Electric Scooters
Discussion
Sway said:
You get sweaty.
It's why, whilst I adore my longboards and cruiser skateboards, I don't use one on the rare days I go into work by train.
I would use an e-skateboard... I might use an e-scooter.
This.It's why, whilst I adore my longboards and cruiser skateboards, I don't use one on the rare days I go into work by train.
I would use an e-skateboard... I might use an e-scooter.
I have an office job. I don't want to arrive a sweaty mess. I drive the 4 miles to the station, then walk or tube to the office.
An electric scooter would mean I could do the bits between trains in a convenient, fast and green way.
I honestly believe that small electric personal transport has a huge amount to offer. We run 3 (soon to be 4) cars in our family. The vast majority of the journeys could be done in/on something electric with tiny range.
We really only "need" 1 proper car.
ReverendCounter said:
Like medical marijuana now being legally available (in some countries) due to the ongoing use of it when it was illegal by those who desperately needed it?
How was that irresponsible? How was it not irresponsible of those governments who criminalised patients who relied on it?
Absolutely nothing irresponsible about middle class people sustaining a black market in illegally grown substances that utilise industrial scale slave labour and human trafficking to ensure a high quality, low cost product is readily available to knife-wielding street-gangs.How was that irresponsible? How was it not irresponsible of those governments who criminalised patients who relied on it?
Evanivitch said:
ReverendCounter said:
Like medical marijuana now being legally available (in some countries) due to the ongoing use of it when it was illegal by those who desperately needed it?
How was that irresponsible? How was it not irresponsible of those governments who criminalised patients who relied on it?
Absolutely nothing irresponsible about middle class people sustaining a black market in illegally grown substances that utilise industrial scale slave labour and human trafficking to ensure a high quality, low cost product is readily available to knife-wielding street-gangs.How was that irresponsible? How was it not irresponsible of those governments who criminalised patients who relied on it?
eldar said:
In Spain, the elderly and incontinent have added electric scooters to the list of things to be banned. 2 stroke scooters, bicycles and mobility scooters are still the top 3 favourites. Cardigans are still very popular.
Talking of the elderly, I'd like to have those mobility scooters better controlled: mandatory insurance, training and licensing. They can be a bloody menace. I had some old biddy ram my legs from behind when I was standing in a shopping centre, then lose control and ram me again.I have seen them in Paris where they are more common than rats and about as lovely. They are generally a menace there. Happy to see them used if there are sensible measures to ensure safety and accountability (of users and owners).
ReverendCounter said:
Like medical marijuana now being legally available (in some countries) due to the ongoing use of it when it was illegal by those who desperately needed it?
How was that irresponsible? How was it not irresponsible of those governments who criminalised patients who relied on it?
Similarly, women driving in the middle east - now legally entitled to do so, due to brave women standing up to their government despite the risks.
Ok let's have one more go. Anyone responsible riding a dangerous machine on the road which is capable of seriously injuring someone if it hits them would take out insurance to cover the risk of doing so. Can they take out third party insurance which covers riding an electric scooter on the road? How was that irresponsible? How was it not irresponsible of those governments who criminalised patients who relied on it?
Similarly, women driving in the middle east - now legally entitled to do so, due to brave women standing up to their government despite the risks.
Edited by ReverendCounter on Saturday 1st February 16:32
I personally don't care how these d
heads risk their own lives. I do object to them risking the lives of my family and being uninsured in doing so. To claim that it is possible to do this responsibly is just wrong. Forgot to add, those I see around London clearly believe there are a whole range of laws which don't apply to them. If you are riding a machine illegally anyway then why bother about pedestrian crossing, traffic lights, whether you are on the road or the pavement. Their law breaking does not begin and end with just one.
Edited by richie99 on Sunday 2nd February 19:37
richie99 said:
ReverendCounter said:
Like medical marijuana now being legally available (in some countries) due to the ongoing use of it when it was illegal by those who desperately needed it?
How was that irresponsible? How was it not irresponsible of those governments who criminalised patients who relied on it?
Similarly, women driving in the middle east - now legally entitled to do so, due to brave women standing up to their government despite the risks.
Ok let's have one more go. Anyone responsible riding a dangerous machine on the road which is capable of seriously injuring someone if it hits them would take out insurance to cover the risk of doing so. Can they take out third party insurance which covers riding an electric scooter on the road? How was that irresponsible? How was it not irresponsible of those governments who criminalised patients who relied on it?
Similarly, women driving in the middle east - now legally entitled to do so, due to brave women standing up to their government despite the risks.
Edited by ReverendCounter on Saturday 1st February 16:32
I personally don't care how these d
heads risk their own lives. I do object to them risking the lives of my family and being uninsured in doing so. To claim that it is possible to do this responsibly is just wrong. Forgot to add, those I see around London clearly believe there are a whole range of laws which don't apply to them. If you are riding a machine illegally anyway then why bother about pedestrian crossing, traffic lights, whether you are on the road or the pavement. Their law breaking does not begin and end with just one.
Edited by richie99 on Sunday 2nd February 19:37
Koln-RS said:
Well, it begs the question, if I was crossing the road, would I rather be hit by a 10kg (+rider) bike or scooter, that is uninsured, or a 2000kg vehicle that is insured 
PH rule 17:A small child on a bike contains the destructive power of Hiroshima and Nagasaki combined...
I can't see any real logical argument that can be used that puts e-scooters/ e-bikes especially the 15mph ones at any danger level above a normal pebble bike.
