Harry and Meghan
Discussion
Disastrous said:
I suspect age plays a large part in the anger.
In the younger generations the following is true:
Nobody really cares for the values Rod Liddle espouses as being ‘British’ (thank God) any more.
Nobody cares much about what the Royals do or don’t do.
People DO care about the environment and don’t believe climate change deniers.
They also care about their fellow man and will seek to put human rights over economics.
What makes the gammons angry is that they know this deep down, and that in just a generation or two, everything they’re cross about (Europe, Political Correctness, Woke culture, gender fluidity, the Royals etc) will all be reset as if they’d never been there.
All the things they’ve bayed and howled over will be forgotten as time rolls on and the things they like will be consigned to history.
It’s that really, isn’t it?
Probably not. In the younger generations the following is true:
Nobody really cares for the values Rod Liddle espouses as being ‘British’ (thank God) any more.
Nobody cares much about what the Royals do or don’t do.
People DO care about the environment and don’t believe climate change deniers.
They also care about their fellow man and will seek to put human rights over economics.
What makes the gammons angry is that they know this deep down, and that in just a generation or two, everything they’re cross about (Europe, Political Correctness, Woke culture, gender fluidity, the Royals etc) will all be reset as if they’d never been there.
All the things they’ve bayed and howled over will be forgotten as time rolls on and the things they like will be consigned to history.
It’s that really, isn’t it?
Be careful what you wish for.
IanJ9375 said:
Disastrous said:
I suspect age plays a large part in the anger.
In the younger generations the following is true:
Nobody really cares for the values Rod Liddle espouses as being ‘British’ (thank God) any more.
Nobody cares much about what the Royals do or don’t do.
People DO care about the environment and don’t believe climate change deniers.
They also care about their fellow man and will seek to put human rights over economics.
What makes the gammons angry is that they know this deep down, and that in just a generation or two, everything they’re cross about (Europe, Political Correctness, Woke culture, gender fluidity, the Royals etc) will all be reset as if they’d never been there.
All the things they’ve bayed and howled over will be forgotten as time rolls on and the things they like will be consigned to history.
It’s that really, isn’t it?
Probably for the most part quite accurate - add in the likelihood that Tabloids will be gone so less skewing of opinions as well.In the younger generations the following is true:
Nobody really cares for the values Rod Liddle espouses as being ‘British’ (thank God) any more.
Nobody cares much about what the Royals do or don’t do.
People DO care about the environment and don’t believe climate change deniers.
They also care about their fellow man and will seek to put human rights over economics.
What makes the gammons angry is that they know this deep down, and that in just a generation or two, everything they’re cross about (Europe, Political Correctness, Woke culture, gender fluidity, the Royals etc) will all be reset as if they’d never been there.
All the things they’ve bayed and howled over will be forgotten as time rolls on and the things they like will be consigned to history.
It’s that really, isn’t it?
t". But because the only window to the wider world was the clean and liberal media people just went with the flow. If they said someone was bad everyone believed it. Now you've got social media, YouTube, the internet where people can say "I don't think that person is that bad" and the discover that lots of others agree with them, not just their mates down the pub. So good look with that. And I think you will find it's the lefty papers that are doing the worsed.
As for this young Vs old thing, yes age probably does play a part because as you grow up with life experiences and exposure to the realities of life. You realise how daft you where when you was younger.
And yes I can understand why some get angry it's like finding kids playing with matches in a house or boy racers flying around driving like dicks. You try to explain to them how stupid and dangerous it is and how its probably not going to end well.
But they turn around and tell you "Shut up we are the future we know what we are doing" and now even worse you get retarded adults going then do know what's best we should all listen to them. Sad Man children who have never grown up themselves.
So yeah I can see why some people get pissed off the west at the moment is like watching a 10 year old play with powerful fireworks. You know the little darlings going to end up a burnt mess with a missing hand.
Edited by Not-The-Messiah on Monday 20th January 03:14
unsprung said:
That speech confirms once and for all what has been apparent over a number of days now:
. . . a) This matter was fully known and discussed within the royal family for months on end.
