University bans all beef from campus...........
Discussion
El stovey said:
Again though, like the fruit from Thailand instead of meat, the argument is that although they admit they’re doing harm with the flight, they’re doing more good overall with whatever they’re doing in the conference.
Obviously not everyone agrees with this view but that’s why it happens. Same with celebrities, they justify the flight by the good they think they’re doing overall with raising the profile of causes or raising funding or whatever.
They're special. These rules are for those who are less equal.Obviously not everyone agrees with this view but that’s why it happens. Same with celebrities, they justify the flight by the good they think they’re doing overall with raising the profile of causes or raising funding or whatever.
otolith said:
El stovey said:
Again though, like the fruit from Thailand instead of meat, the argument is that although they admit they’re doing harm with the flight, they’re doing more good overall with whatever they’re doing in the conference.
Obviously not everyone agrees with this view but that’s why it happens. Same with celebrities, they justify the flight by the good they think they’re doing overall with raising the profile of causes or raising funding or whatever.
They're special. These rules are for those who are less equal.Obviously not everyone agrees with this view but that’s why it happens. Same with celebrities, they justify the flight by the good they think they’re doing overall with raising the profile of causes or raising funding or whatever.
biggbn said:
So what's your solution? We stop eating non meat and concentrate on meat? Are all the experts simultaneously wrong? I am genuinely interested as I like to see both sides of arguments and I know we are all guilty of confirmation bias to an extent
All the lamb I see eats grass and drinks from streams, then pisses on the very same land from whence the water came.Edited by biggbn on Tuesday 13th August 12:53
They eat the grass which absorbs the co2 as it grows.
From what I can see, lamb is pretty carbon and water neutral.
Yes it’ll ‘use’ water, but then it pisses it out.
What other mechanism can it use to destroy water forever?
What other way can it detriment the water in the natural environment if sustainably farmed?
Carbon. We can grow trees and burn them, it’s carbon neutral.
We can grow grass to feed to lambs to then eat. Carbon neutral.
And if hill farmers didn’t farm lamb? Well they farm sheep because it’s hilly and unsuitable for arable purposes.
So what do you do? Have millions of hectares full of rabbits, all eating grass and taking in water, all to the same levels the sheep or cattle did before.
Something fills the gap in the biosphere.
Unless you propose to kill all mammals that dare to exist, to ‘save’ the planet.
I’m all for people eating less meat overall, but eating more sustainable, quality, high welfare meat.
We’ve got too used to treating animals like crap in high intensity farming and making meat cheap.
That’s what the problem is.
Fundamentally meat’s/animals environmental credentials are top notch.
They existed on this planet long before humans and ‘agriculture’
The problems on environment are unsustainable farming practices, which are just as damaging be it meat or plant.
matrignano said:
grumbledoak said:
And we should eat food produced locally, not food grown wherever it is cheapest and flown around the world for maximum profit. Geography and the seasons will dictate which crops or animals we grow.
I popped to Tesco at lunch and was quite shocked that their apples mostly came from South Africa and... freaking New Zealand!!!£2 for a bunch of apples that were literally flown in from the other side of the planet.
Madness
New Zealand Lamb
Fish from Honduras or Vietnam.
Strawberries from Poland... it’s all bloody ridiculous.
The above and lots lots more produce can be (and is) grown/reared in the UK, so how does it make financial or economical sense to fly or ship it across the world?
Our household are big proponents of home grown and locally sourced produce, where possible. It’s not hard to do but for some reason it’s often more expensive. Very frustrating.
ker. There are only 3 reasons for this mumbo jumbo. Funding, funding and funding. For the last 30 yrs the only way to get free money to finance any research career, and I do mean career is to somehow link your research to global warming, climate change or whatever else saint Attenborough is calling it.
Then the world listens to these “experts” who are not exactly Impartial after years on the gravy train. The luvvies, hippies and delusional all trot along believing and promoting this misguided belief we can stop this planets cycles.
It’s the greatest con trick ever played on the human race.
