University bans all beef from campus...........

[Agammemnon]

biggbn said:

My physical and mental health improved hugely when I gave up meat and dairy.

Not talking about you specifically:

When people give up meat/dairy/whatever it's often as part of some health epiphany where they also lose weight, go to the gym more often, stop eating junk, give up smoking, etc.

The benefits might be due to giving up meat but might equally be due to other lifestyle changes following the epiphany.

[bodhi]

Zirconia said:

I thought beef was one of your five a day?

Not sure about beef - bacon definitely is.

And cheese.

[otolith]

biggbn said:

otolith said:

The same way that giving up anything that gives you pleasure is - same as giving up music or film or flowers or driving or novels or any of the other stuff people love that isn't strictly necessary for life.

My physical and mental health improved hugely when I gave up meat and dairy. Guess such a holistic statement is inacurate?

You chose to do that, though. I would quite happily give up musical theatre, romcoms, football and jogging. For other people, losing those things would degrade their enjoyment of life. I would almost certainly be healthier if I gave up wine and beer but I would enjoy life less. The pleasure of eating is an important part of quality of life for many people, and for many people, certainly for me, veg*an food is simply not as nice.

[garagewidow]

catso said:

glazbagun said:

Beef production requires a lot of water compared to almost any other meat

Are we running out then?

Yes,it is being stored out of reach in mobile biped organisms.

[Murph7355]

El stovey said:

....
Obviously if celebrities are lecturing others about their lifestyle whilst doing the same then that’s hypocritical and wrong but just because they’re flying or taking a private jet, they still might be doing more good than harm....

How to kill your argument in one paragraph

The point of them attending these conferences is either to lecture others/convince them of the error in their ways... Or to preach to the converted.

The former, as you note, is hypocritical. The latter doesn't need to be done (certainly not by private jet ).

There may be an argument to note that maybe they persuade others to convert via their private plane actions...but that's unlikely to be provable (unlikely full stop!).

As for jackfruit... Are the models on greenness complex (ie real) enough? And do they even exist for these things? I suspect not in both cases.

I think people are getting cheesed off with being led by the nose - petrol is demonised in favour of diesel. Diesel is even worse so let's favour electric. Where is all the electricity going to come from? And what cost millions of huge battery packs each year in a decade's time?

Veganism's the in thing. Tomorrow it'll be something else (probably when we all realise jackfruit is carcinogenic, farmed by 5yr olds in sweatshops, causes huge deforestation and costs 1000kg of carbon for every ton of fruit ).

All the while we ignore the elephant in the room - overpopulation. Everything else is skimming the surface.

[Oakey]

El stovey said:

I don’t really know what jackfruit are but I agree with your point,

We always hear this argument on PH, that if some thing is considered to bad for the environment and then an alternative is found, the alternatives are completely dismissed due to their own influence on the environment, even if it is much less.

It’s the same with celebrities flying to a climate meeting or that Norwegian girl going by boat to America. Everyone’s going on about whether her boat is made of lentils or whether celebrities are flying private jets. Sure what they’re doing is also bad but the net gain may be good for the environment if they raise money or spread awareness or if fruit from Thailand carried by air is less bad than meat overall etc.

Obviously if celebrities are lecturing others about their lifestyle whilst doing the same then that’s hypocritical and wrong but just because they’re flying or taking a private jet, they still might be doing more good than harm. Assuming you agree with the science etc.

Once we've weaned everyone off fossil fuels and stopped everyone eating meat, the environmentalists will focus their attention on your industry and make us all stop flying.

[matrignano]

grumbledoak said:

And we should eat food produced locally, not food grown wherever it is cheapest and flown around the world for maximum profit. Geography and the seasons will dictate which crops or animals we grow.

I popped to Tesco at lunch and was quite shocked that their apples mostly came from South Africa and... freaking New Zealand!!!
£2 for a bunch of apples that were literally flown in from the other side of the planet.
Madness

[Zirconia]

bodhi said:

Zirconia said:

I thought beef was one of your five a day?

Not sure about beef - bacon definitely is.

And cheese.

Cows eat grass. We eat all that grass via cow. Obvious I thought.

[biggbn]

Agammemnon said:

Not talking about you specifically:

When people give up meat/dairy/whatever it's often as part of some health epiphany where they also lose weight, go to the gym more often, stop eating junk, give up smoking, etc.

The benefits might be due to giving up meat but might equally be due to other lifestyle changes following the epiphany.

For me it was a simple choice, I can't kill an animal and will not ask others to do so for me, and I was horrified at some of the conditions animals were reared in. I think it is wrong to say it is a degradation of living standards, am a 124 kg weightlifter and I love my food, still do!! The overall feeling of well-being I have I attribute to mental factors mostly, possibly placebo, who knows? But it is tangible, placebo or not. A vegetarian or vegan might argue that you are degrading your living standards by eating meat!! (I certainly would not, each to their own I say, enjoy what you like)!!

[bodhi]

Zirconia said:

bodhi said:

Zirconia said:

I thought beef was one of your five a day?

Not sure about beef - bacon definitely is.

And cheese.

Cows eat grass. We eat all that grass via cow. Obvious I thought.

I wasn't 100% sure if grass was counted as a vegetable, but as it is, all that's needed is a Bacon Double Cheeseburger and you're more than halfway there.

Which is handy, as that's what I had for lunch.