. . . b) The social media announcement that precipitated the public brouhaha was a bid by Meghan and Harry to look the leaders in all this. To essentially trump the Queen (and to me, this seems petulant and manipulative).
. . . c) Ditto the rude decision to leave one's other half an ocean away -- to negotiate on his own a close to the failed agreement.
It's a loss for all, actually. Just when a post-Brexit Britain could use a bit of transatlantic mojo to help with the contracts and trade deals that will take months and years to cultivate... there is but an extinguished lamp.
In this respect, Harry's greatest value, arguably, was as a sort of insider. This doesn't mean that Harry has no value without such status. But it does take away a certain implied leverage.
Some here have said that Harry now hasn't a leg to stand on, and I'm afraid I can't readily disagree with that.
It's impossible to know what his speech means in respect of points a and b. He could refer to many months of discussions just being between the two of them! . . . a) This matter was fully known and discussed within the royal family for months on end.
. . . b) The social media announcement that precipitated the public brouhaha was a bid by Meghan and Harry to look the leaders in all this. To essentially trump the Queen (and to me, this seems petulant and manipulative).
. . . c) Ditto the rude decision to leave one's other half an ocean away -- to negotiate on his own a close to the failed agreement.
It's a loss for all, actually. Just when a post-Brexit Britain could use a bit of transatlantic mojo to help with the contracts and trade deals that will take months and years to cultivate... there is but an extinguished lamp.
In this respect, Harry's greatest value, arguably, was as a sort of insider. This doesn't mean that Harry has no value without such status. But it does take away a certain implied leverage.
Some here have said that Harry now hasn't a leg to stand on, and I'm afraid I can't readily disagree with that.
I read his comment him wanting to continue to serve the Queen etc to mean he wanted his cake and eat it!
He also appears to have used the term "gotten" which makes him sound like a yank.
He will be using his cell to book some flights on Tooesday, next.
Jackass!
poo at Paul's said:
I think you are looking at two extreme types, old and young and pretending everyone is like them, young and old, whereas in reality, they are not. It's not that simple and binary, at all.
You say "young care about the environment". I believe as many "old people" *there's millions of them in the UK, care about the environment, as young. I would also point out, that obviously, those old people have cared about it for longer, and many have actually don't something about it, eg, worked in the industry, contributed to the cause financially, advertised it etc etc.They can "prove" their feelings on the issue through their actions, few young people can / will be able to. If you wanna see how environmentally aware many young people are, have a look at what's left after a typical summer Festival, particularly one that hasn't been marketed to be "green" and allows people to bring what they like to it, and more importantly, leave what they like!
Yes it is laughable to claim the old don't care about the environment. Who were voluntarily recycling by taking their stuff to recycling points before the council started having separate bins?, who make up most of the membership of the national trust?. The only people I have seen picking up litter around their local area are the middle aged and old, those dropping it are overwhelmingly the yoof. You say "young care about the environment". I believe as many "old people" *there's millions of them in the UK, care about the environment, as young. I would also point out, that obviously, those old people have cared about it for longer, and many have actually don't something about it, eg, worked in the industry, contributed to the cause financially, advertised it etc etc.They can "prove" their feelings on the issue through their actions, few young people can / will be able to. If you wanna see how environmentally aware many young people are, have a look at what's left after a typical summer Festival, particularly one that hasn't been marketed to be "green" and allows people to bring what they like to it, and more importantly, leave what they like!
True environmentalism, which would include preserving Britain's natural environment as much as possible and sensible measures around CO2 emissions and recycling, no doubt commands broad support. What doesn't command such support is empty gesturing by hypocrites and attacks on our way of life disguised as environmentalism, usually dreamt up by those living in metropolitan bubbles who have no idea how the rest of the population live.
Edited by JagLover on Monday 20th January 05:47
PH_77 said:
terribly delivered. This kinda speech needs to come from off the cuff, but he is mostly looking down and reading word for word. Which makes you wonder which speech writer penned it.Mentions his mum 3 times to tug on people's emotions.
He also only has one look nowadays, that light blue suit with the white shirt. No wonder he is looking to make more money if he can't afford more.