The biggest danger is users doing stupid things or most of the time other people doing stupid things in my experience, but thats the same with a normal cycling. Pedestrians not paying attention just stepping out. Vehicle drivers just ignoring you like you don't exist just pulling out in front of you. But this would decrease the more and more you get on the roads because people will start to have a conscious knowledge of them when driving. This as been proven with cyclists there is safety in numbers.
As someone who drives far, far more than I use a ebike. I would rather have a load of ebikes that can do 30mph and keep up with the flow of traffic in towns and cities than a load of 15mph scooters and bikes you constantly need to overtake and squeeze past blocking the road.
The biggest danger is users doing stupid things or most of the time other people doing stupid things in my experience, but thats the same with a normal cycling. Pedestrians not paying attention just stepping out. Vehicle drivers just ignoring you like you don't exist just pulling out in front of you. But this would decrease the more and more you get on the roads because people will start to have a conscious knowledge of them when driving. This as been proven with cyclists there is safety in numbers.
As someone who drives far, far more than I use a ebike. I would rather have a load of ebikes that can do 30mph and keep up with the flow of traffic in towns and cities than a load of 15mph scooters and bikes you constantly need to overtake and squeeze past blocking the road.
Not-The-Messiah said:
I can't see any real logical argument that can be used that puts e-scooters/ e-bikes especially the 15mph ones at any danger level above a normal pebble bike.
It is the belief how they should be used that causes the problem and introduces the danger.People know you should not ride a bike on the pavement, so the vast majority that do cycle on the pavement realise they should not be there and give pedestrians the 'right of way' and it is only a small minority that ride on the pavement who behave like complete
s.People who ride e-scooters on the pavement believe they should be there, so the majority do ride like complete
s and do not give pedestrians the 'right of way' but believe pedestrians should jump of their way.Not-The-Messiah said:
I can't see any real logical argument that can be used that puts e-scooters/ e-bikes especially the 15mph ones at any danger level above a normal pebble bike.
The only one I can think of is the smaller wheels mean they aren't as well equipped to deal with bumps/steps/potholes in the road. Coupled with wobbly stems they can be unstable on rough surfaces, which is a bit of a problem in the UK at the moment.Brainpox said:
Not-The-Messiah said:
I can't see any real logical argument that can be used that puts e-scooters/ e-bikes especially the 15mph ones at any danger level above a normal pebble bike.
The only one I can think of is the smaller wheels mean they aren't as well equipped to deal with bumps/steps/potholes in the road. Coupled with wobbly stems they can be unstable on rough surfaces, which is a bit of a problem in the UK at the moment.It is riding on the pavement that is dangerous to me.
PF62 said:
People who ride e-scooters on the pavement believe they should be there, so the majority do ride like complete s and do not give pedestrians the 'right of way' but believe pedestrians should jump of their way.
Following on from my real world ownership experience several months ago.. Still using it, still no issues except a pinch flat when I got lazy about pumping up the tyres. s and do not give pedestrians the 'right of way' but believe pedestrians should jump of their way.Back on topic, riding on pavements - whether it's bikes or escooters is not something people do as a first choice. Pavements are bumpy, even worse surfaced than roads and have frequent give way points; noone would choose to ride on them unless the other options were worse. The solution is more and better bike lanes
richie99 said:
Ok let's put up a strawman
Your comment I responded to was along the lines of, breaking laws makes you irresponsible. You're just wrong on that point - its very clear that breaking the law is in some cases is absolutely vital for the betterment of mankind:Indian Independence Movement - led to independence in 1945
Civil Rights Movement - led to a raft of new laws being drafted to establish rights for African Americans
There are very clearly times in history when it is necessary to break the law - look at what's happening in Hong Kong - clearly, breaking the law is sometimes very necessary.
However I'm not comparing riding a powered scooter on the pavement to any of the above of previous examples, but you do need to realise that breaking the law doesn't make you irresponsible in every case.
I don’t think anyone would advocate using them for much more than the final mile of a journey, many of which are in town or city centres and in heavy, slow traffic. It’s the “final mile“ problem that most planners and councils are trying to resolve.
Segregation from cars seems to be the only answer, they already use the shared pavements and cycle paths in Bristol without fuss. it’s one less car which is a real positive
Segregation from cars seems to be the only answer, they already use the shared pavements and cycle paths in Bristol without fuss. it’s one less car which is a real positive
Koln-RS said:
Well, it begs the question, if I was crossing the road, would I rather be hit by a 10kg (+rider) bike or scooter, that is uninsured, or a 2000kg vehicle that is insured
I'd rather NOT be hit by a 15kg (+rider) bike that has effective braking power than be hit by said escooter with the braking capability of a container ship.oyster said:
Koln-RS said:
Well, it begs the question, if I was crossing the road, would I rather be hit by a 10kg (+rider) bike or scooter, that is uninsured, or a 2000kg vehicle that is insured
I'd rather NOT be hit by a 15kg (+rider) bike that has effective braking power than be hit by said escooter with the braking capability of a container ship.Braking capability being irrelevant of course - impact speed and mass being the pertinent factors, along with points of impact.
Mass is on the scooter's side, as is the point of impact.
Speed could be either depending on exact situation.
Sway said:
Bugger all difference in braking capability between bike and scooter.
Braking capability being irrelevant of course - impact speed and mass being the pertinent factors, along with points of impact.
Mass is on the scooter's side, as is the point of impact.
Speed could be either depending on exact situation.
An e-scooter can easily weigh 14kg and have sweet F'all braking capability. That's very little mass difference to a decent commuter bicycle.Braking capability being irrelevant of course - impact speed and mass being the pertinent factors, along with points of impact.
Mass is on the scooter's side, as is the point of impact.
Speed could be either depending on exact situation.
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