see under twenties restricted to low power cars like they have in Europe ( that weird Renault is the only one I think you can buy in the the UK)
It's far too easy these days for kids to get powerful cars on PCP, one of my neighbours children got a Fiesta ST for their 18th and within a few months had been modded and then written off.

JagLover said:
A driving test can only measure a certain level of competence. You learn how to actually drive in all the thousands of hours of driving that follow.

For a newly qualified driver to be at the same level as a driver with a few years experience would be prohibitively expensive in terms of the number of driving lessons required.

It would be sensible to have restrictions on drivers post qualification that reflect this.
My driving instructor commented on how I read the road, the knowledge was gained from cycling on the roads a good few years before I got into a car.
Imo everyone should have to drive a moped before being allowed out in a car.

eccles

10,803 posts

166 months

Sunday 21st July
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TwigtheWonderkid said:
I think you are completely missing the point. I'm pretty sure there are stats to show that a very large proportion of KSI accidents involve young drivers, in cars, in the early hours. That's why some black box policies for young drivers come eth a 10-6 curfew in exchange for lower premiums.

It's got nothing to do with lorry drivers, or that a 40 year old finds driving easier at night, or whatever. It's about youngsters, coming back form a night out, with all their mates in the car, at 3am.

People may agree with it, or not, but let's try to at least understand it. They aren't interested in artics, or people coming home from work at 5pm in December, or any other stuff like that.
To me this curfew is aimed at the car fulls of scrotes that gather in the local car parks and wheel spin and try and drift their little front wheel drive hatchbacks round the local roundabouts whilst egged on by their equally dim mates.
I used to know a bloke who was a Maxillo-Facial surgeon. If ever we were out and he saw a small hatchback full of kids he used to shudder. A huge portion of his work was rebuilding the faces and heads of these kids after they had put the car through a hedge or telephone pole, with most of them not wearing seat belts.
This proposal isn't just a random idea, it's aimed at tackling the higher proportion of people of a certain age killing themselves between certain hours.

skyrover

12,186 posts

148 months

Sunday 21st July
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