JagLover said:
Yes it is laughable to claim the old don't care about the environment. Who were voluntarily recycling by taking their stuff to recycling points before the council started having separate bins?, who make up most of the membership of the national trust?. The only people I have seen picking up litter around their local area are the middle aged and old, those dropping it are overwhelmingly the yoof.
True environmentalism, which would include preserving Britain's natural environment as much as possible and sensible measures around CO2 emissions and recycling, no doubt commands broad support. What doesn't command such support is empty gesturing by hypocrites and attacks on our way of life disguised as environmentalism, usually dreamt up by those living in metropolitan bubbles who have no idea how the rest of the population live.
Did we recycle as much before kerbside collection?True environmentalism, which would include preserving Britain's natural environment as much as possible and sensible measures around CO2 emissions and recycling, no doubt commands broad support. What doesn't command such support is empty gesturing by hypocrites and attacks on our way of life disguised as environmentalism, usually dreamt up by those living in metropolitan bubbles who have no idea how the rest of the population live.
Edited by JagLover on Monday 20th January 05:47
Aren't older people the bulk of NT members because they have more time and money and simply like peaceful pursuits?
Don't older people clear up litter because they have more time to do and want their own neighbourhood to look better so they get the benefit? I don't think that's really about making the world better.
By the way, I'm 55 years old and am an NT member.
Randy Winkman said:
Did we recycle as much before kerbside collection?
Make do and mend...……? Older generation were not part of the consumerism that has grown in the last 20 years, merely because there wasn't any! But those values remain, my folks in their 70s are having an Ercol sofa recvovered that they bought in 1974, and their main sofa and Persian rug in their front room is from 1975, and looks like they bought it yesterday! Dining suite from 1975, again, Ercol and looks immaculate. They look after stuff, but also bought quality stuff, as there was no real alternative. They did not travel abroad, my mum went abroad when she was 45, to France and has only flown on a plane once in 73!
Surely the greenest way to live is to buy decent stuff and use it to oblivion / pass it on to someone else.
It is not green to shop at Primark, and lob half what you buy each year into "recycling", its not that green to change your car every 2 or three years, etc etc.
Let's not kid ourselves. My carbon footprint when for the first 20 years of my life, was more than that of my parents in first 20 years of their lives. And my daughters will be substantially more than mine was.
It's all very well being "aware" but to the Young of 2020, I would submit that the actual actions of those before you speak louder than your Facebook feed.
Edited by poo at Paul's on Monday 20th January 08:56
poo at Paul's said:
Randy Winkman said:
Did we recycle as much before kerbside collection?
Make do and mend...……? Older generation were not part of the consumerism that has grown in the last 20 years, merely because there wasn't any! But those values remain, my folks in their 70s are having an Ercol sofa recvovered that they bought in 1974, and their main sofa and Persian rug in their front room is from 1975, and looks like they bought it yesterday! Dining suite from 1975, again, Ercol and looks immaculate. They look after stuff, but also bought quality stuff, as there was no real alternative.
Surely the greenest way to live is to buy decent stuff and use it to oblivion / pass it on to someone else.
It is not green to shop at Primark, and lob half what you buy each year into "recycling", its not that green to change your car every 2 or three years, etc etc.
Let's not kid ourselves. My carbon footprint when for the first 20 years of my life, was more than that of my parents in first 20 years of their lives. And my daughters will be substantially more than mine was.
It's all very well being "aware" but to the Young of 2020, I would submit that the actual actions of those before you speak louder than your Facebook feed.
Randy Winkman said:
JagLover said:
Yes it is laughable to claim the old don't care about the environment. Who were voluntarily recycling by taking their stuff to recycling points before the council started having separate bins?, who make up most of the membership of the national trust?. The only people I have seen picking up litter around their local area are the middle aged and old, those dropping it are overwhelmingly the yoof.
True environmentalism, which would include preserving Britain's natural environment as much as possible and sensible measures around CO2 emissions and recycling, no doubt commands broad support. What doesn't command such support is empty gesturing by hypocrites and attacks on our way of life disguised as environmentalism, usually dreamt up by those living in metropolitan bubbles who have no idea how the rest of the population live.