Then the world listens to these “experts” who are not exactly Impartial after years on the gravy train. The luvvies, hippies and delusional all trot along believing and promoting this misguided belief we can stop this planets cycles.
It’s the greatest con trick ever played on the human race.
andy_s said:
otolith said:
El stovey said:
Again though, like the fruit from Thailand instead of meat, the argument is that although they admit they’re doing harm with the flight, they’re doing more good overall with whatever they’re doing in the conference.
Obviously not everyone agrees with this view but that’s why it happens. Same with celebrities, they justify the flight by the good they think they’re doing overall with raising the profile of causes or raising funding or whatever.
They're special. These rules are for those who are less equal.Obviously not everyone agrees with this view but that’s why it happens. Same with celebrities, they justify the flight by the good they think they’re doing overall with raising the profile of causes or raising funding or whatever.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
The pub next to Goldsmiths does a very nice burger already: http://www.thefatwalrus.com/Mikebentley said:
There are only 3 reasons for this mumbo jumbo. Funding, funding and funding. For the last 30 yrs the only way to get free money to finance any research career, and I do mean career is to somehow link your research to global warming, climate change or whatever else saint Attenborough is calling it.
Then the world listens to these “experts” who are not exactly Impartial after years on the gravy train. The luvvies, hippies and delusional all trot along believing and promoting this misguided belief we can stop this planets cycles.
It’s the greatest con trick ever played on the human race.
Why haven’t you exposed it? Then the world listens to these “experts” who are not exactly Impartial after years on the gravy train. The luvvies, hippies and delusional all trot along believing and promoting this misguided belief we can stop this planets cycles.
It’s the greatest con trick ever played on the human race.
biggbn said:
Thanks for this, interesting.
And apologies for my wording, I am genuinely interested in all potential solutions, if that didn't come across, apologies
Edit, I have no fear of running out of oil, sooner the better.
Is there not also a school of thought that says less livestock farming would help less arable farming and that is what livestock eat, or is that to simplistic?
Sorry to pick on you for this... but I assume your reference to running out of oil “ sooner the better” is in turn a reference to using it as a fuel; combustion for moving us about, heating whatever.And apologies for my wording, I am genuinely interested in all potential solutions, if that didn't come across, apologies
Edit, I have no fear of running out of oil, sooner the better.
Is there not also a school of thought that says less livestock farming would help less arable farming and that is what livestock eat, or is that to simplistic?
Edited by biggbn on Tuesday 13th August 13:09
I do agree for some of it. Passenger cars for example, and it is true that the main consumer of oil is transportation and power generation. But heavy fuel oil/diesel and heavy duty diesel literally make the world go round...they are the worlds prime mover. Whether that be moving earth, goods or people.
Then there are all the non-combustion uses for oil, the list of products and uses is really quite something: lubricants, fertilisers, drugs, plastics, clothing, electronics even children’s crayons. At this point, wishing for oil to go away is wishing for the modern world as we know it to cease. I’m not sure how many people realise this when they call for the end of oil.
Otispunkmeyer said:
biggbn said:
Thanks for this, interesting.
And apologies for my wording, I am genuinely interested in all potential solutions, if that didn't come across, apologies
Edit, I have no fear of running out of oil, sooner the better.
Is there not also a school of thought that says less livestock farming would help less arable farming and that is what livestock eat, or is that to simplistic?
Sorry to pick on you for this... but I assume your reference to running out of oil “ sooner the better” is in turn a reference to using it as a fuel; combustion for moving us about, heating whatever.And apologies for my wording, I am genuinely interested in all potential solutions, if that didn't come across, apologies
Edit, I have no fear of running out of oil, sooner the better.
Is there not also a school of thought that says less livestock farming would help less arable farming and that is what livestock eat, or is that to simplistic?
Edited by biggbn on Tuesday 13th August 13:09
I do agree for some of it. Passenger cars for example, and it is true that the main consumer of oil is transportation and power generation. But heavy fuel oil/diesel and heavy duty diesel literally make the world go round...they are the worlds prime mover. Whether that be moving earth, goods or people.
