University bans all beef from campus...........
Discussion
Evanivitch said:
Except Beef isn't raised in pasture. They spend atleast a third of the year in sheds. They're fed a multitude of supplements. Even the pasture they are fed on is heavily managed to ensure maximum productivity. The idea that it's "just grass" is lies by the industry.
Have you ever worked on a farm that has beef cattle?I’ll agree it’s changed a lot since I was a kid in the 80s.
Optimisation for margin is hurting the industry.
Who is to blame for that?
Government with APR on IHT, making land values shoot through the roof, making farms have to be giant profit making machines.
Imports competing with domestic produce because the import countries have lower standards/quality.
If you want to ‘save the world’ then stop giving money to businesses who sell you the highest profit margin cheap crap.
It comes at a cost.
Buy lower margin high quality stuff.
Mr Whippy said:
Evanivitch said:
Except Beef isn't raised in pasture. They spend atleast a third of the year in sheds. They're fed a multitude of supplements. Even the pasture they are fed on is heavily managed to ensure maximum productivity. The idea that it's "just grass" is lies by the industry.
Have you ever worked on a farm that has beef cattle?I’ll agree it’s changed a lot since I was a kid in the 80s.
Optimisation for margin is hurting the industry.
Who is to blame for that?
Government with APR on IHT, making land values shoot through the roof, making farms have to be giant profit making machines.
Imports competing with domestic produce because the import countries have lower standards/quality.
If you want to ‘save the world’ then stop giving money to businesses who sell you the highest profit margin cheap crap.
It comes at a cost.
Buy lower margin high quality stuff.
CambsBill said:
Just to put your mind to rest, there's no way that fruit will have been airfreighted - the costings just don't work. Seafreight (using bunker fuel mind, one of the dirtiest going) is the way for virtually all fruit & veg transported over long distances.
English apples are probably a week or so away from harvest still, so S Hemisphere will be the only fresh stuff available at the moment
HTH
So what do they do, pick the apples 2-3 weeks before they are ripe and let them ripen on the boat?English apples are probably a week or so away from harvest still, so S Hemisphere will be the only fresh stuff available at the moment
HTH
otolith said:
matrignano said:
So what do they do, pick the apples 2-3 weeks before they are ripe and let them ripen on the boat?
Same as all the other fruit, I expect - pick it barely ripe and chill the crap out of it.Not too bad with apples, pretty horrible with stone fruit.
It also works for UK fruit as well - you don't think they're still picking Cox's in February do you?
Kawasicki said:
They were all beef cattle, but I haven't worked on farms for 15 years now, so maybe it has changed a lot.
These mega big corporate profit margin farms probably have changed a lot.Smaller family farms, likely not as much.
If society wants to eat cheap junk they can. And then pay again when they ‘worry’ about the environmental impact, then pay again in their health from eating crap.
I’ll just pay more for organic, eat less, and enjoy a clear conscience on environment, welfare and my own health.
Job jobbed.
This underlying issue on anthropogenic via mammals climate change b
ks is just that.If it’s an issue and you care. Don’t buy the factory meat and other foods.
If you still feel it’s that bad, go live in the woods like 10,000 BC.
There is not much choice in between,
Mr Whippy said:
Have you ever worked on a farm that has beef cattle?
I’ll agree it’s changed a lot since I was a kid in the 80s.
Optimisation for margin is hurting the industry.
Who is to blame for that?
Government with APR on IHT, making land values shoot through the roof, making farms have to be giant profit making machines.
Imports competing with domestic produce because the import countries have lower standards/quality.
If you want to ‘save the world’ then stop giving money to businesses who sell you the highest profit margin cheap crap.
It comes at a cost.
Buy lower margin high quality stuff.
Never worked it, but I grew up amongst it and still do live and work amongst farmers.I’ll agree it’s changed a lot since I was a kid in the 80s.
Optimisation for margin is hurting the industry.
Who is to blame for that?
Government with APR on IHT, making land values shoot through the roof, making farms have to be giant profit making machines.
Imports competing with domestic produce because the import countries have lower standards/quality.
If you want to ‘save the world’ then stop giving money to businesses who sell you the highest profit margin cheap crap.
It comes at a cost.
Buy lower margin high quality stuff.
The systems have changed over the years, but it's all happening behind the packaging. Townies are blissfully unaware and still think that cows spend all day, all year in the fields grazing grass and the industry perpetuates the myth despite knowing full well that modern breeds would go lame and starve if left in a British field over winter and at the current stocking density.
Mr Whippy said:
My family and many friends have farmed sheep all their lives.
Nothing super fancy here like special breeds or organic. Just bog standard farming on 100 - 2000 acre plots.
Low grass growth in winter requires feed. Mainly for pregnant sheep who need good nutrition.
Or perhaps as a supplement for lambs in a particularly bad grass growth spell... but that’s mostly an issue with over stocking really.
Even most those standard breeds aren't the hardy breeds that would take a full season on the hills.Nothing super fancy here like special breeds or organic. Just bog standard farming on 100 - 2000 acre plots.
Low grass growth in winter requires feed. Mainly for pregnant sheep who need good nutrition.
Or perhaps as a supplement for lambs in a particularly bad grass growth spell... but that’s mostly an issue with over stocking really.
It all comes down to stock density. It can be sustainable, but current practices mean it's not. Knepp Castle farm is an extreme example but one that proves that animal farming doesn't have to be abolished, it just has to be re-alligned.
Also, the discussion on wildlife, what you see on the hills now is what has resulted from generations of intensive grazing. It's not right to think that is naturally what would occur if grazing was dramatically reduced.
RTB said:
Ironically it seems that the best form of population control is to have a well educated, healthy population with a good standard of living. If we can make a good standard of living more sustainable, then the population issue will probably look after itself.