Did we recycle as much before kerbside collection?True environmentalism, which would include preserving Britain's natural environment as much as possible and sensible measures around CO2 emissions and recycling, no doubt commands broad support. What doesn't command such support is empty gesturing by hypocrites and attacks on our way of life disguised as environmentalism, usually dreamt up by those living in metropolitan bubbles who have no idea how the rest of the population live.
Edited by JagLover on Monday 20th January 05:47
Aren't older people the bulk of NT members because they have more time and money and simply like peaceful pursuits?
Don't older people clear up litter because they have more time to do and want their own neighbourhood to look better so they get the benefit? I don't think that's really about making the world better.
By the way, I'm 55 years old and am an NT member.
Was it the 20 year olds who fly to Benidorm twice a year leave s
t everywhere at festivals and only pay lip service to this because they get social capital from pretending to be green.Of course you dismiss old people picking stuff up as not making the world better. Yeah what selfish idiots. Only thinking of themselves they should just leave it. Of course they arnt throwing it out in the first place because well they are selfish.
It’s not like they do it on beeches and woods and other areas either.
They do it just because they have time that’s it and only it eh. What’s the unemployment rate around you?
I get it old people are bad selfish gammons and young people saints because they believe Greta like you do.
Randy Winkman said:
JagLover said:
Yes it is laughable to claim the old don't care about the environment. Who were voluntarily recycling by taking their stuff to recycling points before the council started having separate bins?, who make up most of the membership of the national trust?. The only people I have seen picking up litter around their local area are the middle aged and old, those dropping it are overwhelmingly the yoof.
True environmentalism, which would include preserving Britain's natural environment as much as possible and sensible measures around CO2 emissions and recycling, no doubt commands broad support. What doesn't command such support is empty gesturing by hypocrites and attacks on our way of life disguised as environmentalism, usually dreamt up by those living in metropolitan bubbles who have no idea how the rest of the population live.
Did we recycle as much before kerbside collection?True environmentalism, which would include preserving Britain's natural environment as much as possible and sensible measures around CO2 emissions and recycling, no doubt commands broad support. What doesn't command such support is empty gesturing by hypocrites and attacks on our way of life disguised as environmentalism, usually dreamt up by those living in metropolitan bubbles who have no idea how the rest of the population live.
Edited by anonymous-user on Monday 20th January 05:47
Aren't older people the bulk of NT members because they have more time and money and simply like peaceful pursuits?
Don't older people clear up litter because they have more time to do and want their own neighbourhood to look better so they get the benefit? I don't think that's really about making the world better.
By the way, I'm 55 years old and am an NT member.
Likewise we’ve always kept our own environment as tidy as we could. Imagine if everybody did that.........
IMO younger people today can’t break the habit of consumerism that they’ve always known. Technology of recent decades has been a boon but there’s a downside too.
Mojooo said:
I feel sorry for Will, I bet he has also wanted to jack it in at times, but its impossible for him to do so.
Nothing at all stopping him. He and his family could relinquish all claims to the throne tomorrow. His great great uncle did, after all. The only problem is that it would put Harry straight back into the line of succession
.It would be rather nice if the lot of them stepped aside and allowed the UK to modernise and move gracefully into the nineteenth century and become a republic.
Randy Winkman said:
JagLover said:
Yes it is laughable to claim the old don't care about the environment. Who were voluntarily recycling by taking their stuff to recycling points before the council started having separate bins?, who make up most of the membership of the national trust?. The only people I have seen picking up litter around their local area are the middle aged and old, those dropping it are overwhelmingly the yoof.
True environmentalism, which would include preserving Britain's natural environment as much as possible and sensible measures around CO2 emissions and recycling, no doubt commands broad support. What doesn't command such support is empty gesturing by hypocrites and attacks on our way of life disguised as environmentalism, usually dreamt up by those living in metropolitan bubbles who have no idea how the rest of the population live.
Did we recycle as much before kerbside collection?True environmentalism, which would include preserving Britain's natural environment as much as possible and sensible measures around CO2 emissions and recycling, no doubt commands broad support. What doesn't command such support is empty gesturing by hypocrites and attacks on our way of life disguised as environmentalism, usually dreamt up by those living in metropolitan bubbles who have no idea how the rest of the population live.