Then there are all the non-combustion uses for oil, the list of products and uses is really quite something: lubricants, fertilisers, drugs, plastics, clothing, electronics even children’s crayons. At this point, wishing for oil to go away is wishing for the modern world as we know it to cease. I’m not sure how many people realise this when they call for the end of oil.
Mr Whippy said:
biggbn said:
So what's your solution? We stop eating non meat and concentrate on meat? Are all the experts simultaneously wrong? I am genuinely interested as I like to see both sides of arguments and I know we are all guilty of confirmation bias to an extent
All the lamb I see eats grass and drinks from streams, then pisses on the very same land from whence the water came.Edited by biggbn on Tuesday 13th August 12:53
They eat the grass which absorbs the co2 as it grows.
From what I can see, lamb is pretty carbon and water neutral.
Yes it’ll ‘use’ water, but then it pisses it out.
What other mechanism can it use to destroy water forever?
What other way can it detriment the water in the natural environment if sustainably farmed?
Carbon. We can grow trees and burn them, it’s carbon neutral.
We can grow grass to feed to lambs to then eat. Carbon neutral.
And if hill farmers didn’t farm lamb? Well they farm sheep because it’s hilly and unsuitable for arable purposes.
So what do you do? Have millions of hectares full of rabbits, all eating grass and taking in water, all to the same levels the sheep or cattle did before.
Something fills the gap in the biosphere.
Unless you propose to kill all mammals that dare to exist, to ‘save’ the planet.
I’m all for people eating less meat overall, but eating more sustainable, quality, high welfare meat.
We’ve got too used to treating animals like crap in high intensity farming and making meat cheap.
That’s what the problem is.
Fundamentally meat’s/animals environmental credentials are top notch.
They existed on this planet long before humans and ‘agriculture’
The problems on environment are unsustainable farming practices, which are just as damaging be it meat or plant.
Just need the world to get past the elephant in the room and discuss how that's going to happen.
I am unexpectedly inebriated this tuesday night following an unexpected guest. But-
You know how supermarkets have the price of chicken (say 5.99) and the price per kilo- allowing you to directly compare financial values? (and which supermarkets still rail against, using different weights/units to confuse comparison).
Well how about a standardised carbon/kg label added as well, so you can compare your Welsh lamb from kiwi lamb, or Scottish pint of milk to your Jersey one.
As highlighted in this thread, many people want at least the knowledge to control their carbon footprint, but commercial presures and capitalist values will always favour immediate economic factors over environmental ones.
Thinking Fast and Slow by Kahneman, etc, suggests we still won't be rational in our choices, but at least the effort in finding consumer information won't be so assymetric.
You know how supermarkets have the price of chicken (say 5.99) and the price per kilo- allowing you to directly compare financial values? (and which supermarkets still rail against, using different weights/units to confuse comparison).
Well how about a standardised carbon/kg label added as well, so you can compare your Welsh lamb from kiwi lamb, or Scottish pint of milk to your Jersey one.
As highlighted in this thread, many people want at least the knowledge to control their carbon footprint, but commercial presures and capitalist values will always favour immediate economic factors over environmental ones.
Thinking Fast and Slow by Kahneman, etc, suggests we still won't be rational in our choices, but at least the effort in finding consumer information won't be so assymetric.
Mr Whippy said:
All the lamb I see eats grass and drinks from streams, then pisses on the very same land from whence the water came.
Breaking news, it doesn't.Ever seen a farmer with a bag of feed on the back of his quad? Ever seen the sheep in the winter sheds?
Sheep farming, at present, is environmentally damaging because it's a race to the bottom on cost. Fleece is worth so little today that popular breeds now drop their fleece instead of requiring shearing. Government subsidies maintain the industry to a massive extent.
But the industry can adapt. Hardier breeds, better use of the land and lower density farming allow you to sell a premium product.
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