[mikiec]

biggbn said:

For me it was a simple choice, I can't kill an animal and will not ask others to do so for me, and I was horrified at some of the conditions animals were reared in. I think it is wrong to say it is a degradation of living standards, am a 124 kg weightlifter and I love my food, still do!! The overall feeling of well-being I have I attribute to mental factors mostly, possibly placebo, who knows? But it is tangible, placebo or not. A vegetarian or vegan might argue that you are degrading your living standards by eating meat!! (I certainly would not, each to their own I say, enjoy what you like)!!

This is a pretty flawed view IMO, being vegan/vegetarian does not prevent animal harm:
https://www.independent.co.uk/environment/songbird...

paper concluding an omnivore diet causes less harm than vegan:
https://fewd.univie.ac.at/fileadmin/user_upload/in...

You’re far better to ethically source your food then jump on a meat is murder bandwagon.

[andy_s]

Murph7355 said:

El stovey said:

....
Obviously if celebrities are lecturing others about their lifestyle whilst doing the same then that’s hypocritical and wrong but just because they’re flying or taking a private jet, they still might be doing more good than harm....

How to kill your argument in one paragraph

The point of them attending these conferences is either to lecture others/convince them of the error in their ways... Or to preach to the converted.

The former, as you note, is hypocritical. The latter doesn't need to be done (certainly not by private jet ).

For me it's not the surface hypocrisy of using planes while telling people not to, it's more that they do it because it's the only sensible way to get a global meeting together but ignore and deny that the same applies to almost everyone else using a plane - they know it yet chose to wilfully ignore it, and this is the whole situation in microcosm.

[Mothersruin]

bodhi said:

Zirconia said:

I thought beef was one of your five a day?

Not sure about beef - bacon definitely is.

And cheese.

Mayonnaise is a superfood.

[Baby Shark doo doo doo doo]

gooner1 said:

Good news for badgers though, maybe.

Badger burgers

McBadger meal
KFB
Badger King

Any EU grants for badger farming? Are they milkable?

[Baby Shark doo doo doo doo]

Oakey said:

Once we've weaned everyone off fossil fuels and stopped everyone eating meat, the environmentalists will focus their attention on your industry and make us all stop flying.

I doubt it. How will the environmentalists fly around the globe to attend climate conferences and go on holidays? They’re generally from wealthy backgrounds, but not private jet wealthy.

[SamR380]

mikiec said:

being vegan/vegetarian does not prevent animal harm

This is a pretty flawed view IMO.

[biggbn]

mikiec said:

This is a pretty flawed view IMO, being vegan/vegetarian does not prevent animal harm:
https://www.independent.co.uk/environment/songbird...

paper concluding an omnivore diet causes less harm than vegan:
https://fewd.univie.ac.at/fileadmin/user_upload/in...

You’re far better to ethically source your food then jump on a meat is murder bandwagon.

Did you read my post? I could not kill an animal and will not ask someone to do it for me. Nor will I enable the conditions certain animals are kept in, chicken etc being a prime example. The end of my post says I have no problem with others who eat meat, each to their own..why would you try to belittle my choices? I have hardly jumped on a bandwagon brother man. I eat my diet for entirely selfish reasons. It makes me feel better. Am sure putting it like that will make it much more understandable for many on here!!

It must say I do find your statement fairly incredulous. If I don't eat meat or dairy I have prevented harm to the animals who would have died for me during my lifetime? And, at the risk of tub thumping, I am not vegan nor likely to be in the future but who knows. I'm not saying my way is right, but it's right for me

Edited by biggbn on Tuesday 13th August 17:07

[anonymous-user]

Oakey said:

Once we've weaned everyone off fossil fuels and stopped everyone eating meat, the environmentalists will focus their attention on your industry and make us all stop flying.

If everyone’s weaned off fossil fuels there won’t be any flying unless significant advances are made in technology.

Airlines would absolutely love electric (or more likely hybrid at first), aircraft.

We can only operate what’s available though.

[anonymous-user]

Baby Shark doo doo doo doo said:

Oakey said:

Once we've weaned everyone off fossil fuels and stopped everyone eating meat, the environmentalists will focus their attention on your industry and make us all stop flying.

I doubt it. How will the environmentalists fly around the globe to attend climate conferences and go on holidays? They’re generally from wealthy backgrounds, but not private jet wealthy.

Again though, like the fruit from Thailand instead of meat, the argument is that although they admit they’re doing harm with the flight, they’re doing more good overall with whatever they’re doing in the conference.

Obviously not everyone agrees with this view but that’s why it happens. Same with celebrities, they justify the flight by the good they think they’re doing overall with raising the profile of causes or raising funding or whatever.

[turbobloke]

El stovey said:

Baby Shark doo doo doo doo said:

Oakey said:

Once we've weaned everyone off fossil fuels and stopped everyone eating meat, the environmentalists will focus their attention on your industry and make us all stop flying.

I doubt it. How will the environmentalists fly around the globe to attend climate conferences and go on holidays? They’re generally from wealthy backgrounds, but not private jet wealthy.

Again though, like the fruit from Thailand instead of meat, the argument is that although they admit they’re doing harm with the flight, they’re doing more good overall with whatever they’re doing in the conference.

Obviously not everyone agrees with this view but that’s why it happens. Same with celebrities, they justify the flight by the good they think they’re doing overall with raising the profile of causes or raising funding or whatever.

Yes indeed, they're deluded individuals.