Edited by JagLover on Monday 20th January 05:47
Aren't older people the bulk of NT members because they have more time and money and simply like peaceful pursuits?
Don't older people clear up litter because they have more time to do and want their own neighbourhood to look better so they get the benefit? I don't think that's really about making the world better.
By the way, I'm 55 years old and am an NT member.
and wet behind the ears too! That's the trouble with you 'youngsters', know nowt. 
How far do you want to go back? Beyond rag and bone man and Victorian?
Here's a little for you. You (youngsters lol) can find all this - just google!
Just before and after the wars very little was thrown away.
There was a thriving trade in rag and bone, plus the use of cinders as pathway surfacing meant that there was really no call for bin men.
Expansion of cities and lifestyle changes after the first war saw the start of municipal refuse collections.
By the 1930s most urban areas had a weekly collection.
In London the Ford company took the rubbish and fuelled their power plant at Dagenham and also sorted out tins and so on to add to their smelters.
I can recall it being an era of deposit/cashback for jars and bottles - you probably think Corona is a beer! Corona came to your door by lorry, they took your empties and you got money back - did we recycle, oh dear!
Hey, Randy, did you know Coke came in a green glass bottle once upon a time. After you'd downed it, you put it back in the machine and got a few pennies (not pence) back (ie deposit).
Did we recycle?
hutchst said:
How many sub-30s today have a garden? Plant trees? Mow lawns?
Around here the first thing sub thirties do when they move into their first property is concrete the front lawn for a driveway. Gardening is a rare hobby as it doesn't involve the internet or mobile phones and can involve effort, dedication and creativity.and the discomfort of being outside in inclement weather.The emerging one is "eWaste"...
For years, the tech savvy youth (me included) have just discarded old tech as the new iteration has come along. Things like WEEE have done absolutely fk all.
Now? The raw materials are getting scarcer, more valuable, etc. Of course, these are materials that are utterly environmentally horrific to extract, refine, etc. Not the clause celebre of carbon dioxide - proper, biosphere destroying heavy metals and massive toxicity by products (all done thousands of miles away, where the rainbow coloured ground and birth defects aren't visible).
Guess what? Suddenly they give a st. Conservative estimates put the value at over £50Bn of recoverable materials...
Long held phrase - where there's muck, there's brass. I wonder if a pretty cool Mclaren driving PHer is getting onto that line? Iirc, he's been pushing 'proper' recycling processes for years.
For years, the tech savvy youth (me included) have just discarded old tech as the new iteration has come along. Things like WEEE have done absolutely f
k all. Now? The raw materials are getting scarcer, more valuable, etc. Of course, these are materials that are utterly environmentally horrific to extract, refine, etc. Not the clause celebre of carbon dioxide - proper, biosphere destroying heavy metals and massive toxicity by products (all done thousands of miles away, where the rainbow coloured ground and birth defects aren't visible).
Guess what? Suddenly they give a s
t. Conservative estimates put the value at over £50Bn of recoverable materials...Long held phrase - where there's muck, there's brass. I wonder if a pretty cool Mclaren driving PHer is getting onto that line? Iirc, he's been pushing 'proper' recycling processes for years.
Losing the half-in half-out position they were aiming for is a big defeat.
Within a couple of years he'll be more famous for being Prince William's slacker brother than anything else.
I think Meghan had correctly calculated that the endorsement value of a working-and-serving prince is miles higher than an over-privileged and under-talented reclusive jolly-boy, which is what he's quickly going to become, in perception terms.
The Queen knew that, and rightly said 'in or out, sunshine. I'm not having you representing me and Cialis. Choose.'
Within a couple of years he'll be more famous for being Prince William's slacker brother than anything else.
I think Meghan had correctly calculated that the endorsement value of a working-and-serving prince is miles higher than an over-privileged and under-talented reclusive jolly-boy, which is what he's quickly going to become, in perception terms.
The Queen knew that, and rightly said 'in or out, sunshine. I'm not having you representing me and Cialis. Choose.'
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