I imagine a lot depends on what the population takes. It seems that the educated types carbon footprint it all over the planet taking selfies and buying expensive items while the non-university types will stay fairly local and leave less of an impact on the planet. Mr Whippy said:
These mega big corporate profit margin farms probably have changed a lot.
Smaller family farms, likely not as much.
If society wants to eat cheap junk they can. And then pay again when they ‘worry’ about the environmental impact, then pay again in their health from eating crap.
I’ll just pay more for organic, eat less, and enjoy a clear conscience on environment, welfare and my own health.
Job jobbed.
This underlying issue on anthropogenic via mammals climate change bks is just that.
If it’s an issue and you care. Don’t buy the factory meat and other foods.
If you still feel it’s that bad, go live in the woods like 10,000 BC.
There is not much choice in between,
That was my choice before giving up, organic only. It is, surprisingly, no guarantee of animal welfare, but I concur it is definitely worth the extra expenseSmaller family farms, likely not as much.
If society wants to eat cheap junk they can. And then pay again when they ‘worry’ about the environmental impact, then pay again in their health from eating crap.
I’ll just pay more for organic, eat less, and enjoy a clear conscience on environment, welfare and my own health.
Job jobbed.
This underlying issue on anthropogenic via mammals climate change b
ks is just that.If it’s an issue and you care. Don’t buy the factory meat and other foods.
If you still feel it’s that bad, go live in the woods like 10,000 BC.
There is not much choice in between,
biggbn said:
That was my choice before giving up, organic only. It is, surprisingly, no guarantee of animal welfare, but I concur it is definitely worth the extra expense
Benefits of organic go further than just the conditions the animals are kept in. The difference to humans, between eating grass-fed beef and cereal-fed beef is strongly debated, but seems to be there.I have gone a little "good life" in respect of beef, we keep two dexters, they run out all year and we get a new steer once a year and the older of the three then goes to slaughter. I get a freezer full of grass fed extensively reared quality beef for about £600 all in. Its not the cost saving you notice its the taste!
I know not everyone can do it but saves me a lot of mowing and strimming and I like seeing them about. Makes a huge difference if you have the space and facilities
I know not everyone can do it but saves me a lot of mowing and strimming and I like seeing them about. Makes a huge difference if you have the space and facilities
bnseven said:
I have gone a little "good life" in respect of beef, we keep two dexters, they run out all year and we get a new steer once a year and the older of the three then goes to slaughter. I get a freezer full of grass fed extensively reared quality beef for about £600 all in. Its not the cost saving you notice its the taste!
I know not everyone can do it but saves me a lot of mowing and strimming and I like seeing them about. Makes a huge difference if you have the space and facilities
What a brilliant way if doing thingsI know not everyone can do it but saves me a lot of mowing and strimming and I like seeing them about. Makes a huge difference if you have the space and facilities
Digga said:
biggbn said:
That was my choice before giving up, organic only. It is, surprisingly, no guarantee of animal welfare, but I concur it is definitely worth the extra expense
Benefits of organic go further than just the conditions the animals are kept in. The difference to humans, between eating grass-fed beef and cereal-fed beef is strongly debated, but seems to be there.Digga said:
biggbn said:
That was my choice before giving up, organic only. It is, surprisingly, no guarantee of animal welfare, but I concur it is definitely worth the extra expense
Benefits of organic go further than just the conditions the animals are kept in. The difference to humans, between eating grass-fed beef and cereal-fed beef is strongly debated, but seems to be there.Evanivitch said:
Even most those standard breeds aren't the hardy breeds that would take a full season on the hills.
It all comes down to stock density. It can be sustainable, but current practices mean it's not. Knepp Castle farm is an extreme example but one that proves that animal farming doesn't have to be abolished, it just has to be re-alligned.
Also, the discussion on wildlife, what you see on the hills now is what has resulted from generations of intensive grazing. It's not right to think that is naturally what would occur if grazing was dramatically reduced.
You are falling into the trap of using broad brush statements that don’t reflect the range of different production approaches across the UK beef industry. It all comes down to stock density. It can be sustainable, but current practices mean it's not. Knepp Castle farm is an extreme example but one that proves that animal farming doesn't have to be abolished, it just has to be re-alligned.
Also, the discussion on wildlife, what you see on the hills now is what has resulted from generations of intensive grazing. It's not right to think that is naturally what would occur if grazing was dramatically reduced.
Some may be intensive, but many are extensive. Breeds such as Luing that we helped pioneer and continue to breed are designed to out-winter.
Most don’t understand the difference between dairy beef and suckler herds. That’s as much the fault of the farming industry as anyone’s.
And the landscape has been man made for many centuries.
bnseven said:
I have gone a little "good life" in respect of beef, we keep two dexters, they run out all year and we get a new steer once a year and the older of the three then goes to slaughter. I get a freezer full of grass fed extensively reared quality beef for about £600 all in. Its not the cost saving you notice its the taste!
I know not everyone can do it but saves me a lot of mowing and strimming and I like seeing them about. Makes a huge difference if you have the space and facilities
We do similar, but outsourced it to the local farm. They keep a herd on the fields next door to us and occasionally a few get the chop. The buggiest “non-sustainable” bit is the 60 miles they have to be driven for slaughter. It would be better all round if I could stick a .308 in the back of their heads. I know not everyone can do it but saves me a lot of mowing and strimming and I like seeing them about. Makes a huge difference if you have the space and facilities
Other neighbour keeps pigs at the bottom of the garden. We eat a pig a year.
I think most of the commercial beef issues originate from the US, where they keep cows on “feedlots” which are just big fields stocked to a crazy density. The cows eat no grass, they eat pellets.
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